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Immeasurable speed characters updating second round

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Guess I'll repost my D&D thing
This is his justification


Thanatos was capable of reacting to the PC's time traveling hundreds of years into the past because his physical avatar saw them there, so to me it seems rather clear cut speed wise.
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DarkDragonMedeus said:
I looked up the thread for Estark's Immeasurable speed ratings, and I personally think it doesn't qualify. All I saw was "Transcend Time and Space" and statements about them being unaffected by space and time. And that his attacks transcend time and space. I can see both space-time manipulation and great resistance to it, but not Immeasurable speed. And it contradicts DQ IV cast being effected by time, or even Necrosaro/Deathpizarro who is stronger than Estark being unable to save his girlfriend from a couple of bandits.
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That seems fair, and for replacement speeds I think MHS would be good for now since the verse has quite a few MHS feats.
 
But isn't that scaling only possible if you scale DQ 1-8 bosses from their legacy versions who fought the post game DQ 9 protag?

Also isn't DQ 11's MFTL+ feat only scalable to Cetecea and Zoom?
 
The reasoning for alduin is also on his profile already

unbound by the concept of linear time and exists outside of it, living in the spaces between Kalpas. Unaffected by Dragon Breaks. Capable of literally flying through the currents of time, and traveling from Nirn to Sovngarde with sheer speed
 
Mr.Cinos15 said:
But isn't that scaling only possible if you scale DQ 1-8 bosses from their legacy versions who fought the post game DQ 9 protag?

Also isn't DQ 11's MFTL+ feat only scalable to Cetecea and Zoom?
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Hence why I said, the absolute god tiers should only scale to MFTL+ such as Nokturnus (the most powerful character in the franchise bar none, so scales above Corvus) and The Goddess (whose superior to Celestria) plus The Goddess already has a possibly omnipresent rating.

The scaling with the legacy bosses is a whole other can of worms I rather not open (for the time being).

Anyway we should probably take this discussion elsewhere to avoid clogging up this thread.
 
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I'm not sure how we are suppose to revise this. A few years ago, I always assume to be considered immeasurable in terms of speed, you have to be able to move despite time not existing. But I've seen so many characters who have similar situations such as some of the Blazblue character (I could be wrong. This is a very complex verse despite having only a select few games.) but almost none of them have this rating. It's admittedly confusing for me.....
 
Moving when Time doesn't exist is a Timeless Void, which used to be Infinite Speed, but it's no longer even that and it has never had any relation to Immeasurable.

The way I understand Immeasurable is that its this, though the easily moving through Time part is really only supporting evidence, because it's hard to tell when it's Immeasurable and when its just Time Travel. Characters like the Blazblue ones don't have it because their moving through Time through movement is limited to only a certain realm and isn't Immeasurable speed.
SmartSelect_20201123-085024_Brave.jpg
 
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Everything12 is correct.

I still need considerable help with this thread from our staff and experienced members.
 
Antvasima said:
Also, it seems like Superboy Prime has an immeasurable speed rating by scaling from the Time Trapper, even though his physical manifestation did not display anything remotely approaching this level.
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He flew on par with Bart running who absorbed the Speed Force into him, the thing that keeps all of time moving.

Could be an outlier but saying he doesn’t have scaling on this level at all is false.
 
Okay, but then that should be mentioned in his profile page.
 
The scaling itself is. Speed Force absorbed Bart just doesn’t have immeasurable speed on the wiki since he doesn’t have a page thus no discussion took place and deciding what is consistent for Superboy is quite a task so it should be CRT’ed later. That said why would being a sentient timeline not be valid proof for immeasurable speed anymore?
 
I should probably elaborate on why Wally has/should have immeasurable speed for running through time:

There are 4 main feats/statements: Wally outran Black Flash, a manifestation of death to the end of the universe where even death ceases to exist on a conceptual level.

Every time a speedster enters the time stream, they break the time barrier and bounce off of the edge of the speed force, into the time stream and in Wally’s case he can move along it however he wants without external help.

Wally and Barry chased Orion’s bullet through time, while being chased by Black Racer, a manifestation of death (of the New Gods, higher dimensional beings, including Black Racer himself, this is probably an avatar that’s chasing them tho), and into Darkseid’s singularity which was collapsing infinite universes.

Barry has apparently stated he can run faster than time, I have not yet seen this scan tho so I can’t elaborate.

I think at least one of these feats could be proof for immeasurable.

Note: Black Flash’s and Black Racer’s speed in the universe is very likely finite so I don’t know if them being an aspect of death changes much.

Wally stating they are approaching light speed in the time-traveling bullet chase in Final Crisis isn’t an anti-feat since light speed is described as a speedster’s terminal velocity, as in if they go above it, they could enter the Speed Force. However The Speed Force Wall is known to denizens of the orrery as the speed of light (which I’m pretty sure implies it’s a speed limit for higher dimensional beings who have immeasurable speed) and Jay Garrick also states even death can’t go faster than the speed of light which could possibly be referencing the higher-dimensional true form of Black Racer as well (after all, Black Racer kills higher-dimensional beings all the time IIRC). So Barry and Wally outpacing light speed in this particular issue is quite the feat (since going MFTL+ in DC usually ignores light speed).

Breaking the time barrier and almost accessing the Speed Force could be a massively beter feat than portrayed here since the Speed Force is very likely 1-A during most of DC’s cosmology (DC’s cosmological size probably varies between the years but the SF should still be higher-dimensional during all of it’s cosmology). At the same time this could lead to some contradictions with Wally’s feat of accessing the 4th dimension and what not so consider this a work in progress.

Sources are in this blog under time travel and speed categories: http://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2020/09/character-analysis-wally-west-unaltered.html?m=1
 
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Greenshifter said:
That said why would being a sentient timeline not be valid proof for immeasurable speed anymore?
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Because I did not think that the physical manifestation of that timeline, i.e. SBP, ever had demonstrated immeasurable speed in this story.
 
 
@Shadowbokunohero probably needs to be contacted as well as I'm pretty sure they are the only active Supporter of Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo, and the feats gave for Immeasurable seem sort of hard to understand without context. Especially, as from what little I know of the Verse it's a parody that has little to no restraint or logic in what the characters do.
 
If you're asking me if Wally/Barry have Immeasurable speed when going all out, then sure. They break the time barrier and can move forewords or backwards in time.

Normal Superboy Prime however, is not immeasurable nor should he be rated as such.
 
Perceiving all time all at once is more so Cosmic Awareness; perception =/= speed. I character also needs to be able to physically react it to demonstrate it. Also, just because an attack is Omnipresent across time, doesn't mean it's omnipresent across space.

Agreed with Qawsed regarding Superboy.
 
Qawsedf and Medeus make sense to me.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
If you're asking me if Wally/Barry have Immeasurable speed when going all out, then sure. They break the time barrier and can move forewords or backwards in time.

Normal Superboy Prime however, is not immeasurable nor should he be rated as such.
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So we should add this justification to Post-Crisis Barry’s and Wally’s page as well as update Rebirth and probably New 52 Barry’s page with immeasurable speed when running through time (and Hypertime).

Superboy Prime’s speed rating in his 2-C key should probably be discussed somewhere else since he usually gets blitzed by speedsters (but not always and he should get more keys tbh). His 2-B key gets nigh-omnipresent in his timeline and probably MFTL+ outside?
 
Sonic being an Immeasurable would be an outlier anyway since it's literally like the only feat on that level, and nothing else on par/
 
Yeah, Solaris should have Omnipresent not Immeasurable and the fact that the three Hedgehogs had to attack from three different points of time kinda acts as an Anti-feat.
 
Are time paradoxes a thing in Sonic? Otherwise existing in three different points in time (that do not even qualify as Nigh Omnipresence) doesn't qualify as Acausal.
 
Even then, it should be more like temporal or semi omnipresence I guess. Solaris himself doesn't even appear Omnipresent when we see him fight.
 
What are you all even saying? There was no time paradox, nor there was outliers or whatever

I don't really have the time right now to argue this, but there was only a rift which was outside of the area Solaris was fighting

Also Solaris was omnipresent towards all time, not just time periods, the feat in question is that the hogs can dodge and react to the same Solaris even though they all are in different places in time, the same attack can hit all of them, which is a very clear immesurable speed feat
 
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