Ikki's fights, skills and character.

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok so to avoid turning every thread into an "Ikki is far too skilled and it's dumb" with arguments for and against. Here is a F&G board for this very reason, just so we don't derail other threads. You can argue to your hearts content.


Bring it o

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

FINALLY

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Before this becomes a shitstorm of arguments cal. Im wondering. Any reason you didn't continue the Rakudai Light novel?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

There was another anime similar to this I forgot

 

[Schnee_One]

Where would I start after watching the anime?

 

[DMUA]

Before this becomes a shitstorm of arguments cal. Im wondering. Any reason you didn't continue the Rakudai Light novel?

Because it's garbage

/thread

 

[Agnaa]

Just a reminder to everyone, if you're tired of reading awful run of the mill light novels like Rakudai, why don't you give some masterpieces like Monogatari and Zaregoto a shot?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Just waiting for Ikki to fight Amane's God of Fate who transcends time and space and defeats her with pure skill

 

[Agnaa]

There was another anime similar to this I forgot

Asterisk War aired at the exact same time, and they both gained notoriety because they were both scarily similar and both pretty shit, although Rakudai was significantly better.

 

[DMUA]

Alternatively stop being weaboos and read Worm

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Isnt that the one where girl gets trapped in a locker by bullies and has a bunch of gross stuff thrown on her turning her into bug girl?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Where would I start after watching the anime?

Volume 4. The adaptation is good so it won't feel outta place. The novel gives more info on his skills and some other stuff but rather negligible. So start from volume 4 and you're cool.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Rakudai is acually an action packed, intense battle manga with a protagonist with the best character development I've read, a unique power system and skill feats that passively annoy a whole community.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Just waiting for Ikki to fight Amane's God of Fate who transcends time and space and defeats her with pure skill

I have no doubt in my mind this will happe

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Oof, guess I have no choice but to add it to my to wach list or both.

 

[Ionliosite]

Asterisk War aired at the exact same time, and they both gained notoriety because they were both scarily similar and both pretty shit, although Rakudai was significantly better.

Asterisk got a second season and Rakudai didn't, I'm still in pain for that.

 

[DMUA]

Isnt that the one where girl gets trapped in a locker by bullies and has a bunch of gross stuff thrown on her turning her into bug girl?

Yes

And you will remember the name Skitter because the stuff she does, through pure thinking and guts, is crazy when you have her reminiscing about it in the later chapters. Not to mention she's the epidome of teenage angst and anger, both of which make her among my favorite characters.

Unlike certain characters who have the entire school hate them because like, the plot says so, only for him to not really care and continue being a nice dude to everyone

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Watched episode twelve....The sister. shes not on for that long but...am I suppsosed to be getting odd vibes from her? Or is that just me knowing to much anime....

Moving on it was...Ok I guess? He managed to win in a single strike though and while artistically done....What was I supposed to pull from that? He pulled/made a powerful technique that boosted him to the point he could get off his single strike.

The story/characters didn't seem to bad but they didn't seem special either. Ikki's had a tough life and is at the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to others prespective of him due to his own power. Why should I care about this underdog that keeps on pulling victory from the jaws of defeat? The literal plot device I told you I hated was that episode, he pulled out a win when he should have lost....

 

[Ionliosite]

Ikki won because he is so skilled that is dumb.

 

[DMUA]

Watched episode twelve....The sister. shes not on for that long but...am I suppsosed to be getting odd vibes from her? Or is that just me knowing to much anime....

The book and manga has that "anime" to it, at the very least. If they censored it in the anime, I'll instantly call it the better adaption for sure

Also yeah, Ikki supposedly is supposed to be an underdog because he lacks magic but

his lol skill lets him steamroll way too many people for that to be believable

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

No he won because he created a technique at the last moment to overcome his opponent, he had tons of disadvantages, his enemy had a powerful technique of her own, he was injured while she was in her prime, logically speaking he should have lost but he didn't... You know the thing I said I hated on deep intrinsic level.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

No he won because he created a technique at the last moment to overcome his opponent, he had tons of disadvatages, his enemy had a powerful technique of her own, he was injured while she was in her prime, logically speaking he should have lost but he didn't...

Because he managed to use skill yes that is just skill that allows him to use magic in less time.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Anime logic.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Ahuh and that makes him beating a suprior opponent while injured good how? Earl that is the exact thing I said I hated characters pulling victory when they should logically loose. He was injured, she was in her prime, she was strogner/more powerful. He won because he created a brand new technique to boost him to victory. again the thing I said I despised? Victory being acheived despite logic dictating otherwise?

 

[PsychoWarper]

Ikki seems like an underdog that rekts many of his opponents and those he struggles against hes either holding back for some reason or is weaker then and at the last moment gains some new power/skill and wins.

Now I could definitely be wrong and im not super knowledgeable, thats just what ive gotten from what ive seen and heard.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ikki's not an underdog. He was an underdog. Ikki's just supposed to represent hard work. Whereas his rival, stella, is the peak of natural born talent. That's the point. Not an underdog that beats ppl and a gal who fawns over him

@pen

That's just him doing his stuff. He didn't get a boost from the gods, he did it on his own. Even that boost is from himself. So technically touka never was stronger to begin with she was just believed to be

 

[DMUA]

Let me give you an idea of the kind of character Ikki is

One time, late at night, in the Angry section of the VSBWRP channel

I went into an entire shpeal about how Kirito is a character you can get behind and Ikki is just a cardboard cutout that can hold a knife effectively

I talked about how Kirito actually is somewhat hindered by his unwillingness to kill another person, and how shows weakness in the PTSD he experiences in light of killing members of laughing coffin, which is a group of serial killers that no rational person would allow to live. This ideology nearly costs him his one good chance to kill the big bad of Alicization, even if it turned out fine anyways.

In fact, Kirito is initially hated because he's considered a Beater, a beta tester that was just screwing everyone over to get an advantage, something that's illogical, but believable as far as someone finding a scapegoat for their problems, forcing Kirito to just be a loner and swallow the accusation. This does go away as he spends his time just doing good stuff and leveling up, but it's a challenge he has to come to terms with.

Then you have Ikki and ughhhh

I guess work hard equal character?

Despite the fact that Rock Lee does that in a more endearing, badass, and cruelly realistic way that makes you consider him the protagonist for a time, as he fought tooth and nail against Gaara and eventually lost, simply because his own aptitude to work hard couldn't match up to the raw talent Gaara had? When has Ikki had to deal with that aspect of his so called hard work? When has he truly lost something and had to deal with that, simply because life said "Screw you" and stuck to it beyond him hitting a bag a few times?

When was Ikki really, harshly, and visibly knocked down, only for him to get up, spit the blood from his mouth, and overcome a real challenge he faces?

Or did he outskill that, too?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The point is, ikki's backstory is exactly that. Him getting beat up by just about everyone in unfair ways. What we see is the end goal. Or let's say the part where he has actually grown a fair amount.

Also that rock lee part wasn't unfairness it was just him not being good enough. Gai, who is just Lee but better trashed a God tier.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Yes he pulled a boost from himself to overwhelm his superior oppoenent who was uninjured...I don't think you grasp why I dislike this scene it doesn't matter where the power/strength comes from just the fact he managed to pull it out at just the right time to snatch victory from an assured defeat.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

I went in for the OPness though, I though hating him was a meme. Anyways, Ikki? Kirito? I recommend reading EER that has an MC that is old enough for his skill level as both their ages combined is less than one tenth of his age. That is if overpowered/BS skill level bothers you too much

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

You automatically lost, DMUA. Worm is just the highest level of weebery possible hidden in plain sight

But the willingness of Wildbow to do rather wild things and stick to them to push forward with his story is... I don't know, it adds a sort of realism edge that doesn't infringe on narrative causality to the level that it feels he's just trying to be gritty and more just, realistic. It adds something I can't describe but like.

As for Rakudai, it is enjoyable. I can't deny that but in a way, that's all I can say. There's nothing quite... wrong it is doing, but it also feels like there's nothing quite right. Nothing it nailed so good if just sticks to me.

Also, DMUA, tell me you've checked SAO Progressive or I'll be sad-erer.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yes he pulled a boost from himself to overwhelm his superior oppoenent who was uninjured...I don't think you grasp why I dislike this scene it doesn't matter where the power/strength comes from just the fact he managed to pull it out at just the right time to snatch victory from an assured defeat.

Just at the right time cus that's when he needed it. That's when he needed to try that. You dont improve when sleeping you improve when you face tough situations.

 

[DMUA]

Also, DMUA, tell me you've checked SAO Progressive or I'll be sad-erer.

I haven't really dived into progressive but I do generally know about it and how it improves on the original drastically in several areas

Also Argo is easily the best character

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I do believe Pen means he feels like he suddenly took a leap across a chasm that really didn't look like he could leap it, instead of a build up that made it sound difficult and like it could totally fail but that there was a sliver of a chance and something he could still try. Or like the sudden thing that suddenly let him leap felt organic, like a succession of events that you just look at and you go "okay that makes sense and I could see it happening".

Moment comes, he gets the thing, now everything is done. That sort of feeling?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

And Penn stop this. You're talking blindly when literally everyone who has watched it says it's enjoyable. Watch the darned series stop watching clips xD

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

I don't mind opness its people winning fights that logically the opponent should win. It would be like climb training hard and somehow managing to kill ainz. Or any tale about heros going against ancient powerful evil and managing to win because...Their the main character lol, if your outmatched in strength, power, and ability you should lose.

You don't get a massive boost in strength as your about to be stabbed. You don't suddenly manage to create a technique to get a burst of strength/speed because you need it. I don't like it earl, he should have lost but he didn't because he's ikki and he is skilled. Its the exact writing device I hate, know what would have made that scene perfect for me earl?

He boost but his opponent still manages to dodge, all his hard work wasn't enough to overcome the gap. That would have hooked me, seeing ikki loose because he's injured and his oppoenent is prepared/stronger.

I watched episode twelve like you told me...didn't see anything really gripping.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

So you enjoy the objectively superior information broker?

What a culturally refined Chad ├▓uó

 

[Agnaa]

Just at the right time cus that's when he needed it. That's when he needed to try that. You dont improve when sleeping you improve when you face tough situations.

You don't pull techniques out of your ass just because you face a tough situation.

You are correct that you do improve, but suddenly developing new techniques is a narrative asspull.

Katanagatari handled this much better, having Shichika face a tough situation that he can't yet overcome, so he trains and develops new techniques before trying again. Or he develops new skills just because, and then tests out their use in tough battle situations, sometimes working, sometimes not working.

 

[PsychoWarper]

I watched the entire Anime, thought Ikki was a bad character and still do, but outside Ikki I didnt mind the series and enjoyed multiple characters from it, its just imo Ikki isnt a good character.

 

[DMUA]

So you enjoy the objectively superior information broker?

What a culturally refined Chad ├▓uó

I'll have you know as much mustache twirl

That said, gripping victory by the balls out of nowhere isn't that bad, if you execute it well

JoJo has a ton of twists and turns from sheer luck and magical levels of foresight from it's characters, yet it rolls with it and keeps you guessing about the direction of the fight. Being able to surprise your audience in a way they can be pleased by is a fairly key element of a fight scene, aside from character drive and the relevance it has to the plot.

For that reason, I'll leave the fights themselves alone. Ikki's character, though....