idek at this point man, i'm just bored (Tset vs Zain Vaerpath)

[Hl3_or_bust]

Tset vs Zain Vaerpath
>High 8-C Tset, Act I Zain

>Speed Equalized

yes i am aware of the tier difference n i n g e

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

before anything, how does Tset cotuner zain's resurrection

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

How good is his self-res exactly? It's mentioned but i'm fairly certain it's not explained

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Ok so it's feasible to just kill Zain enough for the type 4 to stop working and he resists the basically passive mind hax that Tset has by attacking at all, although me and Perp are still working out if Zain can even see Tset before he attacks 1-2 times.

 

[ThePerpetual]

If he oofs, he'll come back up via the Tiphareth. It took a bit to puzzle out what the timeframe should be, but I eventually figured about an hour or few later is about right. In theory, since it doesn't really reset his mental fatigue levels/he isn't immune to the pain of each death, he can just be exhausted to the point of giving up (such is what almost happened with Tessera), but that also took lots of kills, so I don't anticipate that being likely?

Since it was asked, I'm pretty sure he resists most general things Tset has going by the feats listed for him (ex. the passive "swordplay so good it mindhaxes viewers into being awestruck.") Even garden-variety Archetype Armiger wielders can contend with Qliphoth able to hax entire superstores of people at once, and the Act I cast is a few dozen times that (survived the Banefall that would dissolve their self in a couple of seconds for over a minute.)

As for how good Act I cast's Senses are... eh? I mean, I never really established a "strength" to them, they just kind of can see essences (minds/souls), Archetypes if they crystallize in one spot (generally after something with an Armiger's killed), and so forth for as far as they can see normally. If someone has an ability that specifically obscures them, it'd just probably work akin to something that escapes ordinary sight: it's less something that's active for someone with an Archetype Armiger than it is just an intrinsic aspect of their being.

This is an especially weird match since

• A: Tset dies if he's so much as lightly tapped once, and if Zain has trouble hitting Tset directly he might start trying to dismantle the environment (Ex. Great Wind aimed at the ground itself to throw everything upward in a big area) to get the chip damage in over time that way (which in this case means just death, since this AP disparity's so immense that chip damage isn't a thing.
• B: Tset's attacks all ignore durability, and from what I understand he spams the hell out of wind blades (one of Zain's elemental weaknesses), so he's going to do big damage himself I can only imagine.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

It's worth noting that Tset should be able to copy Zain's sword through Unlimited Blade Works, which also gives him Zain's stats when he's using that sword. Additionally, he can use Phantom Form Intetsu just extend his sword into Zain's head to knock him out if it comes to that, although something like that is ooc unless he realizes that Zain isn't going to stop coming back.

 

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[ThePerpetual]

So, from I understand, UBW means that Tset can just kind of have Low 7-B+ AP and Dura on his own, if he uses it? Also, how does Phantom Form Intetsu work?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

UBW is kinda weird, but if he copies Zain's sword and uses then yes, he becomes Low 7-B. It directly attacks stamina, meaning that if it hit an arm, the arm would go completely limb for an indeterminate amount of time, or if it hit the head you would be knocked out.

 

[ThePerpetual]

So, Zain wouldn't even one-shot him unless he gets his hit to land, before that happens, probably at least. How quick is he to pull UBW to use in-character, and how long does it last?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Not particularly, although with such a massive difference in strength he's probably a lot more open to the idea. I'm not sure how long Projections last, but it's enough to at the very least get some use out of them.

 

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[ThePerpetual]

Okay, so looking over Tset's page, a list of all of his general options and what would/wouldn't work well(?) on Zain probably:

- Ikki's Fate Manip.: Zain doesn't have a fate to target, nothing in Omega (the last universe, i.e. where most of the story happens) does.

- Ikki's Slashing of Concepts: Archetype Armiger wielders' selves are armored, inured to attacks against the Archetype by way of their connection to the Akashic Record and therefore resistant to attacks of this nature (i.e. literally every Qliphoth) quite heavily. (This is where the rest of the Archetype Armiger's resistances come from as well: their elemental affinities, their psyches and spirits, etc. are all extensions and aspects of the Self, the core that unites and directs it all.) TLDR: This wouldn't ignore durability, nor pass through any of his weapons seeing as they are saturated with his Archetype as well.

- Edelweiss' Swordplay: From the looks of it, its very similar to how Tessera's wind blade tomfoolery works, and he literally just got done fighting that at the end of Act I, so.

- Desperado Perception/Empathic Manip.: The standard Qliphoth have auras like this, on account of being what it is that they are.

- Fleur de Lys: I don't think a basic debuff attack is anything to stay too wary off, assuming it gets past the Ailment resist even.

- Zantou Gari: Chrono counters this, without requiring he cut the shoulder he'd be using to swing a sword with, so.

- Unlimited Blade Works: So, this is the big one, right? The one thing that basically single-handedly turns this match. I did some looking into, and discovered that the mechanics being Projection are essentially identical to Memoryform Creation/Dismissal. This leads me to believe that, since Gram is retroactively saturated with the False Envoy's Archetype and all manifestations of it (i.e. including his own "Projections", with the Florentine Combat Form for example: being one of his signature Combat Forms, I find it likely he'd be able to catch on eventually), I see no say that Zain couldn't simply dismiss memoryforms of 'his' own weapons, i.e. ones bound entirely to his own Self/Archetype.

Other things:

1: Zain's probably out-skilled, but by how much exactly? Tessera, whom he challenged sufficiently enough to fight seriously more or less from the get-go, had been fighting both in the Material Plane and the Yesod for essentially six continuous millennia prior as a part-time job, and even before that was considered at least competitive with the various Bruce Lees of her age. Obviously, he's not quite on that level at this point, but aside from his age somehow being in the trillions? I'd not be surprised if the gap wasn't as massive as initially imagined.

2: Tset doesn't seem to resist Time Stop, like, at all- if so, it's not listed on his page. Which, uh... yeah, Nephesh would probably just meme the fight if he's allowed to build up the energy to activate a True Self at all.

...also, from looking over by story notes again, I might be forced to run yet another revision, so AAAAAA

In combination with EWtRtW 5 probably not even being close to done with giving Tset some actual showings, uh

I think I'll get back to this in proper later

(Inb4 1-A everything-hax)

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Tset has base Ikki's stuff

as in, the stuff that's listed on his page

 

[ThePerpetual]

(...I am told Tset doesn't actually have those abilities of Ikki's. Must have missed some fine print somewhere.)

 

[ThePerpetual]

More things that I hear through the grapevine:

> Zantou Tari just makes him FTL, basically, so instant-win if allowed to use

> They might end up resisting Time Stop later?

This is all a rather large Oof for me tbh, I don't really even know what to make of this.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Fleur de Lys is a combo of mind manip, rather potent stat reduction, and paralysis inducement that is more or less passive due to being active during attacks.

Tset can just cut himself anywhere to activate Zantou Gari, although it needs to be rather grevious in order to activate the technique.

From what i remember, copying a weapon with UBW makes you it's owner, so something like that wouldn't affect it since it isn't Zains weapon anymore.

Most of Tset's skill is already plain on his page, but just to be clear:

• he is at least comparable to someone who can defend the Moon for 1500 years against an omnipresent god that hates her and where she lives
• Sabi Hakuhei is the most powerful and skilled one can even theoretically become through the use of Swordsmanship, to the point that he can perform blatantly supernatural feats on par with Ninpou, which is basically magic.
• Sasaki's three-pronged attacks were considered undodgable even to gods, which in Nasuverse had infinite-immeasurable speed, and function through messing with causality, being the perfect counter to Musashi's Nothingness, which turns the infinite to the finite. He has also long since surpassed what humans could possibly achieve.
• Ikki Kurogane does literally everything he does in his first key through skill and experience alone. That's all that really needs to be said.

Tset isn't a smurf. He also hasn't exactly had much time to fight and determine an opening move in-character, although he'd still follow what his predictive abilities tell him, which is literally everything that Zain will or even could possible do throughout the entire fight, down to individual cellular movements and thoughts.

 

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bumo

 

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[Moritzva]

Seems like a big oof for Zain.

I had a match for Zain, but a sudden tier jump ruined that. Whoops!

He could probably fight Cataclysm fellows.

 

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