-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Ichiban Ushiro no Daimaou CRT
- Thread starter Ionliosite
- Start date
- Status
- 15,920
- 2,693
- Thread starter
- #242
I think it is, and I was the one who wrote.GLHF22 said:
- 15,920
- 2,693
- Thread starter
- #244
He has shown me enough evidence that he has read the series and understands the cosmology and metafictional themes that fill the last 2 volumes (which is where ALL of the tier 1 stuff comes from) to trust his word. Otherwise, he wouldn't had been able to write the cosmology in such a way that uses the exact same words the novel does.
- 3,792
- 209
I mean if he just post the scan i will not discuss this any further, to understand cosmology indeed you have to read the whole series but to confirm your understanding on the cosmology is correct, you must give your evidence along with your explanation.
If he give you enough the evidence then show the evidence here, thats what i ask from the beginning.
If he give you enough the evidence then show the evidence here, thats what i ask from the beginning.
- 175
- 10
@GLHF22
Cosmology in Daimaou is very confusing for those who only read through the speakers, each chapter only reminds a little about the general cosmology, mainly the last 2 volume explain the structure of the universe, you can read the explanation and scan that I have posted above.
Cosmology in Daimaou is very confusing for those who only read through the speakers, each chapter only reminds a little about the general cosmology, mainly the last 2 volume explain the structure of the universe, you can read the explanation and scan that I have posted above.
- 15,920
- 2,693
- Thread starter
- #247
Daimaou cosmology is confusing because such a low quality author clearly doesn't understand the full implications of what he's writting.
- 15,920
- 2,693
- Thread starter
- #249
That's fair.
Anyway, at this point I'm just waiting for @Matthew to write the AP justification for the storytellers' profile to be done with this.
Anyway, at this point I'm just waiting for @Matthew to write the AP justification for the storytellers' profile to be done with this.
- 32,358
- 20,298
I'll try to write something when I have the time.
- 15,920
- 2,693
- Thread starter
- #254
As I said before, we only need the AP for the storytellers and this would be done.
- 32,358
- 20,298
I forgot about this entirely, sorry.
- 32,358
- 20,298
As for Storyteller Akuto, well... I may be wrong in the details since it's been a month since I read Vol 12, but I would put something like that:
Attack Potency: Outerverse level (Resides in the empty void of nothingness outside the Afterlife, itself a realm devoid of space and time that exists above an infinite hierarchy of stories and storytellers where thoughts shape reality around one's self, having assimilated the Afterlife into himself and created / simulated all stories that could possibly exist in it.)
You should approach DT to fix innacuracies tho
Attack Potency: Outerverse level (Resides in the empty void of nothingness outside the Afterlife, itself a realm devoid of space and time that exists above an infinite hierarchy of stories and storytellers where thoughts shape reality around one's self, having assimilated the Afterlife into himself and created / simulated all stories that could possibly exist in it.)
You should approach DT to fix innacuracies tho
- 15,920
- 2,693
- Thread starter
- #260
Sweet! Also, Matt, do you think Akuto needs 2 Act 13 keys (one for before he folds the Afterlife and for after) or just one is ok?
- 175
- 10
matt is right, but it's the akuto key in the afterlife, you should add the akuto key when he opens all possibilities and contains all stages of the other archetypes and becomes one the resident in universe of Tloi and the key when akuto is a resident in anti-universe.
- 15,920
- 2,693
- Thread starter
- #262
Ok, Siperri agrees with the "we need one more Act 13 key idea".
- 175
- 10
Just to note that the universe of Tloi is a stage that exists outside the endless hierarchy of archetypes, only akuto and hiroshi (brave) are the residents there.
quote.
"Water. Carbonated water."
As soon as Hiroshi said that, the contents of the cup transformed into cold mineral water with bubbles inside.
"I see."
He drank the water and it refreshingly wet his throat.
"What does it feel like to be able to do anything?" he asked after taking a breath.
"It feels like arriving at the farthest reaches of biological pleasure," immediately replied Akuto.
Hiroshi smiled a bit.
"I've never felt that."
"No, you wouldn't have." Akuto smiled too. "But we stand on the same stage. We're probably the only ones who haven't become a concept."
"A concept?"
"You can't understand someone's personality just by looking at them, but now I can truly experience them. Even if other people's reactions are mechanical in nature, we have no way of determining it. What resides within me right now may be the countless personalities of all existing people."
"If a different object with the same name is placed in a box that only the individual can open, can conversation still be achieved?" asked Hiroshi. "If a foreign language dictionary has a sample greeting section and you communicate using that, can you still call it a conversation?"
Akuto looked amused.
"Yes. It definitely isn't like you to respond like that."
"While here, I am a synthesis of the concept of Brave," explained Hiroshi with a grin.
"I see. So a concept is a concept."
"I do understand what you're saying, though. The only ones given an incarnation in the Law of Identity's world are you and me. Wouldn't incarnation be the best term for being equal concepts before the creator? So in your world, the people inside are equally given an incarnation."
quote.
"Water. Carbonated water."
As soon as Hiroshi said that, the contents of the cup transformed into cold mineral water with bubbles inside.
"I see."
He drank the water and it refreshingly wet his throat.
"What does it feel like to be able to do anything?" he asked after taking a breath.
"It feels like arriving at the farthest reaches of biological pleasure," immediately replied Akuto.
Hiroshi smiled a bit.
"I've never felt that."
"No, you wouldn't have." Akuto smiled too. "But we stand on the same stage. We're probably the only ones who haven't become a concept."
"A concept?"
"You can't understand someone's personality just by looking at them, but now I can truly experience them. Even if other people's reactions are mechanical in nature, we have no way of determining it. What resides within me right now may be the countless personalities of all existing people."
"If a different object with the same name is placed in a box that only the individual can open, can conversation still be achieved?" asked Hiroshi. "If a foreign language dictionary has a sample greeting section and you communicate using that, can you still call it a conversation?"
Akuto looked amused.
"Yes. It definitely isn't like you to respond like that."
"While here, I am a synthesis of the concept of Brave," explained Hiroshi with a grin.
"I see. So a concept is a concept."
"I do understand what you're saying, though. The only ones given an incarnation in the Law of Identity's world are you and me. Wouldn't incarnation be the best term for being equal concepts before the creator? So in your world, the people inside are equally given an incarnation."
- 15,920
- 2,693
- Thread starter
- #264
Yeah, I agree both Akuto and Hiroshi/Bouichirou scale above the hierarchy of storytellers, as I have said many times before.
- 175
- 10
Anyone can be a storyteller, even residents of stories can create an endless hierarchy of storytellers, so avoid using that term for Gods/archetypes created stages of the universes and exist outside that spectrum.
- 15,920
- 2,693
- Thread starter
- #266
I personally call them Extra-universal Gods since that's the name they are mostly refered as, I'm calling them storytellers so everyone gets what I mean.
- 15,920
- 2,693
- Thread starter
- #267
Ok, since I want this concluded some day, what tier would this other key be? Low 1-A or just 1-A?
- 175
- 10
There is no such thing as low 1-A with akuto, if you ignore the information worlds simulated by computer gods, there is still a void (great network), where the worlds are simulated by the gods are just viruses floating in there.
Of course, that structure is still in the human world, the next stage in which the whole structure in the human world is inferior to a single-celled organism in a fictional layer in the next universe, and then is the infinite number of stages of the larger universes, which are the spectrum created by the gods.
and Tloi's incarnation is the one who will guide the stories and act as the ship to bring the creatures in it to evolve through each stage, the story with the highest stage in the universe of Tloi will be saved, creatures and incarnation of Tloi will go to the anti-universe and become inhabitants of True God.
I am really tired when you constantly ignore what I try to say.
Of course, that structure is still in the human world, the next stage in which the whole structure in the human world is inferior to a single-celled organism in a fictional layer in the next universe, and then is the infinite number of stages of the larger universes, which are the spectrum created by the gods.
and Tloi's incarnation is the one who will guide the stories and act as the ship to bring the creatures in it to evolve through each stage, the story with the highest stage in the universe of Tloi will be saved, creatures and incarnation of Tloi will go to the anti-universe and become inhabitants of True God.
I am really tired when you constantly ignore what I try to say.
- 15,920
- 2,693
- Thread starter
- #270
Well, if that key will just be 1-A with literally no difference from the next, then there's no point in making it to begin with.
- 175
- 10
@Lonliosite
This is the difference before and after that when Akuto opens up all possibilities.
•quote
For a while, the two of them were too shocked to speak, but Bouichirou finally agreed with Akuto.
"You and they are both universes. Perhaps we should refer to you as god universes. Before you released all of the world's possibilities, it may have been only you that was the same as them."
(...)
Opening up all possibilities may have been a mistake.
The space itself was finite and the characters were finite, but the combinations were infinite. Opening up the possibilities was not just a concept. It actually released the walls of the world that supposedly existed within Akuto.
This was similar to further universes being born within him.
The props used naturally extended beyond him.
In other words, even the extra-universal gods became possibilities in the story.
(..)
Hiroshi smiled a bit.
"I've never felt that."
"No, you wouldn't have." Akuto smiled too. "But we stand on the same stage.
(...)
"I see. So a concept is a concept."
"I do understand what you're saying, though. The only ones given an incarnation in the Law of Identity's world are you and me. Wouldn't incarnation be the best term for being equal concepts before the creator? So in your world, the people inside are equally given an incarnation."
(...)
The story of interference from outside the universe was centered on not perceiving the world as fictional. That was a story based on the assumption that one lived as only a single incarnation.
"I feel like I only came to understand myself once I saw the outside," agreed Akuto.
"But when you get down to it, even the extra-universal gods are fictional. They merely cannot distinguish between god, mankind, and ghost. Only once you inform the higher being and create an enclosure within a single universe can you make a clear distinction between the three. That allows you to understand who it is you are inside."
Akuto thought about Bouichirou's analysis.
"Okay. That means I need to think about how to respond to that higher being," said Akuto. "I don't just want to save the beings inside me. I want to save all the beings inside the Law of Identity's universe. I want to free them from the stories. That is my wish."
This shows that the archetypes are only part of akuto and there are creatures on a higher level than him in Tloi's universe, those creatures are only vaguely mentioned.
This is the difference before and after that when Akuto opens up all possibilities.
•quote
For a while, the two of them were too shocked to speak, but Bouichirou finally agreed with Akuto.
"You and they are both universes. Perhaps we should refer to you as god universes. Before you released all of the world's possibilities, it may have been only you that was the same as them."
(...)
Opening up all possibilities may have been a mistake.
The space itself was finite and the characters were finite, but the combinations were infinite. Opening up the possibilities was not just a concept. It actually released the walls of the world that supposedly existed within Akuto.
This was similar to further universes being born within him.
The props used naturally extended beyond him.
In other words, even the extra-universal gods became possibilities in the story.
(..)
Hiroshi smiled a bit.
"I've never felt that."
"No, you wouldn't have." Akuto smiled too. "But we stand on the same stage.
(...)
"I see. So a concept is a concept."
"I do understand what you're saying, though. The only ones given an incarnation in the Law of Identity's world are you and me. Wouldn't incarnation be the best term for being equal concepts before the creator? So in your world, the people inside are equally given an incarnation."
(...)
The story of interference from outside the universe was centered on not perceiving the world as fictional. That was a story based on the assumption that one lived as only a single incarnation.
"I feel like I only came to understand myself once I saw the outside," agreed Akuto.
"But when you get down to it, even the extra-universal gods are fictional. They merely cannot distinguish between god, mankind, and ghost. Only once you inform the higher being and create an enclosure within a single universe can you make a clear distinction between the three. That allows you to understand who it is you are inside."
Akuto thought about Bouichirou's analysis.
"Okay. That means I need to think about how to respond to that higher being," said Akuto. "I don't just want to save the beings inside me. I want to save all the beings inside the Law of Identity's universe. I want to free them from the stories. That is my wish."
This shows that the archetypes are only part of akuto and there are creatures on a higher level than him in Tloi's universe, those creatures are only vaguely mentioned.
- 15,920
- 2,693
- Thread starter
- #273
1-A Extra-universal Gods (scales to Akuto and Brave), High 1-A Void Body, High 1-A New LoI, and 0 TLoI. I have contacted DT twice, but he hasn't come.Antvasima said:
- 10,879
- 12,282
I wouldn't necessarily generalize all extra-universal gods to the same tier, but am fine with the suggested tiers for Akuto, Brave and TLOI.
So from my side this can be applied.
So from my side this can be applied.
- 15,920
- 2,693
- Thread starter
- #276
Of course I agree with that note of the EUGs, I think "Varies, up to 1-A" must be alright for them. On the other hand, Akuto and Brave 100% scale to the 1-A ones.
- 10,879
- 12,282
So, as to the justifications:
For Akuto's Act 13 key we take what Matthew posted.
For TLOI we do something like "Boundless (Transcends Sai Akuto by infinite levels of transcendence; It lies in its nature to be at the top of all hierarchies of stories regardless of scale)"?
Not sure what to put for the void body.
For Akuto's Act 13 key we take what Matthew posted.
For TLOI we do something like "Boundless (Transcends Sai Akuto by infinite levels of transcendence; It lies in its nature to be at the top of all hierarchies of stories regardless of scale)"?
Not sure what to put for the void body.
- 15,920
- 2,693
- Thread starter
- #279
Doesn't the current justification already imply the Void Body is outside any kind of hierarchy?
- 10,879
- 12,282
So we just keep "He was taken into The Law of Identity, and even from her own point of view he is no longer part of any story, but an independent resident of her Anti-Universe"?
Sure, we can just do that ┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬»
In which case we have everything to revise the profiles we have now, right?
Sure, we can just do that ┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬»
In which case we have everything to revise the profiles we have now, right?
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
