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I make a terrible but possibly fair match

Oh yeah, guess we better bring up what I had mentioned before to counter this.

If she either BFRs him into the mirror wise or tricks him into following her into the mirror wise, she wins. Kars lacks the necesary capabilties to properly navigate the mirror wise.

So here is how it goes.

1) Kars either goes for a fatal attack which fails to kill, at which point Ashen twitches her finger and his future is dead; or Ashen shoots first

2) D4C brings in another Kars, and she dives into the mirror wise

3) Kars follows her into the mirror wise with D4C. The only alternative is that Ashen fires off her supply of golden bullets until Kars follows her. He has no intel, and he is confident enough that he has no reason not to teleport after her.

4) Kars gets swallowed by an infinite see of eyes, a jungle of hands, or higher dimensional structure. Ashen wins
 
I was more responding to the issue of the clones. That being said, this fight takes place in The House. The House has fate. Even if he goes back in time to try and change it, the events will play out the same way with only minor differences. Kars can try as many times as he likes, but unless he can somehow escape The House, he is doomed to die over and over. Kars gets Homura'd kek
 
Only KQ (KQ Ultimate doesn't exist, btw) and D4CU can exist without him. KQ because it's not even his; D4CU because of it's hop.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
The House has fate. Even if he goes back in time to try and change it, the events will play out the same way with only minor differences.
Click to expand...
Funny enough, that's literally how Dio beat him in the novel. When he got cocky and spammed his discs, Dio plot-haxed him and created "the spiral staircase" of fate. If Kars was to chase Dio through time with MIHU, he would just wound up going through the staircase.

Wanna know how he got out of the loop? Bite the Dust.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
I was more responding to the issue of the clones. That being said, this fight takes place in The House. The House has fate. Even if he goes back in time to try and change it, the events will play out the same way with only minor differences. Kars can try as many times as he likes, but unless he can somehow escape The House, he is doomed to die over and over. Kars gets Homura'd kek
Click to expand...
Kars will still atart off with a face to face confrontation with Ashen everytime, so he has multiple opportunities to work on his strategy. He will tag Ashen at some point before she escapes.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Funny enough, that's literally how Dio beat him in the novel. When he got cocky and spammed his discs, Dio plot-haxed him and created "the spiral staircase" of fate. If Kars was to chase Dio through time with MIHU, he would just wound up going through the staircase.

Wanna know how he got out of the loop? Bite the Dust.
Click to expand...
there are differences between the loop of fate in Jorge Joestar and The House, but at this point the differences are inconsequential because of the golden bullets. Even if she dies, the futures will not be restored. the future timelines will not come back just because you moved back along the 4th axis.

Also, let's take this a step further, here is something you all that you all seem to have forgotten. Ashen can get bullets created meant to kill D4CU and Killer Queen. She knows of his abilities, she knows they won't go down when he does, she'll get her a set of bullets etched with Killer Queen. Grabs her a second gun with a set of bullets that takes down that as well
 
TacticalNuke002 said:
Kars will still atart off with a face to face confrontation with Ashen everytime, so he has multiple opportunities to work on his strategy. He will tag Ashen at some point before she escapes.
Click to expand...
Actually, he starts of several Km away, but that doesn't matter. He can try with BtD as many times as he likes and he still goes down every time.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
Even if she dies, the futures will not be restored. the future timelines will not come back just because you moved back along the 4th axis.
Click to expand...
That's actually similar to what Kars explained to Joji in those set of scans.
 
Wouldn't it be better for the important parts within the feat to be bolded so one wouldn't need to read the whole paragraphs
 
Everything is ovo

Kinda. Because it's horribly written, the narrator it's the main character, and this is happening kinda in the present? But it's him telling the story to someone else?

It's a mess of a novel, really. xD
 
Funny nodded. "In other words, we passed through thirty- seven universes and looped back to our world." "Which means the universe I was born in is the world's final universe..." The Funniest paused, and looked at Cars. "And the one you come from is the first." Cars grinned back, but said nothing. "And Dio Brando has closed the loop (...)"

"I see," The Funniest said. "Then we can use that Stand to speed time up again and go to the universe where Dio is. If only we knew where...or when...that is." "We know that," Cars said. "My Standremembers when Dio left it. One universe after this one." Funny thought for a moment. "Then we can use the Stand above us to speed up time and catch up to Dio?" "Yes. But why would we do that? (...) Not like your history changes." "No, it changes to a spiral staircase..." "Only on the universal level," Cars said, dismissively. "I'm speaking on the world level. This world is a string of thirty-seven universes, which form a loop. If you look at each universe, then a similar but distinct history repeats itself thirty-seven times, and then the exact same thirty-seven histories happen again."


"So catching up to him by speeding up time is no good. You can't change history by following the axle of time. If you want to change history you can't chase him to the future, you gotta go back and fix things. That's just how time works." Cars laughed. "What's the difference between going forwards and backwards in time?" "...I dunno? But consciousness and space time are closely intertwined. The power of human consciousness...even Stands are not just like, weapons we pick up, but a power we make inside ourselves. And they can be so strong they control the flow of time in the entire universe! (...) So like, if everyone on an island with lots of people living on it like Great Britain thinks about turning back time or denies a fact of history Then it will have an effect, right?" I really had no basis for this, or I sort of did but I couldn't explain it logically and I'd never tried to tell anyone about anything like this.

"Hmph, but if we are to go back, how would we do it? We have a way to go forward, but have you thought of a way to get back? (...) So?" "I'm not sure, but I do have one thing worth trying. You've heard of the Bermuda Triangle?" (...) I realized, "Are those the two Singularities? Nishi Akatsuki and the Bermuda Triangle." Cars grinned. "Anyone who doesn't notice that will never be able to get to Heaven. (...) And look," Cars pointed to a photograph Narancia had sent to the pebble phone. "The modern Bermuda Triangle is right in front of where Great Britain is, outside Manhattan Island's armor." Liberty Island, where the Statue of Liberty stood. "But this Bermuda Triangle is also very close to the Trinity Church on Manhattan Island. And they just checked the facility underneath that church and found the body of the holy man was gone. They don't know when it vanished, but it might not have been somewhere in the last thirty-six histories of the universe; it might have been just a few moments ago. Thirty-six universes ago the Bermuda Triangle and Manhattan were on the same continent, but quite far apart. Now they've moved very close together, and only the Bermuda Triangle is exposed...doesn't that worry you at all? Can't you feel the vampire's unconscious glee as he waits for you to plunge into the trap he prepared?"

"How do we outmaneuver Dio?" Don't rush me, I thought, but I had already outmaneuvered Dio once, right? When I brought us back from the parallel world. "Um, OK...but...?" I said. "Spit it out." "I only know one Stand that goes back in time." "...and?" "Could Kira Yoshikage's Killer Queen's Bites the Dust help us out here?" That only took people back an our. But Cars grinned at me. "Explosions are hardly a threat to me." "Whaaaat? But we're trying to get back thirty-six universes ago!" "Time is also not a problem for me."
 
Match seems heavily in favour of Ashen under the given conditions tbh.

That being said, with prior knowledge, she would try to take out the biggest threat first, since she obviously can't attack Kars and his Stands at the same time. Her first bullet will be aimed at TWU due to its time stop which could screw her over completely. The second would be for Killer Queen, Third at Kars and lastly at D4CU and Whitesnake respectively. Since she can easily escape D4CU and her bullet hard counters it and Whitesnake is mostly useless here.

Would you agree with this order of importance? I'll proceed with my argument after approval.
 
bump. Any who opposes Kars please give an order for Ashen's bullet priority, since she can't shoot 4 bullets at once (for Kars, TWU, KQ and D4CU which seems to be the relevant targets).
 
The first would be Killer Queen, followed by Kars himself. Tho she can hold 2 guns so they would be the first 2 to go at the same time. If she kills Kars, all the stands save for D4CU and KQ go down. If she kills Kars, she has a moment to pull out another gun with the bullets for D4CU since getting the new Kars is not instantaneous

As for your complaint about this favouring ashen, this is kinda the way she fights in universe. It does seem to favor her, but conflict within A House of Many Doors do not take place in a vacuum. They often use complex plans, creating equipment and gaining allies to fight the opposition. Most of the powers in the verse take prep time to use, like the Golden Bullets, and if they do not get Intel, then they will often have to do their own research
 
No it's fine. First, I would like to preface that she hasn't been in a situation like this where she has to plan to kill multiple targets. She is very tactical and is known to carry multiple weapons on her.

Other people of her trade in the game do, so i would assume she is more than capable as well. She went through even greater loops to kill perennials in the past, so this would be more than within her realms of planning
 
Hmm, so supposing she follows this ideal process, she wins huh?

Last question. What is the likelihood that there is an alternative universe where she either messes up or wasn't facing Kars?
 
You mean within The House? None. The house is completely unique, and tho there is an infinite multiverse outside and a likely infinite number of mirror dimensions, they do not work this way.
 
This was indeed a good match. Rather than having the characters throw their haxes at each other, it had the supporters having a strategy/tactics debate instead, with both trying to find logical loopholes to outwit the other party.
 
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