High School DxD Universe Discussion Thread

[MasqueTLDF]

I just woke up and this thread is already have 8 pages...

But now, I agree for cosmology being low multiverse, but for character itself... disagree, for now. Also did Issei just tell Ddraig blantantly that he died if he blow up the planet?

"“I received an explanation regarding Ryuuteimaru. That is — it looks like Ryuuteimaru holds a power capable enough to destroy a planet."[—!!? A p-planet!?] Everyone except for Ravel and me screamed in shock at Rias's words. This was natural, right? You know, if you heard this and that about a planet. I said,“Even when I defeated Tartarus, Seekvaira-san told me to suppress the power. In fact, with limited output, it had such power, right? ...I also thought it was dangerous. Destroying a planet sounds crazy, but I feel like I understand.”Using that power inside Ryuuteimaru, I realized. It's scary in a different sense than True Dragon Deification. True Dragon Deification was scary because of the risk of the body not being able to adapt, but [A×A] with Ryuuteimaru was too scary because, on the contrary, the risk was low.“—The current Ryuuteimaru, [A×A], is too dangerous. ”I said so.“Have your feelings for oppai finally reached planet-breaking levels...? ”Xenovia said with a groan. Rossweisse-san asked with a serious expression." ....So a restriction in order to be able to unleash that power when you think about doing it, right? " I said.“Currently, it’s not quite at a perfect state, so I don’t know how serious it can get... But if I have it shoot at high power, I think it will be able to shoot. That’s why it’s dangerous.”Supposing it can fire an attack powerful enough to be able to break the planet... there’s no way you could shoot something like that easily. Because it would all be over.— "

"[However, if you destroy the entire planet, you win.] I'm also going to die if the Earth is gone, aren’t I!?"

Lets break this down, the first quote says a few important things. First, Issei can destroy a planet. Second, it can be done with limited output (meaning while holding back). Third, Issei says the power is scary and it would be difficult to shoot higher output blasts with AxA because he would die but they'd still fire. And lastly, Issei will die if the earth is gone.

We also know that if the planet were to be destroyed, all of the gods would die too as their existence is tied to human's belief in them.

So Issei's durability doesn't scale to max power AxA attacks but it does to limited output attacks. (Backed up by Issei being able to use these same limited output attacks while in AxA) I covered how strong planet busting in DxD is here https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:MasqueTLDF/DxD_Cosmology#Human_Realm the last statement could mean a plethora of things, like Issei not having food in space, the devil and angel's population dying out and the stronger residents of earth as well meaning that threats like ExE would be able to destroy them easily.

Especially given Issei can survive the force of his normal AxA attacks, Issei not being able to survive the destruction of the Earth is very unlikely.

Also, Issei is fine without oxygen, he's been in the Dimensional Gap multiple times.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

I took an example that really fits the situation. That of subspace in TENSURA. It's exactly the same thing but subspace does not contain the worlds. It surrounds all worlds and is connected to them but does not contain them. Subspace received a 2-A rating because it stretches the space and time of all worlds to infinity.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:MasqueTLDF/DxD_Cosmology#Dimensional_Gap Please just read it carefully

 

[MasqueTLDF]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:MasqueTLDF/DxD_Cosmology#Dimensional_Gap Please just read it carefully

There's a large section dedicated to this specific argument.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Enough reading already and once again it's just an assumption on your part that surround==contain. In everything that is described nothing shows that it contains. It meets all the criteria without needing to contain anything.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Enough reading already and once again it's just an assumption on your part that surround==contain. In everything that is described nothing shows that it contains. It meets all the criteria without needing to contain anything.

The dimensional gap surrounds and is connected to the worlds and I believe it says that destroying one would destroy the others what more do you want.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Enough reading already and once again it's just an assumption on your part that surround==contain. In everything that is described nothing shows that it contains. It meets all the criteria without needing to contain anything.

I gave three examples proving that the two words mean the same thing and provided context from within the series. At this point, it's just your misunderstanding of the English Language tbh, no offense.

 

[Digital_Franz]

The dimensional gap surrounds and is connected to the worlds and I believe it says that destroying one would destroy the others what more do you want.

No need for it to contain for that. Being connected to all worlds, its destruction should lead to that of others.

 

[Digital_Franz]

I gave three examples proving that the two words mean the same thing and provided context from within the series. At this point, it's just your misunderstanding of the English Language tbh, no offense.

That's what you think.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

No need for it to contain for that. Being connected to all worlds, its destruction should lead to that of others.

if a toothpick connected two grapes and the toothpick was destroyed, would the grapes be as well?

 

[MasqueTLDF]

That's what you think.

Alright buddy, sure.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Alright buddy, sure.

Okay, I'll be honest. In your blog nothing shows that the destruction of the dimensional gap would lead to the destruction of the world. It is just said that in a fight between 666 and Great Red the world could be destroyed in byproduct. This leaves one thing: with the world surrounded and connected to the dimensional gap, the energy produced during the fight would transfer to the world and could destroy it (Low 2-C feat).

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Okay, I'll be honest. In your blog nothing shows that the destruction of the dimensional gap would lead to the destruction of the world. It is just said that in a fight between 666 and Great Red the world could be destroyed in byproduct. This leaves one thing: with the world surrounded and connected to the dimensional gap, the energy produced during the fight would transfer to the world and could destroy it (Low 2-C feat).

Literally just a lie

 

[Digital_Franz]

Literally just a lie

Isn't that what it says in the blog? Point out to me a passage here where it is mentioned that the destruction of the dimensional gap amounts to the destruction of the world

 

[MasqueTLDF]

"Ophis wants to kick him out out of the Dimensional Gap. Right now, the lines between the worlds are stable because Great Red rules the Dimensional Gap. If something like that were to happen... Who knows what could happen to the entire world?"

“There is even a radical opinion from a certain mythology where they won’t think twice about sending their military forces into this matter. Chief Gods such as Odin and Zeus are giving their warning to that mythology somehow……but I won’t know what will happen if terrorism greater than this incident continues even more. After all, the Evil Dragons that are deemed as dangerous from each mythology are causing havoc all at once. And the one that is leading them is the actual son of the previous Lucifer. Even those who saw the previous incident of the Underworld’s monster crises as merely something outside their bounds are feeling that this incident is a serious issue. —If 666 gets revived and starts a fight with Sekiryuushintei Great Red, the world may collapse due to their aftermath.” [—!?] Everyone becomes speechless at Sensei’s confession. ……If Great Red starts a battle with 666, the world may receive that much damage. Yeah, no wonder the higher-ups of each of the factions are making preparations! The world may have received that much damage if Great Red and Ophis had a battle. However, that didn’t happen. The leaders of the Khaos Brigade till now had been deceiving Ophis and were using her, but they didn’t let her fight Great Red because they knew it was dangerous. But it’s different now. Rizevim clearly did say that he will have Great Red and 666 fight each other in order to defeat that Sekiryuushintei. ……Even I can’t imagine what will happen to the dimensional gap if Great Red is gone but I can guess that there is definitely nothing good about it."

“No. Unfortunately, that would be unwise. The prevailing theory at present is that the dimensional void is in equilibrium with the various planes of existence precisely because the Great Red resides within it. If Ophis—or Vali, for that matter—were to slay him and rule over it themselves,there’s no telling what would happen to our world. We might have been able to trust the old Ophis, but she’s changed too much.” That certainly sounded serious, a breakdown of the stability between the dimensional void and the various planes of existence…"

 

[MasqueTLDF]

The world refers to the entirety of Draconic Deus

 

[Digital_Franz]

"Ophis wants to kick him out out of the Dimensional Gap. Right now, the lines between the worlds are stable because Great Red rules the Dimensional Gap. If something like that were to happen... Who knows what could happen to the entire world?"

“There is even a radical opinion from a certain mythology where they won’t think twice about sending their military forces into this matter. Chief Gods such as Odin and Zeus are giving their warning to that mythology somehow……but I won’t know what will happen if terrorism greater than this incident continues even more. After all, the Evil Dragons that are deemed as dangerous from each mythology are causing havoc all at once. And the one that is leading them is the actual son of the previous Lucifer. Even those who saw the previous incident of the Underworld’s monster crises as merely something outside their bounds are feeling that this incident is a serious issue. —If 666 gets revived and starts a fight with Sekiryuushintei Great Red, the world may collapse due to their aftermath.” [—!?] Everyone becomes speechless at Sensei’s confession. ……If Great Red starts a battle with 666, the world may receive that much damage. Yeah, no wonder the higher-ups of each of the factions are making preparations! The world may have received that much damage if Great Red and Ophis had a battle. However, that didn’t happen. The leaders of the Khaos Brigade till now had been deceiving Ophis and were using her, but they didn’t let her fight Great Red because they knew it was dangerous. But it’s different now. Rizevim clearly did say that he will have Great Red and 666 fight each other in order to defeat that Sekiryuushintei. ……Even I can’t imagine what will happen to the dimensional gap if Great Red is gone but I can guess that there is definitely nothing good about it."

“No. Unfortunately, that would be unwise. The prevailing theory at present is that the dimensional void is in equilibrium with the various planes of existence precisely because the Great Red resides within it. If Ophis—or Vali, for that matter—were to slay him and rule over it themselves,there’s no telling what would happen to our world. We might have been able to trust the old Ophis, but she’s changed too much.” That certainly sounded serious, a breakdown of the stability between the dimensional void and the various planes of existence…"

This is my analysis. No need for the dimensional gap to contain the worlds for its destruction here to cause the destruction of the world. Why? Because the dimensional gap is responsible for stabilizing the worlds and if Great Red does not reign over him then the worlds will be unstable and will collapse.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

This is my analysis. No need for the dimensional gap to contain the worlds for its destruction here to cause the destruction of the world. Why? Because the dimensional gap is responsible for stabilizing the worlds and if Great Red does not reign over him then the worlds will be unstable and will collapse.

It's literally stated that it surrounds them which means the same as contain.

 

[Digital_Franz]

The world refers to the entirety of Draconic Deus

So the Universe.

 

[Digital_Franz]

It's literally stated that it surrounds them which means the same as contain.

Again with that. Surrounds=/=contain.

 

[Digital_Franz]

It's literally stated that it surrounds them which means the same as contain.

No need to contain to stabilize.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

So the Universe.

The Human Realm and the Mythological realms

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Again with that. Surrounds=/=contain.

From my blog:
Reworded Reasoning: Described as surrounding the Myth Realms. I think surrounding something is the same as containing something, at least within the context I'll talk about later. Contain definition "have or hold (someone or something) within." Surround definition "be all around (someone or something)."

Let me provide a few examples. If you fill a bottle with water, does it contain the water or surround it? Lets look at the definitions, does the bottle hold water within it? Yes! Does the bottle exist around the Water? Also yes, a water bottle both contains and surrounds water, and in this instance, they are both for the same reason.

Here's another, if you place a marble into your hand and close it around the marble, does your hand contain the marble or surround it? Lets check the definitions again, does your closed hand hold a marble within it? Yes! Does your hand exist around the marble? Also Yes. I hope you're starting to se my point.

This is the last one so pay close attention, does space in our universe contain or surround the planets? One more time, lets look at the definitions, does space hold planets within it? Yes! Does space exist around the planets, considering that if you go outside at night and look up, no matter where you are, you'll see a black night sky, I'm tempted to say yes to that as well.

Now, I hope we've established that the words"surround" and "contain" are inextricably linked an literally mean the same exact thing, as I've provided several examples that prove this. We can determine via common sense that the "Dimensional Void surrounding the underworld" statement means that the Dimensional Gap also contains the underworld.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

No need to contain to stabilize.

But the other evidence proves it does

 

[Digital_Franz]

I think surrounding something is the same as containing something, at least within the context I'll talk about later. Contain definition "have or hold (someone or something) within." Surround definition "be all around (someone or something)."

You think. Be all around=/=have or hold. Better ask to an administrator or a knowledgeable member.

Let me provide a few examples. If you fill a bottle with water, does it contain the water or surround it? Lets look at the definitions, does the bottle hold water within it? Yes! Does the bottle exist around the Water? Also yes, a water bottle both contains and surrounds water, and in this instance, they are both for the same reason.

Is it connected to the water or does it exist everywhere in the water?

Here's another, if you place a marble into your hand and close it around the marble, does your hand contain the marble or surround it? Lets check the definitions again, does your closed hand hold a marble within it? Yes! Does your hand exist around the marble? Also Yes. I hope you're starting to se my point.

Except dimensions don't work that way. You don't capture the fact that a dimension is formless. It can be distorted in such a way as to allow space for another but without necessarily containing this one. Let's take Luffy as an example (he is really the most practical case here). Being elastic, you can shoot a cannonball at him and he receives it. His body being elastic will surround the cannonball on all sides but does the cannonball exist in Luffy?

This is the last one so pay close attention, does space in our universe contain or surround the planets? One more time, lets look at the definitions, does space hold planets within it? Yes! Does space exist around the planets, considering that if you go outside at night and look up, no matter where you are, you'll see a black night sky, I'm tempted to say yes to that as well.

Objectively this is the worst possible case to materialize a dimension. You cannot materialize a dimension using space.

Now, I hope we've established that the words"surround" and "contain" are inextricably linked an literally mean the same exact thing, as I've provided several examples that prove this. We can determine via common sense that the "Dimensional Void surrounding the underworld" statement means that the Dimensional Gap also contains the underworld.

No. Hell no.

 

[Digital_Franz]

From my blog:
Reworded Reasoning: Described as surrounding the Myth Realms. I think surrounding something is the same as containing something, at least within the context I'll talk about later. Contain definition "have or hold (someone or something) within." Surround definition "be all around (someone or something)."

Let me provide a few examples. If you fill a bottle with water, does it contain the water or surround it? Lets look at the definitions, does the bottle hold water within it? Yes! Does the bottle exist around the Water? Also yes, a water bottle both contains and surrounds water, and in this instance, they are both for the same reason.

Here's another, if you place a marble into your hand and close it around the marble, does your hand contain the marble or surround it? Lets check the definitions again, does your closed hand hold a marble within it? Yes! Does your hand exist around the marble? Also Yes. I hope you're starting to se my point.

This is the last one so pay close attention, does space in our universe contain or surround the planets? One more time, lets look at the definitions, does space hold planets within it? Yes! Does space exist around the planets, considering that if you go outside at night and look up, no matter where you are, you'll see a black night sky, I'm tempted to say yes to that as well.

Now, I hope we've established that the words"surround" and "contain" are inextricably linked an literally mean the same exact thing, as I've provided several examples that prove this. We can determine via common sense that the "Dimensional Void surrounding the underworld" statement means that the Dimensional Gap also contains the underworld.

@Vietthai96 how can you explain to him that surround=/=contain?

 

[CurrySenpai]

this is such a stupid point anyways cause we know the worlds are connected and if the dimensional gap is destroyed th same happens to the worlds associated

 

[Digital_Franz]

this is such a stupid point anyways cause we know the worlds are connected and if the dimensional gap is destroyed th same happens to the worlds associated

The point is this. The world will not be destroyed because the dimensional gap is destroyed but will collapse because the dimensional gap will no longer be present to act as a stabilizer. At least that's what the characters say in the blog.

"Ophis wants to kick him out out of the Dimensional Gap. Right now, the lines between the worlds are stable because Great Red rules the Dimensional Gap. If something like that were to happen... Who knows what could happen to the entire world?"

 

[MasqueTLDF]

You think. Be all around=/=have or hold. Better ask to an administrator or a knowledgeable member.

Is it connected to the water or does it exist everywhere in the water?

Except dimensions don't work that way. You don't capture the fact that a dimension is formless. It can be distorted in such a way as to allow space for another but without necessarily containing this one. Let's take Luffy as an example (he is really the most practical case here). Being elastic, you can shoot a cannonball at him and he receives it. His body being elastic will surround the cannonball on all sides but does the cannonball exist in Luffy?

Objectively this is the worst possible case to materialize a dimension. You cannot materialize a dimension using space.

No. Hell no.

I literally just gave 3 examples. Sure, although I'm not sure where to look for staff or how to approach about this topic.

No?

They do tho. Space within a dimension can typically be distorted, not the dimension itself. Luffy doesn't surround things on all sides, there will always be a part of the cannonball not covered by Luffy.

Bro what

Yes.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

His skin isn't all around the ball nor is the ball within his stomach, you literally proved my point.

 

[Vietthai96]

Rn though, I think the major point of contention is whether or not people believe the dimensional gap is 2-A or Low 2-C

Anime characters obviously scale, that was the point of Masque’s thread to differentiate LN Issei with Anime Issei/Manga Issei

I think 2-A is possible but once again, would highly recommend reading his blog.

Even if Dimensional Gap is Low 2-C or 2-A, no one scales, in anime no one ever affect it at all

 

[CurrySenpai]

Even if Dimensional Gap is Low 2-C or 2-A, no one scales, in anime no one ever affect it at all

Isn't it stated Issei collapsed it, also doesn't Big Red maintain it?

 

[Vietthai96]

Isn't it stated Issei collapsed it, also doesn't Big Red maintain it?

It is still there after the battle, and there are also other section of it, so obviously he at best blast a section of it. Theoretically you could scale Red to his LN counterpart but due to Hero retcon later half of TNK Born anime, the guy will have nothing on his profile aside from baisc information and tier of course which i doubt wiki allow since he gonna be a degrade version of his LN profile

 

[Digital_Franz]

His skin isn't all around the ball nor is the ball within his stomach, you literally proved my point.

The ball can go deeper. When he takes the bullet, it is completely surrounded by his body (you have to watch his fight with Cracker). That doesn't prove your point here. His skin may certainly cover the entire ball, but the ball will not be part of him. That's what you don't hit.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Even if Dimensional Gap is Low 2-C or 2-A, no one scales, in anime no one ever affect it at all

Ophis, everyone above her, Anime Issei, Vali, Ophis, Great Red, Sairaorg, Fenrir, Loki, Sirzechs, Odin, Azazel, Cao Cao, Sun Wukong, Rias, Issei's clone.

Great Red does constantly, Issei and Rias' clash "disrupts the Dimensional Gap" and you can see the whole thing shaking on screen and ripples being created.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

It is still there after the battle, and there are also other section of it, so obviously he at best blast a section of it. Theoretically you could scale Red to his LN counterpart but due to Hero retcon later half of TNK Born anime, the guy will have nothing on his profile aside from baisc information and tier of course which i doubt wiki allow since he gonna be a degrade version of his LN profile

He didn't exactly collapse it, more like he shook it, no he didn't "blast a section of it" where are you getting that from? That's the idea, there's no retcon in Hero, what are you on about? What?

 

[MasqueTLDF]

The ball can go deeper. When he takes the bullet, it is completely surrounded by his body (you have to watch his fight with Cracker). That doesn't prove your point here. His skin may certainly cover the entire ball, but the ball will not be part of him. That's what you don't hit.

First it was cannonballs and when I prove you wrong, you move the goalpost to bullets. Just admit you were wrong.

 

[Digital_Franz]

First it was cannonballs and when I prove you wrong, you move the goalpost to bullets. Just admit you were wrong.

I made a mistake writing bullet. And so far I don't see what the difference is between a bullet and a cannonball. They are both projectiles. And you didn't prove anything wrong because you took a picture that showed when the bullet had just landed on Luffy.

 

[Digital_Franz]

First it was cannonballs and when I prove you wrong, you move the goalpost to bullets. Just admit you were wrong.

The point I wanted to make to you is that you can equate Luffy with the dimensional gap. He can surround an entire cannonball but the cannonball is not part of his internal constitution.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Think you guys should make a CRT with the minimum interpretation, mid end, and maximum interpretation and then hash it out.

 

[BlackeJan]

I was gonna say, why not make a LN counterpart of this goes through and well with the destruction of the dimensional gap, would we know it would be overtime or in 1 fell swoop?