High 8-C Survival of the Fittest Tournament: Group A - Joseph Joestar vs Charles Calvin

[DemonicDude]

Group A:
Round 5:
Same Rules as stated in the Tournament.
Joseph is been on a roll with 6 points but his bizarre adventure has now bring him his 3rd opponent that is a STICKMAN !!! Truly bizarre indeed, Will Charles be the one to end Joseph's winning streak ?

Results:
Joseph Joestar (Jojo) Post Training: 6 (Chariot, Popted2, DD, Shey, Glace, FantaRin, OneBleach)
Charles Calvin (Henry Stickmin (Series):
Inconclusive:

 

[Baken384]

By the looks of it, Charles should be at least 2x stronger than Joseph.

Well, I don't know if Hamon's durability shenanigans can actually work on stickman but his Ultimate Hamon Overdrive should be able to do the trick, by that one shotting him as it managed to shit on Kars' blade arm who one shotted Lisa Lisa who was stated to be 3x stronger than Joseph.

But that is his final move though so whatever. Hamon has shit like healing and pain dampening which should be quite useful include the fact you know Joseph's bullshit intelligence and creativity with his unpredictable hamon traps or techniques, I could see him taking this match.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Charles pretty much has the AP and range advantages here (4.14 tons and Hundreds of meters VS 2.004 tons and somewhere higher than extended melee range), where Joseph would be unable to hit Charles if he’s in the sky. And since he starts off at near-baseline, Charles is able to one-shot those on his level with his weapons since many of them were able to accidentally one-shot Henry. The only way Joseph would be able to win is if he can pull off the Ultimate Hamon Overdrive to one-shot Charles, but considering how he is at a range disadvantage, he can’t do it.

To top it all off, Joseph’s Analytical Prediction can get hard-countered by many of Charles’ haxes that he would not be able to dodge or protect himself such as getting his bones melted via Bone Melt, having his mind get controlled, or have a loud sound play through Subsonic Wave loud enough to knock people out of cold.

 

[Baken384]

I shall wait for what others think, stick man seems to be more promising

 

[Chariot190]

Relevant Joseph info.
In regards to AP, they're likely about even, Charles is 4.14 tons, and Joseph scales to dudes who can stomp and manhandle 2 tonners. And his Ultimate Hamon Overdrive is able to one shot something that could oneshot someone who is 3x him, meaning if Joseph lands this move, he basically kills his foe twice over.
If he's outranged, he's just gonna flee and then set shit up to give himself an advantage, or lure his foe into a place that he can't optimally use his long range methods (Inside a building for example or a billion other places where his foe will be forced to follow him that cuts off that advantage). Though, it is important to note that Joseph actually does have decent range, it just depends on the environment, some things can channel Hamon for tens of meters, and depending on his equipment, the range gets extended to whatever that weapon had as it'd just be that weapon + infused with Hamon.
In regards to firearms, darts, and the like, Joseph is capable of deflecting fire like that. even pre-training, he could harden substances to the point they could deflect bullets, even something as mundane as someone's hair can be used as shielding to deflect weaponry, of course, Joseph can harden any organic matter to ludicrous degrees to do this, thus being outgunned, snipped, and the like isn't exactly a win condition against Joseph.
His foe lacks any resistance to Joseph's hax, all Joseph needs is one touch to win, whether that be via mind control, sleep inducement (his foe has these too tho), body control and puppetry, hypnosis, to even the more lethal organ failure.
While I said with one touch, this touch doesn't need to be from Joseph physically, Joseph is capable of channeling his Hamon through objects and even storing it within some objects, this can be things like wires, where Joseph sets up wiretraps that if his foe comes into contact with will get Hamon'd, or metal objects like steel paneling, chains, and the like. Things like liquid can also be manipulated, channeled and stored with Hamon, from water, blood to even shit like coca cola.
Joseph can also heal himself, being able to heal things like stab wounds, cuts, torn tissue, broken bones and even a broken neck.
Joseph outlasts his foe by a ridiculous degree too, his stamina is immense, he can run tens of kilometers in one breath, and hundreds in one, his training had him do shit like climb a pillar using Hamon but only from his finger tips, something that is exhausting, and yet, he could manage for almost 3 days doing this, Hamon also halts his bodily functions and needs while in use, this allowed him to go without rest, food and drink and in his own words, taking a piss, for days, thus if it comes down to it, between stamina, hamon and healing, he will outlast his foe by a huge degree.

Joseph, also has things like tommy guns and grenades and oil, he can utilize this oil to coat his weapons and objects in it, oil being a liquid allows him to channel and store hamon onto said objects, displayed with a steel ball against Wham, imagine what would happen if he coated his bullets in it and channeled Hamon in that? It'd be insane, he'd basically have a instant kill haxed out tommy gun.

Joseph's main issue is that his foe is in a helicopter, but at the same time, Joseph is just gonna run the **** away and gather shit or formulate a counter plan if up against something like that, he won't stick around if he can't win or do anything, perhaps Joseph can set up wire traps between various things and lure his foe between them? Whatever the case may be, Joseph will never be engaging it directly so that isn't exactly a huge concern. The concern is how will he take it out, as mentioned there's weapons, traps, luring, if the fight takes place in a cityscape, Joseph could easily set something up between buildings, and have it chase him.
There's also the fact Joseph vastly outsmarts his foe, and will be able to analyze and deduce his actions and intent, this might allow Joseph ways to read ahead and counter his foe's future actions, exploiting them for an opening.

If they ever enter CQC for whatever reason, which I doubt, Joseph, funnily enough, skill *****, Joseph might not be like Batman or Big Boss, but he actually is skilled and eclipses Hamon masters who have trained for decades, his rival is so innately skilled that without even knowing what it is, he instinctively knows some kung fu, just because it's optimal. He's also a crack shot, he can ricochet attacks mid-fall, and one time he flicked pieces of glass and beheaded a fly like ten meters away without even trying. If they get into a shootout, I'm inclined to believe Joseph oddly enough wins based on his marksmen feats which venture into the realm of superhuman.

It should also be noted that sleeping gas won't work on Joseph, he can hold his breath for as mentioned, a ******* LONG time, and while that is bad for Hamon dudes, it's only bad to an extent, as while he can't make more Hamon, any Hamon he already had, stays within his body for use, if he has ample Hamon charged up, which he would given he's trained to make that shit even while sleeping and do it subconsciously, he can still use it for quite awhile.

 

[Chariot190]

To top it all off, Joseph’s Analytical Prediction can get hard-countered by many of Charles’ haxes that he would not be able to dodge or protect himself such as getting his bones melted via Bone Melt,

Uh, no it doesn't lad? Also what's the range on that.

having his mind get controlled

Joseph has that too, in three different methods. hell if he wanted he could infuse animals with Hamon, like pigeons to attack Charles and overwhelm him, and if touched, transfer the Hamon to Charles for an incap.

or have a loud sound play through Subsonic Wave loud enough to knock people out of cold.

Joseph was LITERALLY next to a volcano exploding that sent out a few km boom. I don't think a sonic device that knocks out normal dudes is gonna do the same to a dude who could stand next to an overpressure comparable to a warhead and go "hey shit we got him bro".

 

[Psychomaster35]

In regards to AP, they're likely about even, Charles is 4.14 tons, and Joseph scales to dudes who can stomp and manhandle 2 tonners

Yes, Charles is physically 4.14 tons. Though, his weapons can one-shot those on his level as I have stated.

If he's outranged, he's just gonna flee and then set shit up to give himself an advantage, or lure his foe into a place that he can't optimally use his long range methods (Inside a building for example or a billion other places where his foe will be forced to follow him that cuts off that advantage).

Then it just alerts Charles to them use his haxes, especially his Gravity Bubble where the force of the gravity was so strong that it caused Henry to faceplant and unable to stand.

Joseph's main issue is that his foe is in a helicopter, but at the same time, Joseph is just gonna run the **** away and gather shit or formulate a counter plan if up against something like that, he won't stick around if he can't win or do anything, perhaps Joseph can set up wire traps between various things and lure his foe between them?

Yes, the helicopter is pretty much his hardest issue. However, as for setting up wire traps, it should be noted that Charles is an experienced pilot in the military, so he would be able to look at his surroundings.

Also what's the range on that.

Considering how Charles was a decent distance away from the airship so he would get into contact with Henry, I’d say he would have to be around this distance away which are also the range of his other abilities.

For reference, the airship wing was measured to be 82.2342857143 meters.

82.2342857143 * 576 / [150 * 2 * tan (70deg / 2)] is 225.490043959 meters for Charles’ range

Since the range of a tommy gun is supposed to be 150 meters from what I looked up, this means Charles outranges Joseph’s gun.

Joseph has that too, in three different methods. hell if he wanted he could infuse animals with Hamon, like pigeons to attack Charles and overwhelm him, and if touched, transfer the Hamon to Charles for an incap.

How fast would he be able to pull this off? Many of the actions Charles does have him push some buttons on front of him.

Every other point I didn’t reply to is fair.

 

[DemonicDude]

Charles seems to have the edge, FRA

 

[Chariot190]

Yes, Charles is physically 4.14 tons. Though, his weapons can one-shot those on his level as I have stated.

And Joseph can enhance things to the point they can stop things that would one shot him, see Kars. Obviously there's a limit, but he can fend off attacks from those 3x above himself, if he uses and focuses enough Hamon. Hamon has statistic amplification, Joseph's can use his Hamon to harden his skin or harden other things to deflect projectiles, including things that can one shot foes on his caliber (most obvious example is his Hamon Ultimate Overdrive, which is High 8-C+ for that very reason, though that uses ALL his Hamon, he can still expend varying amounts to mitigate damage, not to mention he can heal as mentioned), even pre-training he could deflect bullets fired by Santana or SRSE from Straizo using a shot glass. SRSE being piercing that can one shot those equal to the user, or even the user themselves, or even Joseph given SRSE blew a hole through his shoulder, which thinking on it, Hamon could heal some wacky shit, like the time he crosscountered with Santana and almost lost his arm in a spray of blood, but was fine seconds later.

Then it just alerts Charles to them use his haxes, especially his Gravity Bubble where the force of the gravity was so strong that it caused Henry to faceplant and unable to stand.

Reminder Joseph has a durability feat where he withstood G forces that applied over 2 tons of tnt onto his body. And can use Hamon to withstand thousands of tons of force. I don't quite think this is gonna matter as much as you think it would.
And again, what's the range on this, and can he use it on Joseph if he loses track of Joseph, which is something he very well could do, let alone the fact Joseph could play dead only to to take that opening for a strategic retreat. Because that is something he would do, and is well within character.

Yes, the helicopter is pretty much his hardest issue. However, as for setting up wire traps, it should be noted that Charles is an experienced pilot in the military, so he would be able to look at his surroundings.

Wiretraps lad, you wouldn't be able to see shit even if you were looking at them dead on, they're razor thin, let alone in a helicopter. And that was just one example.

How fast would he be able to pull this off? Many of the actions Charles does have him push some buttons on front of him.

Any contact at all with Hamon, Hamon hypnosis is weird tho. Hamon can be generated and channeled by just breathing, but it has to travel, tho it can travel fast.

The only real issue Joseph has is actually reaching his foe, Joseph can do everything his foe can do to an extent for the most part, or more, and Joseph himself has decent range, especially if he whips out guns and the like. But as said, Joseph will **** off if need be, he'll even play dead to fool his foe into letting their guard down, only to turn around and take them out when he's in a better position.

The only win conditions that I see Charles actually having is bone melting and MAYBE mind hax, but that is also dependent on if he uses those before Joseph tricks him to death, literally, or before Joseph does shit back to him but worse. And Joseph can and will play dirty, he'd also be able to pick up the buttons would be a issue, probably by just the way his foe acts in regards to the buttons, tipping Joseph off he's confident in them and thus should be taken care of, we know Joseph is a crack shot as mentioned, and we know he's extremely precise, any reason why Joseph couldn't shoot something at Charles' fingers via Hamon empowerment or like, just his gun, making him drop it or breaking Charles finger?
Also the pigeon thing was only a half joke, he's actually used a hamon infused pigeon before to take a foe by surprise, he very well could do the same here, no reason why Charles would avoid something like random animals that are actually lethal harbingers of Hamon hax.

Every other point I didn’t reply to is fair.

That was like most of the points tho.

 

[Chariot190]

n̵g̵l̵ ̵i̵ ̵w̵i̵s̵h̵ ̵i̵ ̵c̵o̵u̵l̵d̵ ̵j̵u̵s̵t̵ ̵u̵s̵e̵ ̵f̵u̵t̵u̵r̵e̵ ̵C̵R̵T̵'̵s̵,̵ ̵J̵o̵s̵e̵p̵h̵'̵s̵ ̵L̵S̵ ̵i̵s̵ ̵o̵u̵t̵d̵a̵t̵e̵d̵ ̵a̵s̵ ̵f̵u̵c̵k̵

 

[Psychomaster35]

And again, what's the range on this, and can he use it on Joseph if he loses track of Joseph, which is something he very well could do, let alone the fact Joseph could play dead only to to take that opening for a strategic retreat. Because that is something he would do, and is well within character.

Same as his bone melt range. The mind control should be just about the same range. As for checking on him while he is playing dead, he just keeps an eye out on him. If he got affected by Charles’ Gravity Bubble, Charles would know it never actually killed him, so he would know he is playing dead.

Wiretraps lad, you wouldn't be able to see shit even if you were looking at them dead on, they're razor thin, let alone in a helicopter. And that was just one example.

Considering the max height is 250 meters, how is Joseph going to get that high up in order to set them up?

The only win conditions that I see Charles actually having is bone melting and MAYBE mind hax, but that is also dependent on if he uses those before Joseph tricks him to death, literally

Considering the SBA that both are willing to do all it takes to beat each other, Charles wouldn’t hesitate to melt his bones or mind control him if it means trying to succeed given his military experience.

 

[Chariot190]

Same as his bone melt range. The mind control should be just about the same range.

Yeah that doesn't answer my question, what is the range on the buttons, his profile lacks a **** ton of sources, nor does it list any range on these, hell his profile doesn't even have the word BUTTON in it listed anywhere.
And how fast is the bone melt, and to what extent.

As for checking on him while he is playing dead, he just keeps an eye out on him.

Why would he keep an eye on a corpse that can even halt its breathing for like a hour and slow down its bodily functions to the point for all intents and purposes he would seem functionally dead? Like Charles isn't omniscient, and no, military training won't magically change this, if anything his military training would make him think he is dead given a soldier would know what's lethal, when a body expires, signs of unconscious and apparent death and so on.

If he got affected by Charles’ Gravity Bubble, Charles would know it never actually killed him, so he would know he is playing dead.

How would he know that? Though I'm just gonna argue Joseph doesn't care, given with Hamon he could withstand 4,500 tons of force, and briefly resist it, even before his training.

Considering the max height is 250 meters, how is Joseph going to get that high up in order to set them up?

Depends on where they fight, if they fight in an urban environment like a city, wouldn't be a issue, buildings exist, a typical skyrise would work wonders. Alternatively, Joseph has guns, his crossbow has over 160m range (that's the minimum fyi), and he can and has coated it with Hamon (he can richochet it too), and he can always rely on animals like birds.
Though that's assuming Charles goes to the maximum height for some reason instead of typical cruise.

Considering the SBA that both are willing to do all it takes to beat each other, Charles wouldn’t hesitate to melt his bones or mind control him if it means trying to succeed given his military experience.

It's also in character, using your best shit out of the gate is more of a bloodlusted argument, and needless to say I don't think Charles in character uses those two specific things every single time he faces a foe, he could use them and probably will if he concludes it's needed, but as a lead? Extreme doubt, if we just wanna go for hypothetical optimal leads Joseph should probably just open up with a Hamon infused tommy gun as a lead to cancel out his foe's range entirely while also having instant kill bullets infused with hax, while having a bunch of hamon infused allies and other objects overwhelming Charles and distracting him at the same time. As such, I'm inclined to say that no, there very well is a high chance Joseph just bullshits him before Charles resorts to using his two win conditions, one of which I'm actually unsure on and the other is dependent on how much said acid actually melts, how quickly and so on.
Not to mention the range of the buttons kind of matters, if the buttons only work on a target in like, a few meters for example, obviously there's an issue with this whole argument.
Plus as mentioned, if he loses track of Joseph which I mean, to be fair, he very well might if he's turtling up in the sky and it isn't like Joseph lacks the ability to be stealthy even if he isn't Solid Snake, does Charles have any feats of effecting those he can't see or knows the location of?

 

[Chariot190]

Huh I lied, the crossbow range is actually like 800m, the colosseum is stated to have a circumference of 960m

 

[Psychomaster35]

Yeah that doesn't answer my question, what is the range on the buttons

Should’ve been more specific than that. His buttons are literally in right front of him, in the range of his hand.

Depends on where they fight, if they fight in an urban environment like a city, wouldn't be a issue, buildings exist, a typical skyrise would work wonders. Alternatively, Joseph has guns, his crossbow has over 160m range (that's the minimum fyi), and he can and has coated it with Hamon (he can richochet it too), and he can always rely on animals like birds.

The tournament states that it takes place on a deserted island like a park, but I don’t know what this island even has.

 

[DemonicDude]

Huh I lied, the crossbow range is actually like 800m, the colosseum is stated to have a circumference of 960m

Scan ? How far did the crossbow went.

 

[Chariot190]

Should’ve been more specific than that. His buttons are literally in right front of him, in the range of his hand.

My dude, actual bruh moment. That WASN'T what I was asking.

Scan ? How far did the crossbow went.

Like 60-70% of the arena's length after factoring in the straight angle.

 

[DemonicDude]

Like 60-70% of the arena's length after factoring in the straight angle.

Seems okay definitely not the entire arena.

 

[DemonicDude]

The tournament states that it takes place on a deserted island like a park, but I don’t know what this island even has.

An island with vegetation, Trees, Grass, Hills there ya go I found it, This fits the description of what I want.

 

[Chariot190]

Yeah, the entire arena is 960m circumference, Joseph's bow did over half, plus the two sharp turns, about 60-70% eyeballing it, so like 576m-672m.

 

[Chariot190]

An island with vegetation, Trees, grass, Hills there ya go I found it, This fits the description of what I want.

a port town
lush mountain sides

It's all coming together

 

[Popted2]

Joseph FRA

 

[Shey]

Joseph FRA for Chariot's numerous reasons

 

[DemonicDude]

Alright 4 votes for Joseph

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Joseph FRA

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Time to hope on the Joseph FRA Train due to Chariot's reasoning!

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

People in this thread including me be like:

FRA

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

And is this grace or nah?

 

[DemonicDude]

Grace

 

[DemonicDude]

Points table brackets updated, with that Joseph now sits at the top with 9 points and one match left for his respective Group

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

annnnd Im late I just woke up

 

[DemonicDude]

annnnd Im late I just woke up

Round 6 just started....perhaps you can analyze those matches.