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Heroes and Xenoverse speed revisited

Yeah, the plentiful cake of human and normal pokemon reacting and counter attacking to those 'infinit speed' attacks.

Pretending they have IS for a different reason doesn't affect anyone's point on this thread.
 
Ah yeah. The cake that by your logic means that even the rel+ Pokemon should be downgraded as a Snivy can see them. Or the fact that they're counter attacking 2-Bs at all. Bet I can also say that DBS isn't infinite or even MFTL+ because Krillin and Gohan can see them.

When DBH has the cast be higher dimensional, predate the concept of time, and scales to fighting said concept of time as well as a being that straight up lacks the concept of spacetime, on top of the void feats, then hit me up. But until then, don't compare apples to oranges.
 
The real cal howard said:
When DBH has the cast be higher dimensional, predate the concept of time, and scales to fighting said concept of time as well as a being that straight up lacks the concept of spacetime, on top of the void feats, then hit me up. But until then, don't compare apples to oranges.
Click to expand...
  • There are innumerable examples of Demon Gods fusing with Time, becoming Higher-Dimensional
  • The Demon Realm exists outside of time. Sort of hard to Predate Time when Time isn't a thing that even applies to you
  • TokiToki, who literally craps out Timelines and their death would mean the Death of History itself, repeatedly gets put in danger by said Demon Gods
  • Literally all the Void stuff that's already been discussed
Cal, none of what you said is special in relation to DBH at all.
 
I agree with Matt. Simply existing "Outside the flow of time" is not enough to warrant Infinite speed. That is at best simply resistance to time stop. It's not the same as moving in "The Chaos the predates the existence of time". Moving in a realm where time exists is simply an "Undefined" speed feat since anything divided by 0 is undefined.
 
I believe the shattered Space-Time is probably the Distortion of Time and Space in Adventures where Space and Time was so warped that no one could even move close to the fighting duo because Time would loop around and distance was being extended, the duo was perfectly fine fighting and moving about in the middle of that.
 
This looks good, other verses have infinite speed for shit with much less evidence.


-cough- a certain shitty VN -cough-


But on a serious note, I think Dragon Ball has more than enough evidence for Xenoverse characters having infinite speed, unless we change our standards for it of course.
 
  • Somehow I doubt they first one, except Mechikabura. He's legit.
  • Not the same. Existing outside of time isn't the same as predating the very concept, let alone lacking it. Just because they aren't in time doesn't mean they don't have its concept like Giratina.
  • Comparing Tokitoki to Dialga is fallacious as heck. Tokitoki isn't even actually time, given that he has a recorded birth. Dialga's birth on the other hand is time's start.
Also what Everything said. Their void actually has people who enter it get timescrewed.
 
Well and Spacescrewed as "near becomes far, up becomes down, and the past becomes the future." all the while the Duo seemed perfectly fine fighting each other in the centre of that Distortion of Time and Space uneffected by distance was being extended and Time was looping people back to where they started.
 
The Causality said:
Whatever since if the Timeless Void page is removed, this Dialga feat will mean absolutely nothing about Infinite Speed and will get yeeted.
Click to expand...
It's not a Dialga feat, it's a feat for both of then, and it's not even a timeless void, it's that Time and Space are so warped that Time loops you back to where you start and the Space is stretched so you can never reach your destination.
 
Which isn't even a feat remotely comparable to Infinite Speed, that's cool but this feat too will be yeeted since it don't have the requirement either, moving in in is at best resistance to Space-time manipulation.
 
Toki toki isnt time even though it's been stated he controls all of time and space and is the divine god bird of time with the power of all time on a level beyond chronoa and towa who can stop and manipulate it on dragon balls multiverse level?

Mechi would literally scale to everyone.

The second one isnt without time even though it doesn't appear on the scrolls of history and eternity where time is recorded, time is stated to not exist, and is stated multiple times to be a world without time which allows Goku to use SSJ4?

Literally every void as shown and stated multiple times is outside of time. When Demigra was trapped in there as a wizard he couldnt do anything. When he ascended and gained powers he could finally move. You cant just say "no" and consider that as a debunk

Cal, why you still not accepting my debate; dad? Cant be too hard to prove All of Pokemon > Xeno Goku outside of the wiki :)
 
Just because your called a God Bird of Time, control on a high level, and create Time =/= being Time itself, you pretty much need a direct statement of being Time to have that.
 
So since time comes and is birthed through toki toki, he isnt time? And his existence literally keeps time stable and his death will result in the destruction of time?

Anyway, as pretty much said. Someone make a thread for the void timeless nonsense or give dbh infinite speed
 
Creating Time =/= being Time, the same with the keeping stable, you can do that without being Time itself, the third one might be evidence to support a statement of being Time, but on its own it could just be Time on a Existence that isn't Time to exist like how Toki-Toki keeps Time stable and Time falling apart without it Existence to make it stable.
 
I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion.
 
In fairness, It is quite funny how the timeless voids thing was created as a result of DBH to not be upgraded to Infinite Speed last year but then this year, being reversed when they meet it.
 
The real cal howard said:
Ah yeah. The cake that by your logic means that even the rel+ Pokemon should be downgraded as a Snivy can see them. Or the fact that they're counter attacking 2-Bs at all. Bet I can also say that DBS isn't infinite or even MFTL+ because Krillin and Gohan can see them.
When DBH has the cast be higher dimensional, predate the concept of time, and scales to fighting said concept of time as well as a being that straight up lacks the concept of spacetime, on top of the void feats, then hit me up. But until then, don't compare apples to oranges.
Click to expand...
Yeah, almost like by any logic the pokemon wank got out of control, have fun with your infinit speed normal human but don't complain when people want other vers held up to the same standard.

DBS isn't infinite speed but they are certainly MFTL, Krillin has kept up in speed with Goku since Dragon Ball, so i don't see your point.

Say Hello to Toki Toki and a shit ton of characters who greatly predate him and 2 characters who's role was litteraly to raise him, you're so biased and don't know what you're talking about just because someone mentionned your pet vers it's hilarious.

Pretending they aren't infinit speed by our standard when everyone agreed that the standard had to change AGAIN if they were refused because they meet every criteria is really ridiculous.

And once again, even if we pretended all your points worked, it still wouldn't change a thing to everyone's point in this thread but i guesse that's what happens when someone start arguing on a thread just because their pet vers was off handedly mentionned.
 
Completely missed the point there. But instead, you double down on what you're saying. Superman is normal human because Batman spots him. Else have fun with your MFTL+ Batman.

Nice try. I addressed Tokitoki. People coming before his straight up means he isn't time. I've played Xenoverse to completion. I'm not in the dark. Don't talk to me about bias and pet verses when every time dragon ball comes up you have to get super confrontational. I wasn't even talking to you originally, but you decided to get snarky to begin with, so here we are.

Did you even read my first post? I said from the very beginning when this was made the first gosh darned time back years ago when it was made by Ever that I wasn't against this and was neutral at worst. But no, you had to keep on bringing Pokémon into it, and Cal has to always be against Dragon Ball. Instead, people would rather call double standard and not look into the feats themselves. "Pokémon has five characters that scale to infinite despite their true forms being immeasurable so why can't we have our fifty be infinite." I wouldn't have said jack if you didn't claim that, and I would've left it at the original comment if you didn't get snarky. Zenkai and I are cool and can talk with each other like that. You and I so far have been oil and water, but you still decide to go out of your way to talk dirty.
 
The real cal howard said:
Completely missed the point there. But instead, you double down on what you're saying. Superman is normal human because Batman spots him. Else have fun with your MFTL+ Batman.
Nice try. I addressed Tokitoki. People coming before his straight up means he isn't time. Don't talk to me about bias and pet verses when every time dragon ball comes up you have to get super confrontational. I don't mind matching you.

Did you even read my first post? I said from the very beginning when this was made the first gosh darned time I wasn't against this and was neutral at worst. But no, you had to keep on bringing Pokémon into it, and Cal has to always be against Dragon Ball.
Click to expand...
Except Batman never saw Superman with his naked eye as he was going at full speed while your IS pokemon have no reason to slow especialy in front of what is equivalent to insects, also some version of superman use warp stuff, not actual superspeed anyway.

No, you didn't address it, you just said 'no', that isn't an argument, Toki Toki is straight up stated to be all that, just saying 'no but it works for my pet' doesn't work.

Arceus came before Dialga so i guesse Dialga isn't anything either.

yeah, saying 'no u' is such a good point but the problem is you don't see me pop up in unrelated thread just because there is two lines mentionning dragon ball.

I haven't brought it up and like three people wrote three lines about it and Kingdom Hearts and there you went.

I never said you were always against dragon ball but it's sure annoying how you always act and try to establish a superiority for your pet vers in general, especialy when your excuse is as flimsy as 'they made 3 lines about it'/
 
I don't really have any problems with the DBH god-tiers having Infinite Speed if the standards remain as they are, but we might as well make them more strict and cull ninety nine percent of the Infinite Speedsters in the site, too, and leave only a tiny handful of 'true abstract entities/Chinese Xianxia fodder' levels in that category.
 
Kepekley23 said:
I don't really have any problems with the DBH god-tiers having Infinite Speed if the standards remain as they are, but we might as well make them more strict and cull ninety nine percent of the Infinite Speedsters in the site, too, and leave only tiny handful of 'true abstract entities/Chinese Xianxia fodder' levels in that category.
Click to expand...
So which path is it currently leaning towards?
 
It would be a pretty bad idea, yes. Especially with the whole forum migration going on atm.

Although at this point, I am afraid it is either one or the other.
 
Kepekley23 said:
I don't really have any problems with the DBH god-tiers having Infinite Speed if the standards remain as they are, but we might as well make them more strict and cull ninety nine percent of the Infinite Speedsters in the site, too, and leave only a tiny handful of 'true abstract entities/Chinese Xianxia fodder' levels in that category.
Click to expand...
Kep is right, we either upgrade Dragon Ball or downgrade 99% of the people who have infinite speed.
 
I'm with Matt an agree with getting rid of any speed rating that comes from moving in a void or nonexistent realms; if going to do that, at least expect the verse saying IS is necessary to do so.
 
@Anto right, can you make a separate thread about the whole stuff? talking about that here is not necessary since the consentement of this thread is basically what we should do about the Timeless void.
 
Half the problem is that half the claims that keep being made about the DBH Gods are born solely from out of context things and hyperboles that are extrapolated.

So yeah, "Higher Dimensional, Predate the concept of time!!!" sound like good things but they're not at all true.
 
Kep is right, we either upgrade Dragon Ball or downgrade 99% of the people who have infinite speed.

The fact people who support the upgrade are upvoting me disturbs me, because I'm saying we should downgrade tons of verses instead of upgrading.
 
Your comment doesn't really make that apparent.

Given I explicity said I support Matt, and say we either upgrade Dragon Ball or downgrade 99% of other verses with Infinite speed, it's pretty obvious what I meant: downgrade time.
 
You didn't say you explicitly supported Matt in that specific comment. If someone didn't see your earlier comment then it'd seem more in favor of it being a dumb change since that's the popular consensus.
 
There are plenty of Infinite speed verses I wouldn't mind downgrading if the revision goes through, but context is more important than poetic language I will say.
 
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