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Since the tiering system was applied this thread had to be made sooner or later. The question is the good old: When do higher-dimensional characters, and their equivalents, automatically resist hax from lesser Tiers and when do they not?
The tiering revisions changed the way that works to some extent, so @Ultima_Reality and I thought we should talk about the details regarding that once more.
To explain my stance I will look at three cases:
For such characters, there is generally no reason to assume that they take hax they aren't shown to exist better than any other character. The exception would be hax that only circumvents durability to a limited extent, such as attacks that target the inner organs directly or pressure points, as the durability is too high to deal even the tiny bit of damage necessary for those to have an effect. That kind of hax is generally resisted by all characters with durability on a higher level of infinity than that of the attacker.
In the reality-fiction case one can say that no normal hax from the lesser plane of reality should be effective under normal circumstances. That's because all such attacks would be mere fiction to the character on the higher plane. Additionally, the true form of the character would exist outside the fiction and hence usually be outside of the attacker's range.
There can be some rare exceptions to this rule, though. For example, if the lesser plane of reality is something like a VR game and the higher plane character enters that game by essentially transferring their consciousness inside, then it is reasonable to assume that in doing so they expose themself to the risk of the mind being attacked by lesser reality mind manipulation. They themself have essentially lowered their level of existence in that regard.
A second, similar, notable exception would be mind manipulating images or sound, which have their mind manipulating property not due to supernatural power but solely due to how they look (e.g. because they contain subliminal messages) could work. If the higher plane character for examples sees such an image as something that for them is just a book or a movie or a game, they would still see it to full effect.
That is of course only effective if the attacked characters are just on a higher level of reality, but are not indicated to be special beings with minds of a higher-order as well.
As such things like soul and mind hax would likely not work. If the soul/mind is higher-dimensional like the body of the higher dimensional character, only an infinitely small fraction of the full thing could be affected. If the soul/mind isn't higher dimensional too, which is also a possibility for non-physical minds and for souls, then the probability that they are located in specifically in the part of the character's body that intersects with the low dimensional plane is 0% (infinitely unlikely). As such things like this shouldn't work for range considerations.
Hax that deals more physical damage, like for instance spatial cutting or (physical) existence erasure, would only affect an infinitely thin plane of the character, essentially only resulting in an infinitely thin cut. Technically, such a cut is (infinitely) unlikely to hit even a single atom or even quant in the higher dimensional characters body. As such the infinitely thin slice would be too thin to deal any significant damage. Fiction might derivate from this, though, and consider it as bisecting the character. Even in such a case no damage more than said bisection could be dealt.
Lastly, hax like poison would be infinitely diluted in the higher-dimensional character's body and should hence likely not work.
In summary, one could say that higher-dimensional characters resist most lower-dimensional hax, but not due to the lack of potency of the hax, but due to a lack of a large enough AoE/range of the ability used.
Generally speaking, a lower-dimensional character that manages to harm a higher dimensional one, would only get an upgrade to the AoE/range of their hax to be higher-dimensional. It can't generally be considered to be more powerful than all or most lower-dimensional versions anymore. At least by default. It's another matter if the feat generally qualifies for a higher tier by the size of the effect, such as using EE on a character the size of a higher-dimensional universe.
Those that only affected characters with higher tier stats, but without a reason to assume resistance, would not be considered smurf at all.
Only those that affected a being on a higher plane of existence, like in the reality-fiction example, can by default be considered to have hax on a full Tier 2/1/0 level that is more powerful than regular lower plane hax. And that only if it's not one of the exceptions mentioned regarding their resistances.
If this is agreed upon a corresponding explanation should be added to the tiering system FAQ.
What do you think, everyone?
The tiering revisions changed the way that works to some extent, so @Ultima_Reality and I thought we should talk about the details regarding that once more.
To explain my stance I will look at three cases:
1. In Stats Only
These are characters who are Tier 2/1/0 only in terms of stats. I.e. they can destroy things on that tier and tank such attacks, but they don't exist on some higher plane of reality or are higher dimensional in nature.For such characters, there is generally no reason to assume that they take hax they aren't shown to exist better than any other character. The exception would be hax that only circumvents durability to a limited extent, such as attacks that target the inner organs directly or pressure points, as the durability is too high to deal even the tiny bit of damage necessary for those to have an effect. That kind of hax is generally resisted by all characters with durability on a higher level of infinity than that of the attacker.
2. Higher Plane of Existence (on the example of reality-fiction difference)
Now there are many ways a character can exist on a higher plane of existence. Too many to go through them all. The case of a character seeing our universe as nothing but fiction is probably the most common, though, and should work as a good example that other cases can be compared to in order to figure out how hax interacts with them.In the reality-fiction case one can say that no normal hax from the lesser plane of reality should be effective under normal circumstances. That's because all such attacks would be mere fiction to the character on the higher plane. Additionally, the true form of the character would exist outside the fiction and hence usually be outside of the attacker's range.
There can be some rare exceptions to this rule, though. For example, if the lesser plane of reality is something like a VR game and the higher plane character enters that game by essentially transferring their consciousness inside, then it is reasonable to assume that in doing so they expose themself to the risk of the mind being attacked by lesser reality mind manipulation. They themself have essentially lowered their level of existence in that regard.
A second, similar, notable exception would be mind manipulating images or sound, which have their mind manipulating property not due to supernatural power but solely due to how they look (e.g. because they contain subliminal messages) could work. If the higher plane character for examples sees such an image as something that for them is just a book or a movie or a game, they would still see it to full effect.
That is of course only effective if the attacked characters are just on a higher level of reality, but are not indicated to be special beings with minds of a higher-order as well.
3. Higher Dimensional Existence
Lastly, we come to characters with higher-dimensional bodies in the geometrical sense. Generally higher dimensional bodies are somewhat harder to properly effect due to size and layout. A lower-dimensional character can at best hope to affect an infinitely thin slice of the higher dimensional characters body. The 99.9999999...% of the body that aren't in this size, are simply out of the characters range.As such things like soul and mind hax would likely not work. If the soul/mind is higher-dimensional like the body of the higher dimensional character, only an infinitely small fraction of the full thing could be affected. If the soul/mind isn't higher dimensional too, which is also a possibility for non-physical minds and for souls, then the probability that they are located in specifically in the part of the character's body that intersects with the low dimensional plane is 0% (infinitely unlikely). As such things like this shouldn't work for range considerations.
Hax that deals more physical damage, like for instance spatial cutting or (physical) existence erasure, would only affect an infinitely thin plane of the character, essentially only resulting in an infinitely thin cut. Technically, such a cut is (infinitely) unlikely to hit even a single atom or even quant in the higher dimensional characters body. As such the infinitely thin slice would be too thin to deal any significant damage. Fiction might derivate from this, though, and consider it as bisecting the character. Even in such a case no damage more than said bisection could be dealt.
Lastly, hax like poison would be infinitely diluted in the higher-dimensional character's body and should hence likely not work.
In summary, one could say that higher-dimensional characters resist most lower-dimensional hax, but not due to the lack of potency of the hax, but due to a lack of a large enough AoE/range of the ability used.
Impact on Smurfs
This revision also has a potential impact on which abilities that harmed Tier 2/1/0 characters would be considered smurf and in which way.Generally speaking, a lower-dimensional character that manages to harm a higher dimensional one, would only get an upgrade to the AoE/range of their hax to be higher-dimensional. It can't generally be considered to be more powerful than all or most lower-dimensional versions anymore. At least by default. It's another matter if the feat generally qualifies for a higher tier by the size of the effect, such as using EE on a character the size of a higher-dimensional universe.
Those that only affected characters with higher tier stats, but without a reason to assume resistance, would not be considered smurf at all.
Only those that affected a being on a higher plane of existence, like in the reality-fiction example, can by default be considered to have hax on a full Tier 2/1/0 level that is more powerful than regular lower plane hax. And that only if it's not one of the exceptions mentioned regarding their resistances.
If this is agreed upon a corresponding explanation should be added to the tiering system FAQ.
What do you think, everyone?
