Happy New Year From Kishimoto

[Tomboy11]

I'm neutral, I am not really sure. The manga I know is a primary canon while databook is secondary, but at the same time, the latter is more recent. But I think it should probably depend on the translation legitimacy. I have seen lightspeed translated inaccurately as "Lightning speed" for a different verse before. Likewise, I might have also heard of the opposite happening; lightning bolt speed being treated as lightspeed.

Well on the part on if the translation are good
From the raw arc drop for the two light speed statement for kirini the raw comes out as light speed/ speed of light
And on the statement from zetus in the manga is kinda convoluted due to the fact he had no knowledge on the actual speed nor power of Kirin but Just lightning in general
Even being shocked that it used all the electricity discharge from the cloud


But I understand your neutrality

 

[GTsek]

I'm neutral, I am not really sure. The manga I know is a primary canon while databook is secondary, but at the same time, the latter is more recent. But I think it should probably depend on the translation legitimacy. I have seen lightspeed translated inaccurately as "Lightning speed" for a different verse before. Likewise, I might have also heard of the opposite happening; lightning bolt speed being treated as lightspeed.

Arc translated that, and it's correct, we have Kanji for the speed of light. The source is the author himself, and an isolated statement in one guide can be debatable if it is a Hyperbole or not, but2 statement in 2 different guides with a 2 year gap between one and the other is different, it's literally the author confirming again that it's a SoL technique, if it was just a Hyperbole he wouldn't repeat it. In the 2° Fanbook in the area that was reserved for the voting result of the best techniques, he doesn't give relevant information about any of the techniques, but in Kirin he makes a point of remembering that it's the speed of light. There are 2 quotes from the author versus a statement from Zetsu, who is not a reliable character, he didn't know Kirin, the author know, and even called him speed of light.

 

[Godernet]

ya'll need to relax and stop jumping him

just let him read Arc's proposal that goes over all of our arguments.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I also recall statements that the speed of a lightning bolt can vary greatly, some can go as around 80,000 and something meters per second but there also exist Sub-Relativistic Lightning bolts, and based on Kirin's description, it should be above even those given the KE result. Of course, the in manga statements wouldn't justify lightspeed, but at minimum it should be noticeably faster than any traditional lightning bolt. If Word of God is outright stating 2 years later to be lightspeed outright, then I can't disagree too much with that. Also, even "Lightning" statements could be a back up for lightspeed under the possibility that people are referring to the flashes of lightning as opposed to the lightning bolt. They don't always specify that but of course plenty of non-scientists think lightning bolts are the same as light speeds due to them not knowing the difference between the flashes and the bolts. For all we know, he could have been stressed/rushed while writing the manga and/or didn't know the difference back then but learned the difference and/or was in a more self paced setting when writing the guidebook.

 

[Godernet]

I also recall statements that the speed of a lightning bolt can vary greatly, some can go as around 80,000 and something meters per second but there also exist Sub-Relativistic Lightning bolts, and based on Kirin's description, it should be above even those given the KE result. Of course, the in manga statements wouldn't justify lightspeed, but at minimum it should be noticeably faster than any traditional lightning bolt. If Word of God is outright stating 2 years later to be lightspeed outright, then I can't disagree too much with that. Also, even "Lightning" statements could be a back up for lightspeed under the possibility that people are referring to the flashes of lightning as opposed to the lightning bolt. They don't always specify that but of course plenty of non-scientists think lightning bolts are the same as light speeds due to them not knowing the difference between the flashes and the bolts. For all we know, he could have been stressed/rushed while writing the manga and/or didn't know the difference back then but learned the difference and/or was in a more self paced setting when writing the guidebook.

this interpretation would definitely make more sense with why Kishi had Zetsu claim lightning is undodgeable when in earlier parts of his series he had Guy explain that it was very possible for even lesser characters like Kakashi to do so.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I don't know much about all this, but I'll give my short two cents on it

World of God that has 2 Light Speed Statements is more valid than a character like Zetsu calling it Lightning Speed

 

[Godernet]

How do you feel we should rate this? as a full SOL Rating, Likely SOL, or Possibly SOL?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

How do you feel we should rate this? as a full SOL Rating, Likely SOL, or Possibly SOL?

Well the word of god just calls it straight up light speed twice, so Kirin itself would be fully light speed

Why is that so hard to comprehend?

 

[Damage3245]

this interpretation would definitely make more sense with why Kishi had Zetsu claim lightning is undodgeable when in earlier parts of his series he had Guy explain that it was very possible for even lesser characters like Kakashi to do so.

No, Guy does not ever say that... Stop lying.

 

[Godernet]

Why is that so hard to comprehend?

 

[Godernet]

No, Guy does not ever say that... Stop lying.

Guy said Kakashi chopped lightning. that is a greater feat than just reacting or avoiding lightning. Guy had no doubts in Kakashi's ability to do this. How am I lying?

 

[Damage3245]

"Possibly SOL" is the only rating I would accept as a compromise if I had no other choice.

Guy said Kakashi chopped lightning. that is a greater feat than just reacting or avoiding lightning. Guy had no doubts in Kakashi's ability to do this. How am I lying?

Because that has nothing to do with dodging, and we don't know the circumstances of the feat. Did the lightning start at a further distance from Kakashi than Kirin did for Itachi? Perfectly possible since we don't know anything about it or how it was done.

 

[Hasty12345]

i don't see a need to compromise for completely debunked arguments

 

[Tomboy11]

We have gone over translation legitimacy if you would like to get a full idea of our current stance Arc has the best interpretation so far.

Well the word of god just calls it straight up light speed twice, so Kirin itself would be fully light speed

Why is that so hard to comprehend?

So u agree with it nice.
You guys Should count another admin vote

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

So u agree with the thread

Yeah, seems pretty straightforward that Kirin is light speed

 

[Damage3245]

Yeah, seems pretty straightforward that Kirin is light speed

If you go by databooks exclusively sure. All of the context in the original manga supports lightning speed.

The only way this makes sense is if all lightning in Naruto was light speed.

 

[Tomboy11]

Omo why I dey spag like this

 

[ImmortalDread]

In short, I think the information in the manga takes priority over the databook.

You think, or the standards says so? If it is the latter, mind showing an evidence for it?

 

[Tomboy11]

Yeah, seems pretty straightforward that Kirin is light speed

Niceeeeeeee

 

[Tomboy11]

You think, or the standards says so? If it is the latter, mind showing an evidence for it?

I think damage is appealing to tradition on this stuff
We already explained how in this case zetus Isn't really reliable but it's cool

Let's just get all the admin votes and end this

 

[ImmortalDread]

I would appreciate the opportunity to review any evidence supporting the claims made by @Damage3245. In order to properly assess the validity of these claims, it would be helpful to have input directly from the individual in question.

Is it possible to arrange for @Damage3245 to provide this information?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I would appreciate the opportunity to review any evidence supporting the claims made by @Damage3245. In order to properly assess the validity of these claims, it would be helpful to have input directly from the individual in question.

Is it possible to arrange for @Damage3245 to provide this information?

If you scroll up a little bit damage made a large post doesn’t take that long to find it just control F his name

 

[ImmortalDread]

If you scroll up a little bit damage made a large post doesn’t take that long to find it just control F his name

Can you link it? I would like to see which standard states this. If you don't mind.

 

[Deceived3596]

Can you link it? I would like to see which standard states this. If you don't mind.

Here

 

[Halkum145]

Messi > ronaldo

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

If you go by databooks exclusively sure. All of the context in the original manga supports lightning speed.

The only way this makes sense is if all lightning in Naruto was light speed.

Word of God>In Manga Context

In Rave Master, characters say that someone moved at the speed of sound and then the author went on to say at the end of that chapter that the character doesn't actually move that fast at that point in time. So irregardless of what characters say within the Manga, the Author's statements take precedence

 

[ImmortalDread]

There are no standards of this. Ya, I agree with @Deceived3596 and @DemonGodMitchAubin on this take, as long as the standards of the claim does not exist.

 

[Damage3245]

Looks like it is going to go through. Oh well.

If this ends up leading to some transparently obvious attempt to wank the verse later down the line, I'll remember this thread.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

if someone tries to scale people to Kirin I’ll call up 55th and give them the 3 meat special.

 

[Deceived3596]

if someone tries to scale people to Kirin I’ll call up 55th and give them the 3 meat special.

Doesn't Itachi directly scale from/to Kirin?

 

[theultimate5105]

Sasuke scales to Kirin because he controlled it, a Large portion of the shippuden cast can keep up with him, everyone is FTL
anyways I still agree on LS for Kirin

 

[Damage3245]

Doesn't Itachi directly scale from/to Kirin?

Not really, no.

 

[Godernet]

I mean scaling changes will probably just be relativistic stuff for Itachi/EMS Sasuke perception. Still needs a calc tho.

Maybe even the activation speed of Susanoo

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Considering Itachi barely reacted to summon his Susano’o to block in when it had like damn near a km of distance to travel first, it might not even result in like sub-rel or stuff like that. Or you can make the case Itachi started to prepare a block when Sasuke started talking about it.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Looks like it is going to go through. Oh well.

If this ends up leading to some transparently obvious attempt to wank the verse later down the line, I'll remember this thread.

Or provide the standard you are claiming exists or evidence to support its existence. Without this information, it is difficult to understand the basis for your claim or to consider it as credible as “Word of God” statements.

 

[Damage3245]

Or provide the standard you are claiming exists or evidence to support its existence. Without this information, it is difficult to understand the basis for your claim or to consider it as credible as “Word of God” statements.

From the "Canon" page:

The primary canon is the source material first released (with few possible exceptions), with the other author works being secondary canon.

When different source materials give different versions of the same feat, and by that they contradict each other in the depiction of the feat, the primary canon takes precedence over the secondary canon.

Databooks are considered secondary canon since scans tend to contradict them.

 

[Damage3245]

@DarkDragonMedeus May I ask what you think about what the Canon page says about this? Quoted the relevant passages above. ^

 

[GTsek]

Well, we already have a verdict, as Tempest withdrew the vote, and we have the votes of Mitch and DDM, added with those of Shadow and Tracer, we have 4 votes in favor. So this can be applied if there are no more objections. I agree with Mitch's thoughts and I think DDM implies the same: Word of God >> Context of the characters. So how are we putting the authors word above, so the rating must be full Speed of Light

 

[ImmortalDread]

You forget the fact that this note also exists.

The primary canon is the source material first released (with few possible exceptions), with the other author works being secondary canon.

When different source materials give different versions of the same feat, and by that they contradict each other in the depiction of the feat, the primary canon takes precedence over the secondary canon.

If the feat is correctly depicted over multiple canons any of these can be used to judge the feat. Should different results be reached by judging the feat through multiple canons, the result of the primary canon will have priority.

So for most manga series, that means the original manga is canonical, while the anime is not (since the anime is simply an adaptation of the manga made by others). Databooks are considered secondary canon since scans tend to contradict them. It should be noted that this is often evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

 

[Tomboy11]

I would appreciate the opportunity to review any evidence supporting the claims made by @Damage3245. In order to properly assess the validity of these claims, it would be helpful to have input directly from the individual in question.

Is it possible to arrange for @Damage3245 to provide this information?

Considering Itachi barely reacted to summon his Susano’o to block in when it had like damn near a km of distance to travel first, it might not even result in like sub-rel or stuff like that. Or you can make the case Itachi started to prepare a block when Sasuke started talking about it.

It Just gives sasuke LS attack speed not even sure how this would even scale to any
Right now