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- #121
Yeah, Haku being this Jonin+ level person is far more consistent than him being comparable to Genin Sasuke.
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Haku Upgrade
- Thread starter LordTracer
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This is off-topic but should we change the name of the page from Haku to Haku (Naruto)? I'm asking because there seems to be another Haku on this wiki: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Haku_(Spirited_Away).
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Either that or a disambiguation page me thinks
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Good point
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I can't see it by the edit option on the page. Might be something not everyone is just allowed to do, or I'm missing it
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- Thread starter
- #128
There's a specific thread where you can suggest changing the name of a page, but I don't know where it is.
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I've also made a disambiguation page to link to both profiles.
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- #132
So back on topic, what problems are there with 7-C/MHS+ Haku that haven't been gone over already?
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@LordTracer; it would probably be a good idea to get Kepekley's opinion on this.
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- #136
If that's necessary, sure. That's not that big of a difference anyways.
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Haku durability should be higher -> Takes a punch in the face from Initial Jinchüriki Form Naruto and is still standing (Naruto with nine tails chakra is capable of this)
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- Thread starter
- #138
Pretty sure that feat was calced already at Multi-City Block level, which is less than what Haku's durability would be anyways.
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There will be a huge AP revision for the whole verse soon
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- Thread starter
- #141
Is there an ETA on that, btw?
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- #142
Bump
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- #144
Oh, yeah, I completely forgot to do that.
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- #146
Thank you.
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The answer is the same as before.
Nah, never, nada, no way, is just Naruto having a brain fart and making absolutely no sense.
Granted, if can lean into the idea of just scaling him up and not scaling anyone to him, but I am vehemently against this. This is no different from Gamabunta not getting one shot to Oblivion by Shukaku, inconsistency.
And as for what I mean, let me put it this way... Zabuza never says anything even similar to "he was holding back" but that he is pained fighting them and Sasuke directly says no to Sakura's "you evaded any blows to critical areas!" comment. So what makes sense:
A) Haku was never going all out, prolonging the fight with Sasuke and draining his reserves despite the fact Zabuza was also in danger fighting Kakashi.
B) He never even held back, but rather never tried any lethal attack (we literally see Haku is accurate enough to put someone in a death like state with even a Jonin non the wiser people, come on) by "holding back" and never from the start planning to give any killing blow. Hence Sasuke barely incurring any actual damage but still looking dead like Zabuza, except that would have never happened had Haku not forced him not to evade by attacking Naruto and the fact he needed his mirrors to even intercept Kakashi, the dude he could totally beat according to Zabuza.
Why does holding back implicate using less power, when we have seen Haku can easily make you pass out or outright kill you, and the only holding back he could have done in the dome was missing Sasuke's vitals? You could easily take Sasuke's statement as "from the start he wasn't trying to kill me", which makes more sense he was trying to injure him enough to put him out of commission or land a nice blow with a needle to get him out of the fight since, as Zabuza put it, "fighting you kids pained him". The only things against this are two statements from Zabuza that are never proven right, and the War Arc which is much, much easier to call a plain inconsistency. Even his "jutsu" being better is a terrible piece of proof when this was when Kekkei Genkai were treated like the jackpot of a Lottery.
Nah, never, nada, no way, is just Naruto having a brain fart and making absolutely no sense.
Granted, if can lean into the idea of just scaling him up and not scaling anyone to him, but I am vehemently against this. This is no different from Gamabunta not getting one shot to Oblivion by Shukaku, inconsistency.
And as for what I mean, let me put it this way... Zabuza never says anything even similar to "he was holding back" but that he is pained fighting them and Sasuke directly says no to Sakura's "you evaded any blows to critical areas!" comment. So what makes sense:
A) Haku was never going all out, prolonging the fight with Sasuke and draining his reserves despite the fact Zabuza was also in danger fighting Kakashi.
B) He never even held back, but rather never tried any lethal attack (we literally see Haku is accurate enough to put someone in a death like state with even a Jonin non the wiser people, come on) by "holding back" and never from the start planning to give any killing blow. Hence Sasuke barely incurring any actual damage but still looking dead like Zabuza, except that would have never happened had Haku not forced him not to evade by attacking Naruto and the fact he needed his mirrors to even intercept Kakashi, the dude he could totally beat according to Zabuza.
Why does holding back implicate using less power, when we have seen Haku can easily make you pass out or outright kill you, and the only holding back he could have done in the dome was missing Sasuke's vitals? You could easily take Sasuke's statement as "from the start he wasn't trying to kill me", which makes more sense he was trying to injure him enough to put him out of commission or land a nice blow with a needle to get him out of the fight since, as Zabuza put it, "fighting you kids pained him". The only things against this are two statements from Zabuza that are never proven right, and the War Arc which is much, much easier to call a plain inconsistency. Even his "jutsu" being better is a terrible piece of proof when this was when Kekkei Genkai were treated like the jackpot of a Lottery.
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@LSirLancelotDuLacl
The case with Shukaku can be attributed to Kishimoto not having had a concrete idea of how strong Shukaku is supposed to be yet. The feat that puts Shukaku on his current tier didn't happen until much later after all. The same cannot be said for Haku in the War Arc.
Your point regarding A) makes in a way sense but there are also arguments against that. While ending things quickly might have been beneficial to Zabuza, Haku could perfetly afford taking his time since Zabuza wasn't about to lose to Kakashi yet and he had no reason to assume that this would happen.
Take a look at this chapter from page 58 to 64: https://naruto-mangaonline.com/manga/naruto-chapter-30/
Haku was several meters away from Zabuza and Kakashi. It makes perfect sense for Haku to require his mirrors in order to intercept Raikiri from that distance. Before that he didn't even fight Kakashi so nothing indicates that he would have needed his mirrors in order to intercept Raikiri if he had been closer.
Holding back in a fight pretty much always holds the implication of using less power. Not aiming for vitals alone can already be seen as holding back but that doesn't mean that this was all he did.
The case with Shukaku can be attributed to Kishimoto not having had a concrete idea of how strong Shukaku is supposed to be yet. The feat that puts Shukaku on his current tier didn't happen until much later after all. The same cannot be said for Haku in the War Arc.
Your point regarding A) makes in a way sense but there are also arguments against that. While ending things quickly might have been beneficial to Zabuza, Haku could perfetly afford taking his time since Zabuza wasn't about to lose to Kakashi yet and he had no reason to assume that this would happen.
Take a look at this chapter from page 58 to 64: https://naruto-mangaonline.com/manga/naruto-chapter-30/
Haku was several meters away from Zabuza and Kakashi. It makes perfect sense for Haku to require his mirrors in order to intercept Raikiri from that distance. Before that he didn't even fight Kakashi so nothing indicates that he would have needed his mirrors in order to intercept Raikiri if he had been closer.
Holding back in a fight pretty much always holds the implication of using less power. Not aiming for vitals alone can already be seen as holding back but that doesn't mean that this was all he did.
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Please don't quote entire walls of text.
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Yes, thank you.
Normally if I'm responding to someone who has a huge post I will either quote the most relevant bits or start my post with @NehzXZX for example.
Normally if I'm responding to someone who has a huge post I will either quote the most relevant bits or start my post with @NehzXZX for example.
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.... Yes, it is.
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- Thread starter
- #157
Even if you don't want to say Haku was holding back exactly, he wasn't trying to kill Sasuke, that basically gets the same point across that Haku >>> Sasuke, and is much more consistently shown to be Jonin-Jonin+ level.
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Yeah, I get that Naruto is incosistent, but that really shouldn't be the point here in VS. battles. This character has shown he is comfortably in the same league with end series characters, but because of the inconsistent source you ignore solid feats to condemn him to tier 8, making him look a lot weaker than he should be.
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@ItsOnlyDanny3; we do that quite a lot here at VS Battles Wiki though. See Master Roshi being rated as City level despite his feat of destroying the Moon.
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