Edo Tensei Revision

[Testarossa002]

This thread aims to argue that Kabuto’s version of Edo Tensei reanimations possess power levels that are at least equal to those of their living counterparts at their peak.
Primary Evidence:
Edo Mu is explicitly stated to retain the same level of power he had during his lifetime.

Secondary Evidence:
1. Kakashi and Zabuza: During their encounter, Edo Zabuza was shown to be relatively comparable to Kakashi in strength. Even assuming Kakashi hadn't significantly improved since their previous battle, he should still be capable of defeating a weakened version of Zabuza. This suggests that Edo Zabuza was at or near his original strength.
2. Orochimaru: Following his resurrection, Orochimaru used the Edo Tensei technique to revive the previous four Hokage. After more than two years of additional research, his version of the technique had been refined, with Tobirama explicitly noting that he felt close to his original power level. Kabuto, who initially had access to all of Orochimaru’s research, further advanced the technique beyond its previous limits. This supports the argument that Kabuto’s version of Edo Tensei could revive individuals at or near their prime strength.

There are other secondary evidences but this should be enough for now
Credits to @UchihaSlayer96 for his help putting this together

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

i talked to slayer about this before, so i agree

 

[DavidTPPM]

I think a point could also be made about Hiashi and Hizashi. They were virtually equal when alive but Hizashi could still keep up with Hiashi offscreen for the entirety of Team 10 vs Asuma until Choji helped restrict him.


It's a bit weaker since only the anime shows them outright fighting but all things considered it does really seem like they remained equals even during edo tensei.

 

[Purgy]

This thread aims to argue that Kabuto’s version of Edo Tensei reanimations possess power levels that are at least equal to those of their living counterparts at their peak.

This supports the argument that Kabuto’s version of Edo Tensei could revive individuals at or near their prime strength.

Aren't these claims you're making a bit contradictory? You say at least equal to, meaning equal or greater, and then you say near or equal, meaning equal or less.

Also, both Tobirama's statement that you posted and Madara's statement pretty objectively refute the idea that they're revived at equal, let alone greater strength to that of their prime, don't they?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I agree.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

This thread aims to argue that Kabuto’s version of Edo Tensei reanimations possess power levels that are at least equal to those of their living counterparts at their peak.
Primary Evidence:
Edo Mu is explicitly stated to retain the same level of power he had during his lifetime.

This statement would still make sense if he was comparable but slightly inferior (which is the lore of how Edo Tensei is). Hiruzen made a similar statement about Minato's speed, despite us knowing clearly that Orochimaru's Edo Tensei didn't bring the Hokage back at full power.

Secondary Evidence:
1. Kakashi and Zabuza: During their encounter, Edo Zabuza was shown to be relatively comparable to Kakashi in strength. Even assuming Kakashi hadn't significantly improved since their previous battle, he should still be capable of defeating a weakened version of Zabuza. This suggests that Edo Zabuza was at or near his original strength.

I don't disagree that he's near his original strength (cause again, that's what Edo Tensei does, does not revive people at 100% strength), but this fight is not a good example to prove it. This is one of the easiest mental nerfs to argue in the series. Kakashi is constantly thinking about his past with Zabuza and Haku and even spaces out a few times. To provide narrative support for Kakashi being mentally nerfed, mental warfare was literally the point of Kabuto letting some Edos retain their personalities (and given Kakashi's reaction after the fight, Kabuto clearly did "agitate" him).

Not to mention that his scaling to Kage levels of strength at this point (being proposed as Hokage, fighting Pain, fighting V2 Jinchuriki the next day) is inconsistent with him staying the same strength as his rusty Land of Waves self.

As the cherry on top, Kakashi's movements were likely nerfed to some extent in the instance he got tagged by Zabuza by Ensui's Shadow Possession, which is really the only solid feat Zabuza has against him.

2. Orochimaru: Following his resurrection, Orochimaru used the Edo Tensei technique to revive the previous four Hokage. After more than two years of additional research, his version of the technique had been refined, with Tobirama explicitly noting that he felt close to his original power level. Kabuto, who initially had access to all of Orochimaru’s research, further advanced the technique beyond its previous limits. This supports the argument that Kabuto’s version of Edo Tensei could revive individuals at or near their prime strength.

Orochimaru absorbed Kabuto's knowledge, so he should have this supposed further research under his belt by the time he revived the Hokage.

I'd also like to note that Madara, despite being specially crafted to be enhanced, was still weaker than his alive self as an Edo.

So yeah, I disagree with Edo=Alive. They're just close.

 

[Nierre]

Also disagree. As Sparkle said they're close, but they're not equal to their alive counterparts.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

There's things in Sparkle's post that I don't really agree with, but I had completely forgotten about the Hiruzen statement and Orochimaru obtaining Kabuto's knowledge, and those are enough to sway my opinion. So there's no need to get into fruitless debates lol.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

There's things in Sparkle's post that I don't really agree with, but I had completely forgotten about the Hiruzen statement and Orochimaru obtaining Kabuto's knowledge, and those are enough to sway my opinion. So there's no need to get into fruitless debates lol.

There's something I could send in response to this but it's very instigatory

 

[Testarossa002]

Damn it Sparkle
Alright, at the very least, Kabuto's jutsu should be at around the same level of proficiency as Orochimaru's
Meaning, very close to the power of alive versions

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Damn it Sparkle

Happy to be of service

Alright, at the very least, Kabuto's jutsu should be at around the same level of proficiency as Orochimaru's
Meaning, very close to the power of alive versions

Sure

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Damn it Sparkle
Alright, at the very least, Kabuto's jutsu should be at around the same level of proficiency as Orochimaru's
Meaning, very close to the power of alive versions

That's acceptable to me.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Well, since we've all come to an agreement, and there's technically no changes to be made, I guess I'll close this then.