Gun Devil K.E revision

[GunshyFever]

Introduction
A while back, I created this thread to bump all high-god tiers of the Chainsaw Man verse to City level+ to Mountain level. However, it was rejected based on two main points:

1. The destruction displayed by the Gun Devil indicates that KE-based calculations are not reliable.
2. This feat is considered an outlier.

Arguments
1. The first argument doesn't appear to be logical at all. Makima spots the Gun Devil at a distance of 500 km after it has been moving towards her for 1 second. The Gun Devil continues moving towards Makima for an additional 2 seconds before it stops and begins firing. The distance from the Gun Devil to Makima when it stops is 1.5 km (his maximum known range), which in turn is Massively Hypersonic. Considering his mass, this gives you his K.E. The problem raised by multiple CGM's is that the sequence of destruction does not align with 7-B K.E, which would vaporize everything without leaving anything behind. This is disingenuous because the author doesn't write his manga to validate calcs. Moreover, the scene was meant to portray the destruction and death of many innocent lives rather than the absolute destruction a being with 7-B K.E would cause.

2. This argument doesn't hold either. The Gun Devil is shown to be the strongest non-primal devil in the series, having feats that no low to mid-tier would scale to at all apart from Angel, which Makima needed to utilize 1000 years of lifespan to reach this level of AP using his weapons. His current highest feat was done when he was at full power, moving at mach 300+ and flattening multiple skyscrapers with his K.E. We were only shown a cropped portion of this damage, so the potential damage could extend for kilometers.

Mainly, this thread was created for other CGM's to lay their opinion on the matter.

Scaling
Scaling remains the same as the previous thread, which I will re-list here.

Note:
Fear Scaling: As Devils embodying the fear of a concept, the more feared they are, the more powerful they become even a relatively minor boost in fear can immensely boost a devil's overall strength and effects of their abilities, Due to this once a Devil is more feared than another Devil, their AP and Speed surpasses that said devil.

Characters who Upscale from the Gun Devil 100%'s AP to 100 Megatons (Mountain level)
Primordial Devils; These devils have been described as "transcendent" compared normal devils and have never experienced death before due to their immerse power, as they possess names that are feared by nearly every human on the Planet, eg; Falling and Darkness. They have been stated to be far stronger than the likes of "some Gun Devil", a weakened Falling Devil with just her appearance on earth caused gravity fluctuations all around the globe causing nations to suffer from damage and become immensely poorer

The Chainsaw Devil; Is known as the devil that devils fears the most which puts him at a comparable level to the Primordial Devils and far above the Gun Devil, Makima considered a proper fight with Pochita "unwinnable" and needed to resort to heavily depowering him, simultaneously fought both 4 Horsemen & the Weapon Devils while in Hell one of the four horsemen being the Death Devil whom is the strongest Devil with the name most feared of all, Makima planned to use the Chainsaw Devil's power to erase her from existence. Defeated devils that embodied concepts such as nuclear weapons, an in-universe volcano eruption and starlight that would break children's minds showing his extreme superiority to the Gun Devil

Characters who scale to the Gun Devil 100%'s AP
Makima: Makima is the Control Devil; (The devil that embodies the fear of loosing free will) her fear reaches a greater extent due to countries all around the world having fear for Makima and refused to stand in her way of bringing peace, due to this her AP would scale to 85.98 Megatons due to being able to draw blood from the Chainsaw Devil.

That's all.

Agree: (1:3) @FuriousFieryFist, @TheRustyOne, @That_moron2, @IDK3465

Disagree: (2:2) @Chariot190, @Raiden38, @AnAverageUsername, @SunDaGamer

Neutral: (0:0)

 

[AnimesFreak2]

I agree with all of these

Though might I also add that you should include Angel with his weapons as we do scale him to Pochita with them



Attack Potency: Unknown physically, up to Town level with weapons (Cut off Reze's arm and killed her[8]. Makima, using his powers, managed to blow a hole into the Chainsaw Devil[9])

 

[GunshyFever]

Added it

 

[ElJoaki5]

Edit: Nvm

 

[GunshyFever]

The speed feat is done by the 20% gun devil so the low end should be the one used, I think the other may fall under calc stacking.

It would actually fall under being a multiplier, rather than calc stacking.

 

[ElJoaki5]

It would actually fall under being a multiplier, rather than calc stacking.

Actually nvm my comment I got confused

 

[Zabazab]

Actually nvm my comment I got confused

That's ok, I'm always confused

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Ah shit here we go again

 

[GunshyFever]

This thread shouldn't be as bad as the original, since nobody really understood what was being argued against regarding the calc, which just caused confusion.

 

[GunshyFever]

Can someone please notify staff?

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

I will do my best same as last time but I'm not gonna keep replying if it seems to be pointless. I agree btw.

 

[GunshyFever]

Bump

 

[Chariot190]

This is disingenuous because the author doesn't write his manga to validate calcs. Moreover, the scene was meant to portray the destruction and death of many innocent lives rather than the absolute destruction a being with 7-B K.E would cause.

You LITERALLY just proved why the feat is bunk.

You're getting an overinflated KE the author had zero intent on portraying and thus, didn't portray.

Classic example of when not to calc something. The feat ain't real.
And that doesn't get rid of the problem, the KE doesn't align with the calc, not even 1/1000th, thus it breaks the rules and can't be used.

2. This argument doesn't hold either. The Gun Devil is shown to be the strongest non-primal devil in the series, having feats that no low to mid-tier would scale to at all apart from Angel, which Makima needed to utilize 1000 years of lifespan to reach this level of AP using his weapons.

This doesn't matter? Whether or not the feat is high, low, or whatever, doesn't change the fact it's wrong and breaks the rules.

His current highest feat was done when he was at full power, moving at mach 300+ and flattening multiple skyscrapers with his K.E.

Flattening skyscrapers being all he did, and sometimes, not even that, is over 1000x off the calc my dude

We were only shown a cropped portion of this damage, so the potential damage could extend for kilometers.

This is a very, very, bad example.
Yeah, the damage does extend kilometers, because he's constantly moving, leaving behind a trail.
No shit the destruction is gonna extend the whole length of where he moved

The problem, is that he needs to display that type of destruction every moment. His ass flying a few hundred km and ripping up a trail of devastation doesn't support the calc, for example, say you have a jack hammer, and ya drag it across some road, damn that's a big trail right? Must be 9-A or even 8-C? No. Because that wasn't done in a instant, some shit here.
That very scan shows the width mind you, and it's like, maybe a city block wide? When it should the entire panel, and beyond, for a few km.

PLUS, this, isn't even true, we see multiple skyscrapers he made direct contact with, and weren't obliterated. We even see a skyscraper caved in on the side that he bumped into in the sequence of panels, and basic angsizing the distance from a few of his zoom in panels gets what, a few hundred meters at best?

id post scans again, but we did that last thread, nothing new was brought up, and you excluded the sus panels too like the caved in building, do we need some sort of discussion rule for this as nothing new was brought forth or said.

 

[GunshyFever]

You LITERALLY just proved why the feat is bunk.

You're getting an overinflated KE the author had zero intent on portraying and thus, didn't portray.

Classic example of when not to calc something. The feat ain't real.
And that doesn't get rid of the problem, the KE doesn't align with the calc, not even 1/1000th, thus it breaks the rules and can't be used.

This doesn't matter? Whether or not the feat is high, low, or whatever, doesn't change the fact it's wrong and breaks the rules.

I'm pretty sure the destruction was counterintuitive because the GD was flying right over these buildings. In a sense that he was hovering over them to such an extent that the main thing producing the said K.E is his mass, which is not even shown in the panels as it is far above them. This would affect the K.E. no matter how weaker it would be, even if it is 1/1000th weaker and even far below that. The K.E is not being used effectively since he is hovering over the said buildings to fly towards his destination. My claim that the author is not showing the said destruction effectively is exactly what the OP says, to display the destruction and death of many innocent lives.

Flattening skyscrapers being all he did, and sometimes, not even that, is over 1000x off the calc my dude

Considering that his initial speed is far slower than his speed during his journey past Japan, it is obvious that his K.E. would be weaker. How can you maintain the K.E. produced when you were moving at Mach 700+ if you are instead moving at a far lower speed, such as Mach 300+, which by right, would generate far less damage? That's how K.E. is determined in the first place, by speed and mass. How are you supposed to keep the same 7-B K.E. if you are not moving at the correct speeds to maintain it?

This is a very, very, bad example.
Yeah, the damage does extend kilometers, because he's constantly moving, leaving behind a trail.
No shit the destruction is gonna extend the whole length of where he moved

The problem, is that he needs to display that type of destruction every moment. His ass flying a few hundred km and ripping up a trail of devastation doesn't support the calc, for example, say you have a jack hammer, and ya drag it across some road, damn that's a big trail right? Must be 9-A or even 8-C? No. Because that wasn't done in a instant, some shit here.
That very scan shows the width mind you, and it's like, maybe a city block wide? When it should the entire panel, and beyond, for a few km.

PLUS, this, isn't even true, we see multiple skyscrapers he made direct contact with, and weren't obliterated. We even see a skyscraper caved in on the side that he bumped into in the sequence of panels, and basic angsizing the distance from a few of his zoom in panels gets what, a few hundred meters at best?

id post scans again, but we did that last thread, nothing new was brought up, and you excluded the sus panels too like the caved in building, do we need some sort of discussion rule for this as nothing new was brought forth or said.

Same goes for this as well. I understand that using the fact that his damage extended for kilometers was a bad example. However, I believe the argument that it is an outlier just isn't applicable. It's better to argue that the calc is wrong rather than argue that it's an outlier because by all means if it were just up to this, he would scale.

 

[GunshyFever]

Please don't write a Bible sized text as a response bro , I'm really not tryna read allat

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Please don't write a Bible sized text as a response bro , I'm really not tryna read allat

 

[Chariot190]

I'm pretty sure the destruction was counterintuitive because the GD was flying right over these buildings.

We literally went through this last time, GD's central mass is low enough to where any 6 story building, he'd make direct contact with. And that's ignoring his ammo that'd literally hit everything. AND that's ignoring how we see him hit stuff, like dog, we do see a few buildings, such as a 10+ story building, caved in, the fact it was caved in and not vaporized, is a huge flag.

In a sense that he was hovering over them to such an extent that the main thing producing the said K.E is his mass, which is not even shown in the panels as it is far above them.

Again, wrong, even pixel scaled this and circled panels last thread.

This would affect the K.E. no matter how weaker it would be, even if it is 1/1000th weaker and even far below that. The K.E is not being used effectively since he is hovering over the said buildings to fly towards his destination.

Again, wrong, we see buildings he DIRECTLY rammed into, the argument here is just factually incorrect, he DID make direct contact with buildings.

My claim that the author is not showing the said destruction effectively is exactly what the OP says, to display the destruction and death of many innocent lives.

Doesn't matter, you literally just pointed out how the author had no intention of conveying a beyond nuke lv KE feat. All while actively drawing effects thousands of times below what he's actually doing.

Calcing the KE as such, not only breaks the rules of KE =/= Visuals, but it's essentially admitting the calc is inflated.

Considering that his initial speed is far slower than his speed during his journey past Japan, it is obvious that his K.E. would be weaker. How can you maintain the K.E. produced when you were moving at Mach 700+ if you are instead moving at a far lower speed, such as Mach 300+, which by right, would generate far less damage? That's how K.E. is determined in the first place, by speed and mass. How are you supposed to keep the same 7-B K.E. if you are not moving at the correct speeds to maintain it?

He literally was? What are you talking about? He stands there, immediately hits dumb as shit speeds, then stops 1.5km away from Makima. And, again, don't matter, we see the destruction, that isn't tsar bomba lv of damage every instant. Hell it isn't even 7-C.

Same goes for this as well. I understand that using the fact that his damage extended for kilometers was a bad example.

Then what's the argument? At NO point does any movement of his even come within a magnitude of the calc, the damage we actually see him do, is magnitudes less. Ergo, his movement is what we see, as per KE rules.

Of course he has wacky pressure, but he was smashing buildings as well, and just stuff a few hundreds meters away at best was getting blown away, of course, but, what do you think the overpressure for a 7-B bomb would be? Shit would be blown away, kilometers from impact, yet GD ain't doing that either.

However, I believe the argument that it is an outlier just isn't applicable. It's better to argue that the calc is wrong rather than argue that it's an outlier because by all means if it were just up to this, he would scale.

Nobody said it was an outlier? The feat is just wrong because we see the actual energy his KE has, and it's 1000s below the calc.

 

[Chariot190]

Please don't write a Bible sized text as a response bro , I'm really not tryna read allat

Im busy calcing stuff so

Just put me disagree, breaks KE rules, for more info check last thread

 

[GunshyFever]

He literally was? What are you talking about? He stands there, immediately hits dumb as shit speeds, then stops 1.5km away from Makima. And, again, don't matter, we see the destruction, that isn't tsar bomba lv of damage every instant. Hell it isn't even 7-C.

I was talking about when he was at full power, the 7-C feat. As for everything else, I can't necessarily argue against pixel scaling or things of that nature.

Im busy calcing stuff so

Just put me disagree, breaks KE rules, for more info check last thread

Counted.

 

[Raiden38]

Introduction
A while back, I created this thread to bump all high-god tiers of the Chainsaw Man verse to City level+ to Mountain level. However, it was rejected based on two main points:

1. The destruction displayed by the Gun Devil indicates that KE-based calculations are not reliable.
2. This feat is considered an outlier.

Arguments
1. The first argument doesn't appear to be logical at all. Makima spots the Gun Devil at a distance of 500 km after it has been moving towards her for 1 second. The Gun Devil continues moving towards Makima for an additional 2 seconds before it stops and begins firing. The distance from the Gun Devil to Makima when it stops is 1.5 km (his maximum known range), which in turn is Massively Hypersonic. Considering his mass, this gives you his K.E. The problem raised by multiple CGM's is that the sequence of destruction does not align with 7-B K.E, which would vaporize everything without leaving anything behind. This is disingenuous because the author doesn't write his manga to validate calcs. Moreover, the scene was meant to portray the destruction and death of many innocent lives rather than the absolute destruction a being with 7-B K.E would cause.

2. This argument doesn't hold either. The Gun Devil is shown to be the strongest non-primal devil in the series, having feats that no low to mid-tier would scale to at all apart from Angel, which Makima needed to utilize 1000 years of lifespan to reach this level of AP using his weapons. His current highest feat was done when he was at full power, moving at mach 300+ and flattening multiple skyscrapers with his K.E. We were only shown a cropped portion of this damage, so the potential damage could extend for kilometers.

Mainly, this thread was created for other CGM's to lay their opinion on the matter.

Scaling
Scaling remains the same as the previous thread, which I will re-list here.

Note:
Fear Scaling: As Devils embodying the fear of a concept, the more feared they are, the more powerful they become even a relatively minor boost in fear can immensely boost a devil's overall strength and effects of their abilities, Due to this once a Devil is more feared than another Devil, their AP and Speed surpasses that said devil.

Characters who Upscale from the Gun Devil 100%'s AP to 100 Megatons (Mountain level)
Primordial Devils; These devils have been described as "transcendent" compared normal devils and have never experienced death before due to their immerse power, as they possess names that are feared by nearly every human on the Planet, eg; Falling and Darkness. They have been stated to be far stronger than the likes of "some Gun Devil", a weakened Falling Devil with just her appearance on earth caused gravity fluctuations all around the globe causing nations to suffer from damage and become immensely poorer

The Chainsaw Devil; Is known as the devil that devils fears the most which puts him at a comparable level to the Primordial Devils and far above the Gun Devil, Makima considered a proper fight with Pochita "unwinnable" and needed to resort to heavily depowering him, simultaneously fought both 4 Horsemen & the Weapon Devils while in Hell one of the four horsemen being the Death Devil whom is the strongest Devil with the name most feared of all, Makima planned to use the Chainsaw Devil's power to erase her from existence. Defeated devils that embodied concepts such as nuclear weapons, an in-universe volcano eruption and starlight that would break children's minds showing his extreme superiority to the Gun Devil

Characters who scale to the Gun Devil 100%'s AP
Makima: Makima is the Control Devil; (The devil that embodies the fear of loosing free will) her fear reaches a greater extent due to countries all around the world having fear for Makima and refused to stand in her way of bringing peace, due to this her AP would scale to 85.98 Megatons due to being able to draw blood from the Chainsaw Devil.

That's all.

Agree: (0:1) @FuriousFieryFist

Disagree: (0:0) @Chariot190

Neutral: (0:0)

Disagree FRA

 

[That_moron2]

Disagree FRA

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Yeah, count me for disagreeing for Chariot's reasonings.

 

[SunDaGamer]

Chariot's points from the previous thread are still valid, the KE of the Gun Devil would be like a 1.6 Tsar Bombas going off everytime he collided with anything but all we're shown are collapsed buildings in the aftermath, this page implies that the Gun Devil is flying pretty low and not hundreds of meters in the sky too.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I mean hey maybe the 2nd season in 2028 will make it consistent

 

[That_moron2]

I mean hey maybe the 2nd season in 2028 will make it consistent

*2030

 

[GunshyFever]

(nvm)

 

[TheRustyOne]

I'm still alright with using the calculation as it doesn't break our KE rules at all.

Kinetic Energy Feats: Dos

• A certain character moves at a certain speed while carrying an object, that would require superhuman strength to be carried.
• The kinetic energy displayed is directly shown to be as a result of speed, or at least heavily implied to be so. Examples would be: A meteor crashing into the ground, as well as a Kaiju moving at full speed.
• A verse consistently treats speed, and its relation to attack potency, in a realistic manner. Calculating kinetic energy from a character's speed isn't problematic, if it's clear that the story they're from doesn't separate speed from one's general capacity for destruction.
• A projectile has been calculated to move at a certain speed, such as a cannonball or a spear.
• An object moves at said speed due to the secondary effects of an attack. For example when an explosion tosses large rocks around, their KE can be used to measure the power of the explosion.
• A feat happens in the Real World, since physics work normally in real life.
• A giant character, one weighing 200kg or more, is moving themselves. For launching feats such a minimum mass isn't necessary.

The Gun Devil is approved by both of the highlighted rules.

Don'ts

• The calculated kinetic energy value is heavily inconsistent with the rest of the cast in the series. EX: Quicksilver's calculated speed cannot be used to derive kinetic energy as it heavily contradicts his established power levels.
• There is a destruction/AP calculation contradicting a kinetic energy calculation. The destruction/AP calculation would take priority over the kinetic energy calculation in this case as the AP calculation would be a better proof in regards to how much damage he/she is capable of in an attack.
• For example, if a character launches a 200kg metal ball against a common wall at Mach 300, but the wall remains largely undamaged, the energy required to cause the minor damage on the wall would take priority over the kinetic energy derived from speed in this case.

I cannot speak for this being an outlier or whatever, so I'll ignore that. But the feat here does not fall into any of the highlighted Don'ts.

Note that nowhere is it stated that destruction needs to match KE. Just that the actual destruction calculated is more accurate than KE, which is stated in our rules. However, we have no destruction calculation here. The Gun Devil left a 400+ Kilometer path of destruction across Japan, that is what we know.

The 7-C calculation, is a tiny portion of a different offscreen feat. Distance is only 1.45 km, which isn't even 0.5% of the path of destruction the Gun Devil took in the KE feat. And we know it doesn't compare to the real distance the 100% Gun Devil made as it's path went around the entire planet.

The example in our rules are for blatant feats that aren't taking Kinetic Energy into account. Such as a metal ball hitting a wall at Mach 300 and not even breaking it. However, the Gun Devil's feat is clearly showing the destruction is caused by its kinetic energy. Meaning using Kinetic Energy here is indeed accurate.

That is it, our rules do not say anything more than the above. There is no destruction calculation of this feat as it's impossible to calculate accurately.

Nowhere in our rules do we need the visual destruction size and KE to match. Which is impossible to guess via eyeballing a feat, for obvious reason.

Destruction is better than KE in most cases, this is correct. If someone can make a destruction calculation that is more acceptable than the KE, yes it would take priority. However, no such thing exist and I refuse to reject this calculation based on rules that do not exist.

This does not break our KE rules, anyone who says as such is incorrect. There is no need for an atomic fire ball, there is no need for the size of destruction to be bigger.

Nowhere on any of our pages is this stated as a rule. If someone disagrees, you'll need to make a thread to change our Kinetic Energy page and add new rules.

The majority of KE feats accepted on this wiki, which fit the value, do not produce atomic fire balls. Meaning all of them would be invalid, which is frankly absurd. This wiki does not care for the effects being accurate, or else we wouldn't accept characters being Tier 6 and not having their fist produce over one million degrees of heat.

KE is not special here. The Gun Devil did not hit a wall and not break it, it destroyed everything that came into contact with it and more. So the calculation is fine.

Note: I do not have the energy to debate beyond this, so I'll likely not respond to a lot of things. Not saying you cannot give your opinion, I personally just can't handle it.

 

[ElJoaki5]

The high result of the calc uses 100% mass with 20% speed but the 100% gun devil is from a different scene and has a different speed feat. So I believe that may be Calc Stacking and it should be 20% mass with 20% speed or 100% mass with 100% speed.

 

[GunshyFever]

The 100% Gun Devil was traveling at Mach 300. Knowing this, the K.E would be lower during that scene. However, we also know that a multiplier can be applied, and that the 100% Gun Devil is greater than its Mach 700 feat performed at 20%. Therefore, it should be applicable, aside from the fact that if the 100% Gun Devil was going at full speed, it would generate more kinetic energy because its mass is far greater, since it actually has a body, arms, and legs, instead of bullets hanging from its body, which represent its "organs" in its 20% form.

 

[That_moron2]

Switching to agree for Rusty’s reasons

 

[ElJoaki5]

The 100% Gun Devil was traveling at Mach 300. Knowing this, the K.E would be lower during that scene. However, we also know that a multiplier can be applied, and that the 100% Gun Devil is greater than its Mach 700 feat performed at 20%. Therefore, it should be applicable, aside from the fact that if the 100% Gun Devil was going at full speed, it would generate more kinetic energy because its mass is far greater, since it actually has a body, arms, and legs, instead of bullets hanging from its body, which represent its "organs" in its 20% form.

"Calc stacking refers to the practice of using results from one calculation in order to calculate other feats."
The 20% GD running around Japan (And its KE) and the 100% GD running around the world (And its KE) are two different feats and a result from one shouldn’t be used to calculate the other

 

[GunshyFever]

We aren't using the feat of the 100% Gun Devil though. In fact the destruction doesn't have anything to do with the K.E here or the feat of full power Gun Devil traveling around the world. The multiplier is its hypothetical power at 100%. It has nothing to with his feat when he was at 100%.

 

[Nierre]

hopium

 

[IDK3465]

I agree with Rusty actually, the calc itself doesn’t seem to break any of the KE rules. And, adding on to his points: A character doesn’t need to constantly show their maximum strength to be a certain tier.

If Goku breaks a building and he doesn’t fully obliterate it, that doesn’t mean he’s disqualified for being in tier 5-4, because we have no reason to assume that he can’t do anything stronger than that. If he struggled to break it down, then it’d be an at least somewhat acceptable anti-feat, but even then, that’d be way too inconsistent with what he’s actually capable of to change anything.

Just because the buildings the Gun Devil destroyed weren’t atomized, doesn’t mean they can’t do that. Especially considering how many factors Chariot is ignoring that would make the 8.4 kiloton feat make sense.

We don’t know the total destruction Gun Devil caused, we aren’t fully sure if they even hit any buildings rather than just residual air damage, if they just shot the buildings, and, from what I can tell, if they were actually going at max speed.
Considering how casual the feat seems, why would we assume that this is the Gun Devil’s peak?

In my opinion, Chariot is cherry picking certain details while ignoring any way the feat could still make sense with the KE. We don’t see the Gun Devil cause nuclear level destruction, because it doesn’t NEED to cause nuclear level destruction.

 

[GunshyFever]

Counted. If anyone would like to place or change their vote just let me know. Even non-staff votes matter.

 

[Chariot190]

I'm still alright with using the calculation as it doesn't break our KE rules at all.

Kinetic Energy Feats: Dos

• A certain character moves at a certain speed while carrying an object, that would require superhuman strength to be carried.
• The kinetic energy displayed is directly shown to be as a result of speed, or at least heavily implied to be so. Examples would be: A meteor crashing into the ground, as well as a Kaiju moving at full speed.
• A verse consistently treats speed, and its relation to attack potency, in a realistic manner. Calculating kinetic energy from a character's speed isn't problematic, if it's clear that the story they're from doesn't separate speed from one's general capacity for destruction.
• A projectile has been calculated to move at a certain speed, such as a cannonball or a spear.
• An object moves at said speed due to the secondary effects of an attack. For example when an explosion tosses large rocks around, their KE can be used to measure the power of the explosion.
• A feat happens in the Real World, since physics work normally in real life.
• A giant character, one weighing 200kg or more, is moving themselves. For launching feats such a minimum mass isn't necessary.

The Gun Devil is approved by both of the highlighted rules.

So the absolute bare minimum JUST to even begin calcing it? Not the best sign.

Don'ts

• The calculated kinetic energy value is heavily inconsistent with the rest of the cast in the series. EX: Quicksilver's calculated speed cannot be used to derive kinetic energy as it heavily contradicts his established power levels.

I dont wanna be that dude, but it is only 16000x over the next best feat and like 100000x that of the next best feat from a different character

• There is a destruction/AP calculation contradicting a kinetic energy calculation. The destruction/AP calculation would take priority over the kinetic energy calculation in this case as the AP calculation would be a better proof in regards to how much damage he/she is capable of in an attack.
• For example, if a character launches a 200kg metal ball against a common wall at Mach 300, but the wall remains largely undamaged, the energy required to cause the minor damage on the wall would take priority over the kinetic energy derived from speed in this case.

I cannot speak for this being an outlier or whatever, so I'll ignore that. But the feat here does not fall into any of the highlighted Don'ts.

Note that nowhere is it stated that destruction needs to match KE. Just that the actual destruction calculated is more accurate than KE, which is stated in our rules. However, we have no destruction calculation here. The Gun Devil left a 400+ Kilometer path of destruction across Japan, that is what we know.

The 7-C calculation, is a tiny portion of a different offscreen feat.

In a vastly stronger form, and also wrong, as below.
(Hell we don't even know if that feat was done with KE either btw).

Distance is only 1.45 km, which isn't even 0.5% of the path of destruction the Gun Devil took in the KE feat.

The DISTANCE, doesnt matter, the distance is gonna be however far he moved, duh, that isn't what you calculate.

And we know it doesn't compare to the real distance the 100% Gun Devil made as it's path went around the entire planet.

Dude, you realize that isn't how it works right?
The Gun Devil's KE is continuous, he isn't jumping and all that force is the byproduct of one kinetic, action.

You are, quite literally, doing that jackhammer example.

If you take a jackhammer, and drag it along a path, do you calculate the entire length of the trail, or just what it did moment by moment? That was rhetorical, of course you don't. You don't calculate the entire path, especially when it comes to sustained magic demon flight.

See that green line? That's the destruction AOE, not the 500km trail, the trail, is because he keeps on moving. But that green line? That is the moment-to-moment destruction range (At best).

Actually, why is the blue line even included? The very fact it isn't uniform should be a red flag.

For a different example, Superman flies across the universe, and plows through 10000000 planets. Do we calculate the destruction of each individual planet which is only like idk 5-A hypothetically, or do we wank and combine every planet bust together because it isn't like his flight is being supplied constant momentum am I right? That's rhetorical, both Supes and the Gun Devil are being given a constant supply of momentum, you don't calc that as all one action, ie, you don't calc the whole path of destruction as one action, ya could if it WAS one action, (like Pochita's kick through buildings as all that energy came from one initial leap) especially as the momentum and KE would be expanded as he goes, but that aint how he works.

The example in our rules are for blatant feats that aren't taking Kinetic Energy into account. Such as a metal ball hitting a wall at Mach 300 and not even breaking it. However, the Gun Devil's feat is clearly showing the destruction is caused by its kinetic energy. Meaning using Kinetic Energy here is indeed accurate.

It's also for blatant discrepancies as to avoid hyperinflation.
"The destruction/AP calculation would take priority over the kinetic energy calculation"
What do you think that line is for? It's saying "yeah if the actual damage is completely off the alleged KE, toss it".

The steel ball, is an EXAMPLE, of a dumb-as-shit KE calc, hence why it's noted to be an example, that isn't the only case ever when that comes into play because that's literally not how it's worded, and it isn't even worded the way you're interpreting it.

The feat also isn't taking KE into account, the KE is magnitudes apart. That steel ball had KE too, of course it did, it was moving was it not? But the destruction didn't corroborate the calculated energy of that steel ball, so oops sucks to suck.

Do I really need to calc some random GD panels for this to magically qualify under the semantics? Because I will if need be, shit aint even gonna be 7-C mind you.

Gun Devil is no different.

That is it, our rules do not say anything more than the above. There is no destruction calculation of this feat as it's impossible to calculate accurately.

Then don't calculate it. Except that's wrong anyhow, just angsize an AOE, or just look at the actual panels. You could easily work something out. Looking it over, it'd be easy bar some annoying pixel scaling which i dont wanna do plz dont make :SadFrug:. Most of the panels look 8-B.

Nowhere in our rules do we need the visual destruction size and KE to match. Which is impossible to guess via eyeballing a feat, for obvious reason.

Not really, at all? It doesnt take a genius to eyeball basic KE, or at least, a genius to pick up on over tens of thousands of gap on KE.

And not good enough, remember you're on a forum for fancalcs, whatever crack-ass math we push out isn't the same as "hey the material shows this instead".

Destruction is better than KE in most cases, this is correct. If someone can make a destruction calculation that is more acceptable than the KE, yes it would take priority. However, no such thing exist and I refuse to reject this calculation based on rules that do not exist.

This likes just inflation on past bad standards.
And dude, we don't need a calc, it's obvious, hell, we HAVE a calc, for a STRONGER FORM, that's not only a tad inflated, yet still over 16000x less than the alleged KE. Which, kinda just makes you in the wrong here, we have a destruction calc, so even if you wanna play semantics, it breaks the KE rules as it is worded.

• There is a destruction/AP calculation contradicting a kinetic energy calculation. The destruction/AP calculation would take priority over the kinetic energy calculation in this case as the AP calculation would be a better proof in regards to how much damage he/she is capable of in an attack.

Funny part too, that destruction calc is the best feat they have beyond this KE, ain't that a lil ****** up?

This does not break our KE rules, anyone who says as such is incorrect.

Not only does it break the KE rules, explicitly, it breaks it on two accounts, you are quite literally just wrong here idk what to tell ya.

There is no need for an atomic fire ball, there is no need for the size of destruction to be bigger.

Hold up, why the strawman? Who said anything about a fireball?

And secondly, no, there is. If you calc a 6-C rock KE, and it only does 8-C destruction. Well then you're just being obtuse and wanking, not much more to say besides don't use the 6-C KE.

Nowhere on any of our pages is this stated as a rule.

Except in the very rule you quoted, you're just kinda being semantic and taking the example as the rule (which this STILL falls under no less!) and misinterpreting to be "well it just means if the feat has absolutely zero KE at all lmao", which not only isn't what the rule says, but nothing in that sentence can even be misconstrued to mean that, hell the rule just yaps about destruction KE and use the actual damage over the KE if they can't be aligned. Now I doubt you're doing it on purpose so no hard feelings, but still.

If someone disagrees, you'll need to make a thread to change our Kinetic Energy page and add new rules.

Ooor, we could not pretend that the rule doesn't apply when it very clearly does, just to inflate a feat.

The majority of KE feats accepted on this wiki, which fit the value, do not produce atomic fire balls.

Yeah, because 99% aren't in that range.
Yeah no shit a 9-A KE feat won't result in 7-B destruction, or a 6-B KE feat doing far, far worse.

If we do a 7-B KE calc, and it gets accepted, usually because no destruction exists at all to undermine it (say a spaceship collides in the sky or something) or the destruction is close enough to not split hairs. That or it shouldn't have been accepted.

Again, say we have, idk, a KE calc for a spaceship, it gets 7-A, it hits a building, does 8-B damage. Gee wonder what value we're gonna run with? Rhetorical, the 8-B, the KE is inflated and does not corroborate the material and energy displayed.

Also, also, your fireball strawman doesn't work because GD actually emits overpressure as he goes, aka, the manga literally establishes his movement generates a fuckass shockwave, and yet, it's like like an actual million times below the overpressure you'd expect from that KE, despite literally being a thing.

Meaning all of them would be invalid, which is frankly absurd.

Not an argument. Both because it isn't right, but also because two wrongs don't make a right.

This wiki does not care for the effects being accurate,

Yes we do? This line of thought is actively detrimental to the wiki as whole dude.
The whole purpose is to index shit properly, not index made-up conjecture, like obviously we gotta be a lil lenient, but the whole point is to be accurate to the material using irl math and what not to index statistics and stuff.

or else we wouldn't accept characters being Tier 6 and not having their fist produce over one million degrees of heat.

Who said anything about heat? We're talking about destruction, joules, the premise upon which our tiering and AP is based upon, the energy brought forth from the destruction does not corroborate the VERY alleged KE that supposedly caused it.

It's like calcing a 7-B punch, and then that same punch, in that same SCENE, literally the same, breaks like, idk, a floorboard. We wouldn't accept that.

KE is not special here. The Gun Devil did not hit a wall and not break it,

He hit a building tho and it wasn't dusted.
We literally see a 10-story building (aka, way above what's needed for him to hit it, anything above 4 story, would hit his central mass), only caved in.

To give you an accurate comparison, that's like uh, a mach 300 steel ball hitting a wall and not blowing it up, except worse. The gap here, is larger than the gap between 8-B and 9-B.

it destroyed everything that came into contact with it and more. So the calculation is fine.

Dude, we see at least 2 buildings he makes contact on two diff occasions with that are cratered and not annihilated, nuh uh. Argument is objectively wrong.

And ya wanna know the worst part? Calc wrong because the speed is wrong.

Ya know, they never actually say how far away the Gun Devil stopped, it's just being assumed to be 1.5km, because he attacked everyone in a 1.5km distance at another point.
Which, cool, except,

Literally the next ******' page bro's gunfire is shown clearing mountains and a city on its way to Makima, and that's just some of what was between him and Makima.
Dude was not just 1.5km away when he stopped in the middle of a forest, and there's at least a mountain range between him and Makima, who is at the coast on a beach, but if 1.5km is wrong, then any value is wrong because they don't say.

So double disagree, not only does it break KE rules, but the speed the KE is based on isn't even right because the distance isn't even right.

 

[Chariot190]

A character doesn’t need to constantly show their maximum strength to be a certain tier.

Dude, the KE CALC is the SCENE WITH THE DESTRUCTION, it's the same scene.
That only works for, as ya said, Goku, but that doesn't apply to the SAME EXACT feat/calc .

So yeah nah, the calc has to show the calced value or at least close to it because no shit

 

[Zabazab]

Ya know, they never actually say how far away the Gun Devil stopped, it's just being assumed to be 1.5km, because he attacked everyone in a 1.5km distance at another point.
Which, cool, except,

Literally the next ******' page bro's gunfire is shown clearing mountains and a city on its way to Makima, and that's just some of what was between him and Makima.
Dude was not just 1.5km away when he stopped in the middle of a forest, and there's at least a mountain range between him and Makima, who is at the coast on a beach, but if 1.5km is wrong, then any value is wrong because they don't say.

This entire panel looks like roughly half a kilometre wide, it's not like it's firing over the mountains, they're just in the background, to the Gun's right.

 

[IDK3465]

Dude, the KE CALC is the SCENE WITH THE DESTRUCTION, it's the same scene.
That only works for, as ya said, Goku, but that doesn't apply to the SAME EXACT feat/calc .

So yeah nah, the calc has to show the calced value or at least close to it because no shit

I looked at Gun Devil’s profile, the reference for the 7-C feat is chapter 13 and for the speed feat, it’s chapter 76.
Unless a Chainsaw Man expert corrects me, I don’t think it’s the same scene.

 

[Zabazab]

I looked at Gun Devil’s profile, the reference for the 7-C feat is chapter 13 and for the speed feat, it’s chapter 76.
Unless a Chainsaw Man expert corrects me, I don’t think it’s the same scene.

There are basically two ways to look at it since the Gun Devil only Does Something in two scenes, and one of those is only a shot of the aftermath.

The first scene is a snapshot of the aftermath of the 100% Mass Gun Devil's attack. The speed calc for this scene is based on the shortest flight path between the countries it's said to have attacked divided by 5 minutes, around Mach 300.

The second scene is the 20% Mass Gun Devil flying across Japan before stopping to shoot at Makima. The speed calc for this scene is around Mach 700.

The argument is essentially that the result of the 20% Gun Devil can simply be multiplied by the mass since that's the difference, resulting in 100% mass with the velocity of the 20% mass.

Personally I'm indifferent to whether it'd be a multiplier, I see the reasoning for and against it.