Chainsaw Man Massive Upgrades and Profile Revisions

[GunshyFever]

The Gun Devil carries the verse once more by just being huge and fast, I will be discussing who scales to this calc

Note:
Fear Scaling: As Devils embodying the fear of a concept, the more feared they are, the more powerful they become even a relatively minor boost in fear can immensely boost a devil's overall strength and effects of their abilities, Due to this once a Devil is more feared than another Devil, their AP and Speed surpasses that said devil.

Characters who Upscale from the Gun Devil 100%'s AP to 100 Megatons (Mountain level)
Primordial Devils; These devils have been described as "transcendent" compared normal devils and have never experienced death before due to their immerse power, as they possess names that are feared by nearly every human on the Planet, eg; Falling and Darkness. They have been stated to be far stronger than the likes of "some Gun Devil", a weakened Falling Devil with just her appearance on earth caused gravity fluctuations all around the globe causing nations to suffer from damage and become immensely poorer

The Chainsaw Devil; Is known as the devil that devils fears the most which puts him at a comparable level to the Primordial Devils and far above the Gun Devil, Makima considered a proper fight with Pochita "unwinnable" and needed to resort to heavily depowering him, simultaneously fought both 4 Horsemen & the Weapon Devils while in Hell one of the four horsemen being the Death Devil whom is the strongest Devil with the name most feared of all, Makima planned to use the Chainsaw Devil's power to erase her from existence. Defeated devils that embodied concepts such as nuclear weapons, an in-universe volcano eruption and starlight that would break children's minds showing his extreme superiority to the Gun Devil

Characters who scale to the Gun Devil 100%'s AP
Makima: Makima is the Control Devil; (The devil that embodies the fear of loosing free will) her fear reaches a greater extent due to countries all around the world having fear for Makima and refused to stand in her way of bringing peace, due to this her AP would scale to 85.98 Megatons due to being able to draw blood from the Chainsaw Devil.

Minor Profile fixes and additions;
The Gun Devil (Minor revision);

GunshyFever/Gun Devil

vsbattles.fandom.com

Quanxi Profile (Complete revision);

GunshyFever/Quanxi

vsbattles.fandom.com

Thats all

Agree: (0:4) @Zabazab, @XxZetsuxX, @FuriousFieryFist, @S0ulaaaa

Disagree: (4:3) @Chariot190, @Dalesean027, @LordGinSama, @Damage3245, @Mr._Bambu (Agrees with At least 7-C, possibly 7-B), @That_moron2 (Agrees with At least 7-C, possibly 7-B), @Fallen_Angelicx (Agrees with At least 7-C, possibly 7-B)

Neutral: (1:0) @Maverick_Zero_X

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

nice

 

[Zabazab]

Scaling looks good.

Extremely petty nitpick; I don't believe the Gun Devil has any confirmed sex, so "It" should be used instead of "He".

 

[GunshyFever]

Extremely petty nitpick; I don't believe the Gun Devil has any confirmed sex, so "It" should be used instead of "He".

All fixed

 

[Chariot190]

What's the next highest feat?

 

[GunshyFever]

What's the next highest feat?

The Falling Devil's presence rotating earths gravity (I think)

 

[Chariot190]

The Falling Devil's presence rotating earths gravity (I think)

That feels like a tier 6 feat going by vibes.
I meant below this.

 

[GunshyFever]

That feels like a tier 6 feat going by vibes.
I meant below this.

The Typhoon Devil creating a Storm (Low 7-B+) though nobody would scale to it since its EV DC

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

The one lads scale to right now is Gun Devil's Low 7-C city wipe

 

[Chariot190]

Checking myself, it looks like the next best feats would be 5kt and Pochita's 8-A kick.

In a vacuum, I'd say it's ok, but we're looking at a gap of like 19,000x between this, and the next highest applicable feat.

That would be ok if there was a good reason, a feat being very high doesn't discredit it automatically, like something to explain the gap jump or it having zero anti-feats or ones that can be handwaved, but it's just a Gun Devil KE feat (with no collateral mind you to implicate KE is even applicable, kinda bad given Gun Devil is a character, it'd be like getting KE off Godzilla dodging a beam at rel speeds or something), now, again I would say sure whatever, but coupled with the characters who scale to this showing absolutely nothing even close to this, and instead showing feats within the 8-A to 7-C range, and the feat itself being a KE feat without much backing.

Asking for them to show this level of power every time is outrageous, that line of thinking would give us shit like High 8-C DBZ, but a few feats within the ballpark, like even marginally close, over the course of the whole manga, or the feat itself actually showing 7-B effects, would justify it, atm I'm not seeing much tho.

I'm not so sure, I don't wanna call it an outlier, but more like, is calcing this and treating it like an actual feat even the right call?
I'm not so sure this is a solid foundation to give everyone like 19,000x boost with next to no corroborating or supporting feats.

I won't disagree with the CRT, but I'll remain neutral for now, I could just be being overly cautious.
Tbh I'd calc the grav stuff for god dudes if that scales to them, would be a better feat, and one we have proof for.

 

[Zabazab]

Asking for them to show this level of power every time is outrageous, that line of thinking would give us shit like High 8-C DBZ, but a few feats within the ballpark, like even marginally close, over the course of the whole manga, or the feat itself actually showing 7-B effects, would justify it, atm I'm not seeing much tho.

What convinced me– aside from the KE Rules regarding Kaiju– was the fact that the Gun Devil just totally blows away the areas it flies over. Not even touching them, just moving close to them. The Near-7-C feat for example is just from a cropped section of Japan that the Gun Devil flew over, that'd have been done in a split-split-second given it's speed and the trail of destruction would stretch for kilometres realistically.

 

[GunshyFever]

Tbh I'd calc the grav stuff for god dudes if that scales to them, would be a better feat, and one we have proof for.

This, some destruction was shown here, although the chapters focused more on the FD's goal and revealed the immense destruction of her presence later on I'm not sure if this is enough to make a calc

 

[Chariot190]

was the fact that the Gun Devil just totally blows away the areas it flies over. Not even touching them, just moving close to them. The Near-7-C feat for example is just from a cropped section of Japan that the Gun Devil flew over,

The near 7-C feat, is over 20,000x less, which is what I mean. It doesn't really corroborate the KE.

This is about the same as arguing city block KE, off a broken wall, and I mean that quite literally, 11 tons, with the support being 0.00055 tons, is the gap we're looking at here.

that'd have been done in a split-split-second given it's speed and the trail of destruction would stretch for kilometres realistically.

The thing is, it shouldn't be a continuous trail, it should be all at once, every instant. It'd be like arguing a jackhammer or something is 9-A because you can drag it and make a huge line of destruction, obviously, there's gonna be some destruction when a kaiju moves, but I need a bit more personally to think that him moving would vaporize a major city when the feat is just him moving with nothing to suggest that.

 

[Chariot190]

This, some destruction was shown here, although the chapters focused more on the FD's goal and revealed the immense destruction of her presence later on I'm not sure if this is enough to make a calc

Bruh wtf, that happened on a planetary scale? I would not be shocked if that was High 6-A or some shit.

 

[GunshyFever]

Bruh wtf, that happened on a planetary scale? I would not be shocked if that was High 6-A or some shit.

High 6-A CSM is crazy but is it calcable tho?

 

[Chariot190]

Reversing the planet's gravity is in theory calculatable I'd think, but damn if it ain't a pain in the ass.

Would basically need to get actual sciency to do it, it's basically C-Moon on a planetary scale, though I suppose methods does change things, is she changing the PLANET'S gravity, or making a gravitational force equal to the planet in reverse (basically overpowering the natural gravity)?
ain't gonna be me tho, I have enough overly obtuse calcs without any precedence of formulas to rip from on the wiki as it is.

This a bit derailing tho, we can discuss this in the CSM thread.

 

[Zabazab]

The thing is, it shouldn't be a continuous trail, it should be all at once, every instant.

I'm not sure what you mean, the Gun Devil is just flying overhead, but everything around it is destroyed anyway. An object with extremely high KE wouldn't cause a level of destruction equal to it's energy from flying overhead, right? Maybe it does and I'm just stupid.

 

[Chariot190]

I'm not sure what you mean, the Gun Devil is just flying overhead, but everything around it is destroyed anyway. An object with extremely high KE wouldn't cause a level of destruction equal to it's energy from flying overhead, right? Maybe it does and I'm just stupid.

Air pressure and stuff, but we kinda have rules against that It's why we don't have 5-B All-Might.
Either way, I'm not here to argue it completely i wanna play chocobo instead but I'm personally not sure that calcing KE without any collateral in that instance, that's 20,000x above the next best feats, including feats from characters above him not showing even 1/1000th the degree of energy as the presumed KE we don't even see, is the best grounds for such an upgrade, seems way to flimsy and presumptuous imo. It'd be one thing if we could confirm he actually moves with that much force, but fiction be wacky, kind of why we have so many KE rules.
The grav thing we actually see and confirm as legit being a thing, would rather we look into that.

I'll just wait to see if other staff are fine with this being applied.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Snip

The 5 Kiloton calculation was just a small part of the entire feat, which is likely thousands of times worse, and is basically the same as the feat being used now. Also, saying this caused no collateral damage is incorrect, it caused massive destruction across multiple cities. We just don't see the full scope of the destruction in one shot.

It moved for hundreds of kilometers and would've caused this level of destruction anywhere it moved. This is the 20% Gun Devil moving in the same chapter being used here.

Your comparison using our rules with the steel ball and the wall is wrong and is not the purpose of the meaning. If that same steel ball pulverized that wall and went past the horizon and the wall destruction was only 9-B, but the KE was Low 7-C, the KE for the ball being Low 7-C would be perfectly fine to use.

Noting contradicts it being Low 7-C since that's what it would do.

Ignoring anything like the verse having feats on that level or whatever, this example is in a complete vacuum.

Now if it pulverized one wall but was stopped by another wall, being Low 7-C would be very iffy.

Just because we don't have a fan calculation of that destruction at 7-B doesn't mean it cannot be rated as such via KE. We don't see the full destruction and KE from a giant character doing what I labeled above across hundreds of kilometers is fine. It being rated as 7-B doesn't break the intention of the story here.

The destruction is not meant to be on par with the KE, or else KE would be a worthless rating. The intention with the steel ball and the wall is meant to show if something is meant to be a feat in the first place. You are misunderstanding what it represents. Obviously there are exceptions to everything and yes it can work how you said.

But I don't see how that is the case here.

Note: I'm not voting or going into the fact if the feat is an outlier for the verse in question. I just have an extremely massive problem with what you said here and I couldn't control my temper. Apologies for any disrespect I've shown you, I find it difficult to control myself at time and I don't mean anything personally.

I likely won't respond after this as I'm not super familiar enough with Chainsaw Man to give an accurate opinion on the scaling. I'd need to read the series over a few more times.

 

[Dalesean027]

The 5 Kiloton calculation was just a small part of the entire feat, which is likely thousands of times worse, and is basically the same as the feat being used now. Also, saying this caused no collateral damage is incorrect, it caused massive destruction across multiple cities. We just don't see the full scope of the destruction in one shot.

It moved for hundreds of kilometers and would've caused this level of destruction anywhere it moved. This is the 20% Gun Devil moving in the same chapter being used here.

Your comparison using our rules with the steel ball and the wall is wrong and is not the purpose of the meaning. If that same steel ball pulverized that wall and went past the horizon and the wall destruction was only 9-B, but the KE was Low 7-C, the KE for the ball being Low 7-C would be perfectly fine to use.

Noting contradicts it being Low 7-C since that's what it would do.

Ignoring anything like the verse having feats on that level or whatever, this example is in a complete vacuum.

Now if it pulverized one wall but was stopped by another wall, being Low 7-C would be very iffy.

Just because we don't have a fan calculation of that destruction at 7-B doesn't mean it cannot be rated as such via KE. We don't see the full destruction and KE from a giant character doing what I labeled above across hundreds of kilometers is fine. It being rated as 7-B doesn't break the intention of the story here.

The destruction is not meant to be on par with the KE, or else KE would be a worthless rating. The intention with the steel ball and the wall is meant to show if something is meant to be a feat in the first place. You are misunderstanding what it represents. Obviously there are exceptions to everything and yes it can work how you said.

But I don't see how that is the case here.

Note: I'm not voting or going into the fact if the feat is an outlier for the verse in question. I just have an extremely massive problem with what you said here and I couldn't control my temper. Apologies for any disrespect I've shown you, I find it difficult to control myself at time and I don't mean anything personally.

I likely won't respond after this as I'm not super familiar enough with Chainsaw Man to give an accurate opinion on the scaling. I'd need to read the series over a few more times.

Uh Rusty I don't think you need to apologize bro it ain't that big a deal and I'm sure he also didn't know it had KE destruction feats like that also so like you provided them I think its good bro.

Neither of you also would've been wrong in what you said too, just kicking up some wind imo wouldn't have been enough either but you showed scans of destruction as well so that makes it better

 

[Chariot190]

The 5 Kiloton calculation was just a small part of the entire feat, which is likely thousands of times worse, and is basically the same as the feat being used now. Also, saying this caused no collateral damage is incorrect, it caused massive destruction across multiple cities. We just don't see the full scope of the destruction in one shot.

Let me reiterate, it did not cause collateral damage corroborative to the calc in question,

• Kinetic Energy based on Movement Speed is case by case: Fiction often treats the speed with which a character can move himself as unrelated to their attack power. As such feats like just running or carrying a small object, like another character, should only be used if the fiction has made clear that the speed of the movement correlates to the character's power or if the character uses the fast moving object to attack. Calculating the energy necessary for moving large structures at great speeds, using the speed things move as a secondary effect of an attack, throwing objects at great speeds etc. are all acceptable methods of quantifying a characters power regardless.
• The calculated kinetic energy value is heavily inconsistent with the rest of the cast in the series. EX: Quicksilver's calculated speed cannot be used to derive kinetic energy as it heavily contradicts his established power levels.
• There is a destruction/AP calculation contradicting a kinetic energy calculation. The destruction/AP calculation would take priority over the kinetic energy calculation in this case as the AP calculation would be a better proof in regards to how much damage he/she is capable of in an attack.

It moved for hundreds of kilometers and would've caused this level of destruction anywhere it moved. This is the 20% Gun Devil moving in the same chapter being used here.

That isn't 7-A, literally tens of thousands of times less. If that's the destruction it's KE causes, then calc that instead.

Your comparison using our rules with the steel ball and the wall is wrong and is not the purpose of the meaning. If that same steel ball pulverized that wall and went past the horizon and the wall destruction was only 9-B, but the KE was Low 7-C, the KE for the ball being Low 7-C would be perfectly fine to use.

I wasn't even using that example, but good call.

Noting contradicts it being Low 7-C since that's what it would do.

Now imagine, if you would, that steel ball only destroyed that wall, and absolutely nothing else comes close.

Ignoring anything like the verse having feats on that level or whatever, this example is in a complete vacuum.

I said it was fine, in a vacuum, first thing I said actually. So no, unfortunately I'm not going to ignore te corroborative feats because that's half the issue.

Now if it pulverized one wall but was stopped by another wall, being Low 7-C would be very iffy.

It would be yes.

Just because we don't have a fan calculation of that destruction at 7-B doesn't mean it cannot be rated as such via KE. We don't see the full destruction and KE from a giant character doing what I labeled above across hundreds of kilometers is fine. It being rated as 7-B doesn't break the intention of the story here.

No, instead it'd just be highly presumptuous without much backing at all.

The destruction is not meant to be on par with the KE, or else KE would be a worthless rating.

• There is a destruction/AP calculation contradicting a kinetic energy calculation. The destruction/AP calculation would take priority over the kinetic energy calculation in this case as the AP calculation would be a better proof in regards to how much damage he/she is capable of in an attack.

The intention with the steel ball and the wall is meant to show if something is meant to be a feat in the first place. You are misunderstanding what it represents. Obviously there are exceptions to everything and yes it can work how you said.

Misunderstanding? No, I'm just going by a completely different rule than you are, and taking into account the verse's other showings and consistency, in regards to an upgrade, for said verse?

But I don't see how that is the case here.

Note: I'm not voting or going into the fact if the feat is an outlier for the verse in question. I just have an extremely massive problem with what you said here and I couldn't control my temper. Apologies for any disrespect I've shown you, I find it difficult to control myself at time and I don't mean anything personally.

I likely won't respond after this as I'm not super familiar enough with Chainsaw Man to give an accurate opinion on the scaling. I'd need to read the series over a few more times.

No offense taken, but it seems you kinda went off on me over a completely different issue then what I was even talking about

 

[Arkenis]

It moved for hundreds of kilometers and would've caused this level of destruction anywhere it moved. This is the 20% Gun Devil moving in the same chapter being used here.

Why show that? This better shows the destruction.

 

[Chariot190]

I would like to say again, I'm not disagreeing with the CRT, I just don't think a hypothetical KE feat without any support is the strongest grounds for the verse's AP. There isn't one thing in particular, but a few things that put me off to this, but I'm well aware that I might be overly cautious, so I'll wait to see what others have to say, at the moment, I'm neutral.

Why show that? This better shows the destruction.

That's not the best given 26 seconds, constant movement, and still quite literally thousands below the alleged KE. That whole panel should be dust the instant he moves.

 

[GunshyFever]

That's not the best given 26 seconds, constant movement, and still quite literally thousands below the alleged KE. That whole panel should be dust the instant he moves.

The scene represents the destruction the Gun Devil left behind after he disappeared & tbf he did go through like several different countries prior to his leave none of which were shown in the manga

 

[Chariot190]

The scene represents the destruction the Gun Devil left behind after he disappeared & tbf he did go through like several different countries prior to his leave none of which were shown in the manga

Yes but, the mere impact with a building should atomize it, the shockwave should completely dust that whole panel.
I can not stress enough, that gap we're talking about is over 10,000x, it is comparable to mangling a door, to blowing apart a city block (coincidentally, the type of stuff him moving does). And it should be like this at a constant rate, not accumulative, every instant he makes contact. Add the lack of support, it being a character movement, disproportionate stuff, a lil inconsistent, and this specific instance not having much backing, etc.

I'm just saying, again, I don't feel like KE is the most solid basis for the statistics, doesn't feel solid given all the other stuff. It just doesn't check out imo, but I'm completely willing to see what others say, if consensus is it's cool, then it's cool.

 

[Arkenis]

While I see Chariots point about the calc, I think a major point of scaling is the other Devils that were previously killed by csm.

Csm has killed the Nuke Weapons Devils, Mount Hio Eruption, and WW2. From what we know, these aren't Primal Fears, the fact csm could do this, and more, should show the tier of Primal Fears shouldn't be limited to 8-A to 7-C tiers.
Nuclear Weapons like the Tsar Bomba is already City+, Castle Bravo Bomb is 7-B, or B83 which also has reached 7-B. Volcanoes from what I seen also reach 7-B and given Makima mentions such an eruption, it was likely a devastating one. And I think WW2 is pretty obvious with bombs likes Fat Man.

Essentially the point is that if even these devils who represent such tiers, it doesn't make sense to suggest that the Primal Devils, the Gun Devil, and the four horseman aren't scaling far above them.

 

[Chariot190]

Eh, we know that Devil's can be both stronger, and weaker, than what they embody. (Also both we don't know how they'd compare to the Gun Devil itself when they existed, if they were stronger, it doesn't support the feat, it discredits it as not even the strongest nuke is as strong as its alleged mere movement).

Even then, I'd much rather you just use that to argue an upgrade over a disproportionate KE calc that is absolutely bordering on rule-breaking.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Tier 6 chainsaw man seems based

I want 6-B to 6-A if possible :3

Agree with everything btw

 

[Chariot190]

I want 6-B to 6-A if possible :3

Vibe scaling tells me it's High 6-A

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Vibe scaling tells me it's High 6-A

I hope

 

[GunshyFever]

Ill just rest my take here on this, I personally don't have a problem with the calc itself because it supports what the Gun Devil represents, leaving destruction everywhere he goes, if he didn't stop here I wouldn't be surprised if he eviscerated an entire City like he did previously. But on a complete side note I agree that scaling characters using a K.E feat to be sketchy due to his little screen time and we normal don't see the full scale of his attacks but rather a cropped portion of it which may lead to the question "can he really generate this much energy by his movements?" for me my answer to that is yes; since that's what the author is trying to depict, despite the lack of 7-B feats we don't really have any anti-feats for the Gun Devil (since the two times he appears he just leaves destruction) so I agree with it for now, but like Chariot I want to see what other staff think about the matter as well

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

The scaling looks accurate and fine, but I’m kind of on the fence in regards to the calculation going by points made above.

Neutral for now.

 

[Xaropadob3ta]

Wouldn't the second project be Calc Stacking? It has a feat in 100% speed, it's better than using theory as far as I knew.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Ik the calc is already accepted, but why does this wiki not consider it calc stacking?

 

[GunshyFever]

Ik the calc is already accepted, but why does this wiki not consider it calc stacking?

Multipliers

A multiplier is generally some number a different number is multiplied with to get a new number. For our VS Battles use we more specifically refer to a number as multiplier, if that number is multiplied with some statistic of a character or its attacks to get a new statistic for the character...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Multipliers

A multiplier is generally some number a different number is multiplied with to get a new number. For our VS Battles use we more specifically refer to a number as multiplier, if that number is multiplied with some statistic of a character or its attacks to get a new statistic for the character...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I was referring to KE calc, not the scaling






Also this wiki and gege on there way to try and hate gojo

 

[GunshyFever]

I was referring to KE calc, not the scaling

why would it be calc stacking?

Edit: If it was accepted I doubt that its cs

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

why would it be calc stacking?

Edit: If it was accepted I doubt that its cs

Cause it's calcing the mass, then the speed no and using them as the basis of another calc? I'm kinda foggy on the rules of calc-stacking here that's why, which is why I find it strange why these type of KE aren't considered CS.

 

[GunshyFever]

Cause it's calcing the mass, then the speed no and using them as the basis of another calc? I'm kinda foggy on the rules of calc-stacking here that's why, which is why I find it strange why these type of KE aren't considered CS.

The other calc was the speed of the Gun Devil in those events; (since the speed was already calced all he had to do was calc the mass of the Gun Devil in those moments to get its K.E, also remember both calcs are the Gun Devil in the same event; one calcs speed and one calcs mass), it was also accepted so everything should be fine.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

The other calc was the speed of the Gun Devil in those events; (since the speed was already calced all he had to do was calc the mass of the Gun Devil in those moments to get its K.E, also remember both calcs are the Gun Devil in the same event; one calcs speed and one calcs mass), it was also accepted so everything should be fine.

Yes, I know its accepted. I was talking about KE rules in general lol