Chainsaw Man Massive Upgrades and Profile Revisions

[Chariot190]

based on how feared they are

Yes, aka, not based on what they are.

actual nukes are not limited to 50 megaton ranges.

So? That means quite literally nothing in regard to how strong the Nuke Devil might be.

we dont because IRL nukes meet that criteria.

And Devils can be both stronger, or weaker, than what they embody.
And as you just said, based on fear.

Honestly, you seem to be trying to have your cake and eat it too, you keep arguing Nuke Devil doesn't need to conform to nukes, but then say things like irl nukes so it is.

its a non sequitur, the gun devil being a planet buster in this case would not change it either, he has his own calc, the point was that it was stupid to suddenly create an inconsistency by attributing that the COLLECTIVE FEAR of Nuclear weapons was attributed to a single nuke and thus it was impossible for the the nuke devil to scale above. you could have just said the devils strenght is proportional to their collective fear as oppose to their literal embodiment and called it a day.

And this is a complete strawman.
Who said anything about it being a single specific nuke? Because I definitely didn't. Is it because I said using the strongest potential nuke ain't it? Well, yeah, we don't have enough info, it could be a fucktillion times stronger, or weaker, no idea.

Fact of the matter is, like it or not, we have no idea how strong the nuke devil is. And even if we did, it wouldn't affect whether or not Gun Devil's "feat" (because his actual feat ain't 7-B mind you), is legitimate or not.

Though I will say, no, that whole hypothetical nuke shit we don't do, we need actual statements, we don't just run with the most generous high-end possible unless we have good reason to, we don't here, in fact we don't know much of anything about it.

Though, I'm just now realizing you're going off on me, because I replied to an argument doing that
and i did say it was based on fear, why do you think i keep saying the timeframe for when they fought matters?

Guns are definitely not more feared than Nukes, Guns while deadly are used for a variety of purposes outside of just killing people, often recreational like practice ranges,hunting ect. they are also used as a form of protection either enforced by the law or an individual in places where its allowed. guns are often feared in the here and now when its right in your face. we havent had nuclear bomb drop on a populace since world war 2 and the height of its fear was nearly 4 decades later, policies are made and constantly maintained because of those fears.

Vehemently disagree.

You said yourself below, the world ain't america, just because guns can be used for such things, doesn't change the fact that guns are predominately weapons used for killing that everyone fully grasps the concept of, are far more commonplace and likely to be encountered, and as such a much more common actual substantiated fear.

Those very regulations and why they haven't been used is also why I would argue guns are a more common fear than nukes, it's been so long and the actual risk and likelihood of them being used is so low, that it's barely even a blip on the general populace's radar, which kinda matters when talking about the collective fear embodying conceptual demon, it's precisely why Darkness and Falling Devil are top dogs.
You mention 4 decades later, but yeah, because there was an actual nuclear threat and paranoia at the time, I don't feel like I need to give you a history lesson?

I hope to God I don't have to be the person to bring up the constant shootings and massacres in 3rd world countries to prove a point on a battle board on why guns might, just maybe, be more feared than nukes, generally speaking, in the same way fear of heights is more commonly feared than being shot in the face by a m16 carbine, even if one is 100% fatal and falling down the stairs might not be.

the world isnt america.

You're right, as above, guns are definitely feared far more elsewhere where there are actual wars going on and mass shootings.

I dont walk down a bad street because i fear i might be robbed or killed, not because i specifically think someone will pull out a desert eagle .

Yeah, usually by knife or gunpoint? Don't be semantic, you know full well what I'm saying.

based on what?, to steelman this we, the car devil could be an end game villain for all we know but i digress, if people dont fear those things as much then the gun devil would obviously be stronger.

Precisely, and I am arguing, based on what we know, we have no reason to assume the Nuke Devil is stronger than the Gun Devil.
Like, it could be? Or it might not be? We do not know, Nuke Devil shouldn't have even been brought up, it's too vague to work with.
We simply do not have enough info to make that claim. We just know it existed. And ultimately, doesn't effect the GD feat anyway, like I said about a page ago.

Its irrelevant , because the actual value of one specific nuke doesnt matter, the point that your missing is that a collective fear of something isnt bound by 1 specific nuke, in the same way the fear of falling isnt bound by falling off 10 meters or falling from space down to orbit. the fear of something itself is what matters. also to steelman this, a collective fear would account for every nuke detonated by your criteria.

By my criteria? My criteria is "devils can be both stronger, or weaker, than what they embody" and "we do not know how strong the nuke devil is, or when pochita killed it, so it being like 100-1000mt or whatever, we can't actually say".

And no, why would my criteria account for every nuke? In what world do you get that from anything I've said? Where's my 7-C Bucky because he's the embodiment of every chicken ever feared? Demonstrably not my criteria lad.

I'm not sure why you're continuously strawmanning me.

the hypothetical is whats feared about nukes largely, because the amount of people that have experienced a Nuke in their day to day is very very very small (obviously) often being shared by the populace that were specifically targeted, their Living relatives and Military officials who were part or witnessed the detonation test.

the entire existence of laws and prevention of nuclear warfare is entirely based on a Hypothetical of mutual destruction and global annihilation, fear of nukes are predicated on assumptions for obvious reasons, because unlike a Gun, nukes dont normally let you do easy do overs.

Yes, and because of this, I'd argue nukes, aren't as feared as guns. Nukes might be above guns (duh), but what matters is what's actually feared more given how Devils work.

You said it yourself, falling like 10m and darkness aren't as deadly as the actual devils that embody those things, because those concepts are feared more regardless. This is bad, because a weaker thing can be above the inherently stronger thing, opening up the Gun Devil and Nuke Devil's relativity being completely unknown.

You act as if these rules' existence means nukes are feared generally, yeah, they were, this caused the formation of these laws, but time passed, obviously we still have these laws, why wouldn't we? But it isn't like 60s. Most people don't even think about them.

chickens are a common farm animals domesticated for quite literally thousands of years.

Yes and? Chickens are also well and above whatever Bucky was, and there's breeds that would mutilate even the strongest human, and the collective fear of them?
Devils do not adhere to what they embody, strictly. We need more info.

a 100 megaton nuke existing isnt hypothetical but okay pop off

Unless we've actively made one and such a thing is encompassed and embodied by the fear of the Nuke Devil, which, we absolutely can't say, yes, in context, that's all it is.

i guess we should get rid of 80% of our standards given you cant prove them in a controlled enviroment.

False equivalence. I'm not even sure how to reply to this except, stop?

Its easy to debate a person made of straw

then maybe explain why its sus outside of nonsense like

"But that doesn't actually tackle the issue, by this logic, a Nuke Devil would be stronger than a Gun Devil, so why is a Gun Devil, merely moving, above the absolute highest nukes ever used? This doesn't support the KE, it discredits if anything."

Nonsense? I stand by it, don't strip away the context of what I was replying to, that's an actual Grade A strawman, ironically enough.

I was replying to someone who said nukes can go up to 100mt, so Pochita beating it would be 100mt, and the Nuke Devil should be > Gun Devil so it's consistent.

As such, I replied by this logic, the Gun Devil's mere movement being above the strongest nukes ever deployed, when in this argument, the Nuke Devil is being argued as nuke level and yet above Gun Devil, doesn't make sense if nuke devil is stronger with nukes as the benchmark.

But yes sure, go on.

"I'm not so sure, I don't wanna call it an outlier, but more like, is calcing this and treating it like an actual feat even the right call?"

all this comes off as as an appeal to Incredulity solely based on huur durr 16 000x is a big number Impossbiru

No it's more like it's bordering on breaking KE, disproportionate destruction literally thousands of times less than what should be depicted, not actually corroborated by anything, and yes, 16,000 is, in fact, a large jump without solid evidence. None of this is incredulity, it's called basic wiki standards, making sure it's solid first if this upgrade is going to serve as the basis for the ratings?

So yes, I'm not so sure calcing a KE feat for a character moving getting 5 digits above what the very movement being calced shows, let alone any other onscreen feat at the time, is the right call.

And I would appreciate it if you could hold a conversation without your demeaning tone, you know better than that.
Would also appreciate if you didn't try and paint me as "big number = bad" like you're evidently attempting to do. I couldn't care less if they get a huge jump, in fact, I've noted a few times that the High 6-A gravity feat would, unironically, lack the problems this "feat" has, and I'd be completely fine with it even.
So I'd ask you to refrain from further arguments like that.

we have objectively and broadly on a consistent bases have characters and verses jump entire tiers with a single feat, in fact a single feat sometimes is the linchpin for an entire verses scaling , and oftens by gaps of cosmological differences. the numerical gap isnt itself nearly enough just to say "outlier" its stuff like

Of course, no problem with that. I said that, multiple times. In a vacuum it'd be completely fine, first thing I said even.
This isn't a vacuum, it's numerous small things including the very feat in question being suspect.
Let me reiterate,

• Kinetic Energy based on Movement Speed is case by case: Fiction often treats the speed with which a character can move himself as unrelated to their attack power. As such feats like just running or carrying a small object, like another character, should only be used if the fiction has made clear that the speed of the movement correlates to the character's power or if the character uses the fast moving object to attack. Calculating the energy necessary for moving large structures at great speeds, using the speed things move as a secondary effect of an attack, throwing objects at great speeds etc. are all acceptable methods of quantifying a characters power regardless.
• The calculated kinetic energy value is heavily inconsistent with the rest of the cast in the series. EX: Quicksilver's calculated speed cannot be used to derive kinetic energy as it heavily contradicts his established power levels.
• There is a destruction/AP calculation contradicting a kinetic energy calculation. The destruction/AP calculation would take priority over the kinetic energy calculation in this case as the AP calculation would be a better proof in regards to how much damage he/she is capable of in an attack.

Gun Devil is a character, and this calc is based strictly on its movement speed. Not an issue by itself. Of course we have Kaiju KE rules (though I feel like you all are kind of stretching it a bit thin), but the Kaiju KE rule is just saying you can, it's allowed, not that the other rules get ignored, it still has to not break or conflict with the rules at hand. This is still something that needs to be weighed. Plus, he doesn't even actually attack this way.

The calculated value is 16,000x above the next highest calc, despite your claims this is somehow an argument from incredulity, as established, a feat being high doesn't automatically discredit it, but in his case the "Feat" in question is a character's KE via movement speed, disproportionately above everything else we can confirm, like it or not, KE feats are bit wacky if there's no corroborative feats, being higher ain't bad but magnitudes? Eh. Not an issue by itself, but combined, idk lad.

And lastly 3rd, the actual destruction caused by Gun Devil's movement, is tens of thousands of times below its calced KE, which is a major problem. Sure KE and destruction being 1:1 is asking too much, but the calc dictates Gun Devil's movement is quite literally nuke level.
The actual destruction his movement showcases, is magnitudes less, unapologetically so, the moment he grazes a building, the building shouldn't be fragmented, it should be all but vaporized, along with everything around it.

These 3 issues combined, makes even calcing this feat, suspect, at least in my opinion, feels like too many small red flags.

The existence of a nuke devil we dont know how powerful it is, or High 6-A grav, or anything else, doesn't actually help this case. So not sure why we're even arguing about him.

• Notable consistent anti feats
• Premise breaking or narrative breaking
• is there a context that changes why it may or may not scale

as per our own standards
"If a character with several city destruction feats is shown to be able to destroy a mountain, we cannot necessarily consider it as an outlier, for the reason that the jump between tiers is not extreme enough to be so, despite the jump between energy values we attribute to them. If the character has very few feats, we can likely ignore this point. "

This is a whole lot of nothing and not actually arguing the issue.
In fact,
"That would be ok if there was a good reason, a feat being very high doesn't discredit it automatically, like something to explain the gap jump or it having zero anti-feats or ones that can be handwaved, " - Me like 5 days ago.

Why are you repeating things I said myself, to me, as if that's even remotely the crux of the issue?

obviously if your issues encompass all of these and you have evidence or you as a calc member actually sees legitmate issue with the calc itself, then sure by all means, I wont argue with you.

That's all you've been doing though? Most of which I feel is you grossly misunderstanding what I'm even saying as me hating big number or cutting in with me replying to someone's else argument and then going off because thatmoron argued nuke lv stuff and I replied with that premise, as if that was my argument, to begin with

 

[Zabazab]

The calculated kinetic energy value is heavily inconsistent with the rest of the cast in the series. EX: Quicksilver's calculated speed cannot be used to derive kinetic energy as it heavily contradicts his established power levels.

God tiers were already scaling above the Gun Devil's 5 kiloton value, and the Gun Devil has zero anti-feats, so this one isn't an issue.

There is a destruction/AP calculation contradicting a kinetic energy calculation. The destruction/AP calculation would take priority over the kinetic energy calculation in this case as the AP calculation would be a better proof in regards to how much damage he/she is capable of in an attack.

The Gun Devil did not slam into anything or make a crater, something that'd take priority. It, flying ~20 metres above a city, caused a trail of destruction through it and the rest of the nation.

It'd be like instead of the steel ball example used on the page bouncing off of a wall (thereby disqualifying the KE), the steel ball flew above a city while simultaneously destroying it and never slowing down.

 

[Chariot190]

God tiers were already scaling above the Gun Devil's 5 kiloton value, and the Gun Devil has zero anti-feats, so this one isn't an issue.

The God tiers don't affect whether or not Gun Devil's calc is suspect. And they scale above him, simply because they >, but they themselves lack any feats to corroborate this calc, in fact them scaling above him means whatever feats they do have, doesn't help support GD's feat given GD is below them so it can still very well not be consistent with dudes at his lv, but mind you, the next best feat being 8-A of all things by Pochita doesn't help, so no, the rule still applies given GD, at the moment, is why they're at that lv.

And 5 kilotons Which mind you happens off-screen within a 26 second timeframe last I checked, is not 80 megatons. The most destructive we've ever seen it move, and the calced KE of it moving, is 16000x apart.

I really wouldn't say it doesn't have anti-feats unless you count being harmed by attacks that dealt magnitudes less, which normally I wouldn't, but when you have quite literally nothing to corroborate a random KE movement that doesn't align with what we see, well...

But again, the argument isn't big number = outlier, which seems to be a common misconception being had here, it's that the KE calc itself, is exponentially above what's been shown at the time, which is kind of a rule with KE in specific. The gravity feat or nuke devil could be 100% legit, and even above GD's calc, and there'd be no issue as with them given the premise and feats in question.

The Gun Devil did not slam into anything or make a crater, something that'd take priority. It, flying ~20 metres above a city, caused a trail of destruction through it and the rest of the nation.

Yes, the destruction doesn't align with the calculated value. I don't think you realize what 80 megatons means, every time he grazes a building, there shouldn't be huge massive building dozen meter wide chunks left over. Everything in the vicinity should be pulverized into dust. We are talking about movement, quite literally, more catastrophic than a literal nuke funnily enough.

It'd be like instead of the steel ball example used on the page bouncing off of a wall (thereby disqualifying the KE), the steel ball flew above a city while simultaneously destroying it and never slowing down.

No, it wouldn't? Ignoring how the steel ball example doesn't quite work the same, as the Gun Devil is always applying constant momentum to itself as it moves, unlike the steel ball where it gets launched and that's that.
Every single moment the Gun Devil moves, there should be literal nuke level destruction, not the 8-B level destruction we see it generate as it treks along.
I can not stress enough, the gap between what GD's movement actually does, and what GD's movement should be doing according to the calc, is the difference between what we see GD's movement actually do, and blowing out a wall.

 

[Zabazab]

Which mind you happens off-screen within a 26 second timeframe last I checked

Just wanting to say about this;

Gun Devil was in Japan for 26 seconds. The feat was not over 26 seconds. What we see is just a tiny tiny fraction of the destruction that it caused. Which again, is just from it flying close-by.

In fact in this scene the Gun Devil was moving at at least >Mach 300, so this very feat was performed in less than a split-second.

 

[Chariot190]

Gun Devil was in Japan for 26 seconds. The feat was not over 26 seconds. What we see is just a tiny tiny fraction of the destruction that it caused. Which again, is just from it flying close-by.

I'm well aware, unfortunately, that's the issue with entirely off-screen feats, we don't know how much of that time it took to do the 5kt destruction, which doesn't change anything because even if that was a literal instant, it's still 16,000x less what it should have been. I'm not gonna say that feat ain't fine or whatever if i did the discrepency would go up to like 200,000x

In fact in this scene the Gun Devil was moving at at least >Mach 300, so this very feat was performed in less than a split-second.

I mean yeah? It moving mach 300+ is why the KE is getting 7-B.
That's kinda the issue, the destruction it causes is just like a constant trail of 8-B fuckery as it speeds along, it being done in a split second don't mean anything when he's applying constant momentum to himself, he isn't like say, he jumped and all that destruction stems from one action like Pochita's kick, it's more like a car or plane ripping up a road as they drive along.

Of course I'm not saying that invalidates KE, what matters for a KE calc is just speed and mass, time be damned. But, when talking about the destruction caused, you can't really go "oh he caused 7-B levels of destruction after flying across a ludicrous amount of land at a constant rate", no, that 8-B, maybe 8-A levels of destruction you see him do moment by moment? Should be more like the whole city.

 

[Dalesean027]

Chariot makes a valid point here imo the on screen per second destruction certainly isn't 7-B as it should be at literally every instance if we were to scale ke to it

Several kilometers at every point just be completely pulverized and empty wastelands without large parts of buildings remaining as they are shown to.

This isn't like a its direct path thing it should be like this at every instance the moment it moves

It should be like this at 30 seconds

 

[Vzearr]

I'm slightly confused, the gun devil was in the air right? Wouldn't the destruction it caused just be from the pressure of it moving without touching the surrounding area? It's obviously not going to be proportionate to its KE if its not touching the ground.

Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Dalesean027]

I'm slightly confused, the gun devil was in the air right? Wouldn't the destruction it caused just be from the pressure of it moving? It's obviously not going to be proportionate to its KE if its not touching the ground.

Maybe I'm missing something.

This is a constant 80 megatons of KE you're talking about it at every moment of its movement at every instancr that goes by by all rights should be entirely devastating to everything to a utterly insane degree

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

This is a constant 80 megatons of KE you're talking about it at every moment of its movement at every instancr that goes by by all rights should be entirely devastating to everything to a utterly insane degree

Isn't the only shot we see of the destruction in one panel when its standing still.

 

[Chariot190]

I'm slightly confused, the gun devil was in the air right? Wouldn't the destruction it caused just be from the pressure of it moving without touching the surrounding area? It's obviously not going to be proportionate to its KE if its not touching the ground.

Maybe I'm missing something.

The instant it so much grazes something, which it will given its ammo drags like mere feet off the ground based on the very panel being scaled, bam, total annihilation, and it sure ain't that high up, any decent highrise in its way is making direct contact with it, or even any decently tall building, which, coincidentally, we do see in his path of destruction, one even has a blatant crater in it, which I can only assume is from GD smacking into it.

The whole "he's flying" ignores the fact that yeah, he do, through buildings tall enough that he'd ram into them because he's flying, right above the ground, not in the sky (he's just kinda big so central mass is like 15m+ up), hell we even see a 10+ story building in one panel.
Quite literally anything 15m+ tall, he's bashing into with his torso.

Maybe if it was skyline this would be a solid argument but ISL at huge distances is how we get 5-C deku so...

The feat doesn't really adhere to any of the rules imo.

Isn't the only shot we see of the destruction in one panel when its standing still.

We see some buildings get blown away as it zips past. Which is hefty but like, probably 8-B? Max? Tbh thinking about it, the very trees he stopped at, would have nicked him and all that happened there was they got blown down and made a 7-C crater.

 

[GunshyFever]

I think the calc is debatable in its arguments (the classic "when to use KE" discussion, the notion of linear scaling for 20% vs 100% mass, etc) and I don't know that I would agree with the interpretations of the thread fully, either- particularly the "some gun devil" comment could mean something much different than "aha, we're gonna shitstomp that guy". I will agree, at the very least, that the thread presents a good possibility, even if one that I would consider weaker than ideal, and would agree with "At least 7-B, possibly 7-A".

If someone could summarize the outlier argument in one post (or direct me to one where this is already embodied), I would like that, spares me some time going through the thread.

Your vote will be counted, and as for them upscaling to 7-A is mainly from the transcendence statement

The issues for it being an outlier is that the verse lacks the back up calcs to defend such a high rating from just mere movement, and despite the Gun Devil still destroying things while flying by it doesn't equate to 7-B destruction and leaves behind some parts of buildings in the area instead of completely wiping the areas it flies over

Arguments have been made against it such as most of the destruction done was cropped out which is true but some buildings are still left flattened instead of being completely destroyed which is mainly what someone with that high amount of K.E would do

Here are some of GD's destruction feats to help you form an opinion;
100%
Here
Here
20%
Here
Here
Here

 

[GunshyFever]

Would any one who is participating in this discussion like to leave their vote or share their opinion on this matter?

 

[GunshyFever]

Bump

 

[Hiiilt]

Would any one who is participating in this discussion like to leave their vote or share their opinion on this matter?

only staff votes count, right?

btw, you didn't add bambu vote yet

 

[GunshyFever]

only staff votes count, right?

Yeah

btw, you didn't add bambu vote yet

Ill add the votes now

 

[GunshyFever]

I updated it, hoping I didn't miss any votes

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yeah I'd still call the upscaling tenuous.

As for the lack of feats... the fact that large amounts of destruction seem to occur just because the thing is around rather than any active participation on its behalf does help justify using the 7-B value somewhat, but I would agree that nothing in those scans is going to surpass 8-A or thereabouts. I admit it could be a case of a singular outlier feat, although if it becomes strictly too muddied one could default to "At least 8-B, possibly 7-B" for all of them and call it a day, since this isn't clear cut one way or the other, I figure.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

They're currently 7-C tho

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Brother I'm looking at Makima's page right now, yeah the Primordials are 7-C but if I were referring to them I'd say "At least 7-C, possibly 7-B", wouldn't I

Sort of went without saying, I would have imagined

 

[GunshyFever]

Brother I'm looking at Makima's page right now, yeah the Primordials are 7-C but if I were referring to them I'd say "At least 7-C, possibly 7-B", wouldn't I

Sort of went without saying, I would have imagined

I can agree with this line of scaling

 

[Dalesean027]

Yeah I'd still call the upscaling tenuous.

As for the lack of feats... the fact that large amounts of destruction seem to occur just because the thing is around rather than any active participation on its behalf does help justify using the 7-B value somewhat, but I would agree that nothing in those scans is going to surpass 8-A or thereabouts. I admit it could be a case of a singular outlier feat, although if it becomes strictly too muddied one could default to "At least 8-B, possibly 7-B" for all of them and call it a day, since this isn't clear cut one way or the other, I figure.

Sure I'd say possibly works since we don't really getter shots of its destruction and those we do get aren't even remotely near what would occur with 80 megaton KE

 

[Chariot190]

and despite the Gun Devil still destroying things while flying by it doesn't equate to 7-B destruction and leaves behind some parts of buildings in the area instead of completely wiping the areas it flies over

This is honestly kind of a iffy argument, he's flying, but you act as if he's flying above the skyline or something, he isn't, he's floating mere feet off the ground, anything that's like 15-16m tall, he's outright smashing into with his torso, which is to say anything as big as like a 4 story building or above, he's smashing into directly, the "flying/wind pressure" argument doesn't work. This is problematic when we see in his dash feat buildings over 4 stories tall in his direct path that are messed up, but mostly intact. One even looks like he rammed into it given the cratering.

Arguments have been made against it such as most of the destruction done was cropped out which is true but some buildings are still left flattened instead of being completely destroyed which is mainly what someone with that high amount of K.E would do

That isn't actually true, the only time we see buildings actually get flattened, we have no idea how it actually happened because it was all offscreen in a 26 second timeframe. In 100% no less, not 20%.

Most of the destruction being cropped doesn't matter, we DO see it moment by moment, and it doesn't add up.

100%
Here

Offscreen, don't know how, was over 26 seconds. And this is the calc that's 16,000x less, to begin with, in a form 5x stronger than this one.

Here

This is the very panel that we get its height off, and the destruction is only 8-A+ iirc, we have a calc somewhere for it.

Yeah I'd still call the upscaling tenuous.

As for the lack of feats... the fact that large amounts of destruction seem to occur just because the thing is around rather than any active participation on its behalf does help justify using the 7-B value somewhat,

The scans listed under 20%, is the 7-B KE Calc in question. Him flying about 500km to reach Makima, smashing through a city and whatnot on his way, before stripping away a forest about 1-2km away and taking aim.
Which is to say, the 8-B/8-B scans as he rips his way through, is what's being calced at 7-B.

 

[That_moron2]

I agree with a possibly.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Kinda controversial but "Possibly" should work. Waiting for tier 6 CSM next 2 months

 

[GunshyFever]

Sure I'd say possibly works since we don't really getter shots of its destruction and those we do get aren't even remotely near what would occur with 80 megaton KE

Assuming your agreeing with Mr. Bambu's line of scaling?

 

[Dalesean027]

Assuming your agreeing with Mr. Bambu's line of scaling?

Yeah either we have possibly or outright not using it due to lack of actual shown KE feats on nearly that level at all even remotely

 

[GunshyFever]

I counted all the votes we have enough to make changes, but I still want Chariots final opinion as well as the opinion of other staff members on Mr.Bambu's scaling

 

[GunshyFever]

Dunno if this is important to the thread but the Gun Devil's city wipe got upgraded to 7-C which is good, regarding the 8-A+ calc I heard it could be upgraded which would support the Gun Devil's K.E consistently around 7-C and likely help barely close the already large gap of the K.E calc

 

[LordGinSama]

Ehhhh don't think I'm necessarily on board with 7-B for Bambu's and Chariot's reasons.


I'd definitely say that the outlier argument is very much legitimate but I'm also aware of how laxed we are when it comes to feats being an outlier.


If there were more feats at range I'd say it's fine but there aren't. (Best thing is the falling Devil's gravity hax but since CSM doesn't have a UES it's pretty much irrelevant as nobody ever matches her gravity hax.)

 

[That_moron2]

What about the Typhoon Devil's Low 7-B storm?

 

[GunshyFever]

Ehhhh don't think I'm necessarily on board with 7-B for Bambu's and Chariot's reasons.


I'd definitely say that the outlier argument is very much legitimate but I'm also aware of how laxed we are when it comes to feats being an outlier.


If there were more feats at range I'd say it's fine but there aren't. (Best thing is the falling Devil's gravity hax but since CSM doesn't have a UES it's pretty much irrelevant as nobody ever matches her gravity hax.)

The feat was never an outlier, it's just a misunderstanding to what Chariot is trying to say which is that the 20% Gun Devil in that same calc is not generally doing as much destruction as 17 Megaton K.E would do. An example of this is 20% GD ripping trough the city which we see in two 8-B scans, and stopping creating a 8-A+ crater even adding those up we don't get 7-B and that's the issue. Mainly it being a K.E calc which we have less proof for rather than a general destruction feat which we actually see and have proof for.

Bambu suggests a "possibly" rating for the calc which is more logical

 

[GunshyFever]

What about the Typhoon Devil's Low 7-B storm?

Environmental Destruction like the FD's gravity hax

Edit: Curious if any of the high tiers would scale to it because if the Typhoon Devil can generate that much energy, by fear scaling rules characters listed in the OP should scale above it

 

[LordGinSama]

Actually is it possible to calculate the Darkness Devil creating a vast amount of Darkness instantly?

 

[LordGinSama]

The feat was never an outlier, it's just a misunderstanding to what Chariot is trying to say which is that the 20% Gun Devil in that same calc is not generally doing as much destruction as 17 Megaton K.E would do. An example of this is 20% GD ripping trough the city which we see in two 8-B scans, and stopping creating a 8-A+ crater even adding those up we don't get 7-B and that's the issue. Mainly it being a K.E calc which we have less proof for rather than a general destruction feat which we actually see and have proof for.

Bambu suggests a "possibly" rating for the calc which is more logical

Not sure if I agree with the possibly rating since it'd be more of an issue with KE rules rather then the feat itself being wrong.


If it doesn't really qualify for KE standards then it shouldn't get even a possibly. Just my two cents.

 

[GunshyFever]

Actually is it possible to calculate the Darkness Devil creating a vast amount of Darkness instantly?

I imagine that it would be planetary similar to the Falling Devils range, but I think its calcable since we do see a certain distance when the Devil Hunters are sent to hell and when the darkness Devil arrives everything from that point on is just covered in darkness

 

[GunshyFever]

If it doesn't really qualify for KE standards then it shouldn't get even a possibly. Just my two cents.

It qualifies for it but because of the destruction we actually see its more on the borderline of rule breaking, regarding what we see of the Gun Devil its either we give them a possibly or not at all

I agree with a possibly rating since we don't necessarily have any anti-feats

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Actually is it possible to calculate the Darkness Devil creating a vast amount of Darkness instantly?

How would you do that?

 

[Damage3245]

If it doesn't really qualify for KE standards then it shouldn't get even a possibly.

That's my thoughts on it currently.

 

[Chariot190]

I imagine that it would be planetary similar to the Falling Devils range, but I think its calcable since we do see a certain distance when the Devil Hunters are sent to hell and when the darkness Devil arrives everything from that point on is just covered in darkness

I don't think it'd be planetary, for the same reason lighting up the planet is only 6-C i also have no idea how to calc "darkness" without going into complete guesswork on the mechanics behind it, like how does he make darkness? does he destroy the light photons and whatnot in the environment? darkness is just the absence of light after all. Is it wacky supernatural goop like El Aleph or that mf from FMA? Not knowing HOW he does is it, is an issue.
Grav shit is anywhere between like High 6-A+ to barely a little over baseline 5-B, I'd assume the falling devil, based on what it is, is gonna have gravity attacks to simulate "falling", and Pochita or Denji is gonna get hit by a full power grav attack or some shit that we can reasonably conclude is > passive summoning gravity, at some point, so it's just a matter of time.

 

[LordGinSama]

Think the falling devil isn't gonna be relevant in the plot anymore tbh.