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Gun Devil K.E revision

GunshyFever

GunshyFever

1,128
660
Introduction
A while back, I created this thread to bump all high-god tiers of the Chainsaw Man verse to City level+ to Mountain level. However, it was rejected based on two main points:

1. The destruction displayed by the Gun Devil indicates that KE-based calculations are not reliable.
2. This feat is considered an outlier.

Arguments
1. The first argument doesn't appear to be logical at all. Makima spots the Gun Devil at a distance of 500 km after it has been moving towards her for 1 second. The Gun Devil continues moving towards Makima for an additional 2 seconds before it stops and begins firing. The distance from the Gun Devil to Makima when it stops is 1.5 km (his maximum known range), which in turn is Massively Hypersonic. Considering his mass, this gives you his K.E. The problem raised by multiple CGM's is that the sequence of destruction does not align with 7-B K.E, which would vaporize everything without leaving anything behind. This is disingenuous because the author doesn't write his manga to validate calcs. Moreover, the scene was meant to portray the destruction and death of many innocent lives rather than the absolute destruction a being with 7-B K.E would cause.

2. This argument doesn't hold either. The Gun Devil is shown to be the strongest non-primal devil in the series, having feats that no low to mid-tier would scale to at all apart from Angel, which Makima needed to utilize 1000 years of lifespan to reach this level of AP using his weapons. His current highest feat was done when he was at full power, moving at mach 300+ and flattening multiple skyscrapers with his K.E. We were only shown a cropped portion of this damage, so the potential damage could extend for kilometers.

Mainly, this thread was created for other CGM's to lay their opinion on the matter.

Scaling
Scaling remains the same as the previous thread, which I will re-list here.

Note:
Fear Scaling: As Devils embodying the fear of a concept, the more feared they are, the more powerful they become even a relatively minor boost in fear can immensely boost a devil's overall strength and effects of their abilities, Due to this once a Devil is more feared than another Devil, their AP and Speed surpasses that said devil.

Characters who Upscale from the Gun Devil 100%'s AP to 100 Megatons (Mountain level)
Primordial Devils; These devils have been described as "transcendent" compared normal devils and have never experienced death before due to their immerse power, as they possess names that are feared by nearly every human on the Planet, eg; Falling and Darkness. They have been stated to be far stronger than the likes of "some Gun Devil", a weakened Falling Devil with just her appearance on earth caused gravity fluctuations all around the globe causing nations to suffer from damage and become immensely poorer

The Chainsaw Devil; Is known as the devil that devils fears the most which puts him at a comparable level to the Primordial Devils and far above the Gun Devil, Makima considered a proper fight with Pochita "unwinnable" and needed to resort to heavily depowering him, simultaneously fought both 4 Horsemen & the Weapon Devils while in Hell one of the four horsemen being the Death Devil whom is the strongest Devil with the name most feared of all, Makima planned to use the Chainsaw Devil's power to erase her from existence. Defeated devils that embodied concepts such as nuclear weapons, an in-universe volcano eruption and starlight that would break children's minds showing his extreme superiority to the Gun Devil

Characters who scale to the Gun Devil 100%'s AP
Makima: Makima is the Control Devil; (The devil that embodies the fear of loosing free will) her fear reaches a greater extent due to countries all around the world having fear for Makima and refused to stand in her way of bringing peace, due to this her AP would scale to 85.98 Megatons due to being able to draw blood from the Chainsaw Devil.

That's all.

Agree: (0:1) @FuriousFieryFist

Disagree: (2:3) @Chariot190, @Raiden38, @That_moron2, @AnAverageUsername, @SunDaGamer

Neutral: (0:0)
 
Last edited:
This thread shouldn't be as bad as the original, since nobody really understood what was being argued against regarding the calc, which just caused confusion.
 
GunshyFever said:
This is disingenuous because the author doesn't write his manga to validate calcs. Moreover, the scene was meant to portray the destruction and death of many innocent lives rather than the absolute destruction a being with 7-B K.E would cause.
Click to expand...
You LITERALLY just proved why the feat is bunk.

You're getting an overinflated KE the author had zero intent on portraying and thus, didn't portray.

Classic example of when not to calc something. The feat ain't real.
And that doesn't get rid of the problem, the KE doesn't align with the calc, not even 1/1000th, thus it breaks the rules and can't be used.
GunshyFever said:
2. This argument doesn't hold either. The Gun Devil is shown to be the strongest non-primal devil in the series, having feats that no low to mid-tier would scale to at all apart from Angel, which Makima needed to utilize 1000 years of lifespan to reach this level of AP using his weapons.
Click to expand...
This doesn't matter? Whether or not the feat is high, low, or whatever, doesn't change the fact it's wrong and breaks the rules.
GunshyFever said:
His current highest feat was done when he was at full power, moving at mach 300+ and flattening multiple skyscrapers with his K.E.
Click to expand...
Flattening skyscrapers being all he did, and sometimes, not even that, is over 1000x off the calc my dude
GunshyFever said:
We were only shown a cropped portion of this damage, so the potential damage could extend for kilometers.
Click to expand...
This is a very, very, bad example.
Yeah, the damage does extend kilometers, because he's constantly moving, leaving behind a trail.
No shit the destruction is gonna extend the whole length of where he moved 🗿

The problem, is that he needs to display that type of destruction every moment. His ass flying a few hundred km and ripping up a trail of devastation doesn't support the calc, for example, say you have a jack hammer, and ya drag it across some road, damn that's a big trail right? Must be 9-A or even 8-C? No. Because that wasn't done in a instant, some shit here.
That very scan shows the width mind you, and it's like, maybe a city block wide? When it should the entire panel, and beyond, for a few km.

PLUS, this, isn't even true, we see multiple skyscrapers he made direct contact with, and weren't obliterated. We even see a skyscraper caved in on the side that he bumped into in the sequence of panels, and basic angsizing the distance from a few of his zoom in panels gets what, a few hundred meters at best?

id post scans again, but we did that last thread, nothing new was brought up, and you excluded the sus panels too like the caved in building, do we need some sort of discussion rule for this as nothing new was brought forth or said.
 
Chariot190 said:
You LITERALLY just proved why the feat is bunk.

You're getting an overinflated KE the author had zero intent on portraying and thus, didn't portray.

Classic example of when not to calc something. The feat ain't real.
And that doesn't get rid of the problem, the KE doesn't align with the calc, not even 1/1000th, thus it breaks the rules and can't be used.

This doesn't matter? Whether or not the feat is high, low, or whatever, doesn't change the fact it's wrong and breaks the rules.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure the destruction was counterintuitive because the GD was flying right over these buildings. In a sense that he was hovering over them to such an extent that the main thing producing the said K.E is his mass, which is not even shown in the panels as it is far above them. This would affect the K.E. no matter how weaker it would be, even if it is 1/1000th weaker and even far below that. The K.E is not being used effectively since he is hovering over the said buildings to fly towards his destination. My claim that the author is not showing the said destruction effectively is exactly what the OP says, to display the destruction and death of many innocent lives.
Chariot190 said:
Flattening skyscrapers being all he did, and sometimes, not even that, is over 1000x off the calc my dude
Click to expand...
Considering that his initial speed is far slower than his speed during his journey past Japan, it is obvious that his K.E. would be weaker. How can you maintain the K.E. produced when you were moving at Mach 700+ if you are instead moving at a far lower speed, such as Mach 300+, which by right, would generate far less damage? That's how K.E. is determined in the first place, by speed and mass. How are you supposed to keep the same 7-B K.E. if you are not moving at the correct speeds to maintain it?
Chariot190 said:
This is a very, very, bad example.
Yeah, the damage does extend kilometers, because he's constantly moving, leaving behind a trail.
No shit the destruction is gonna extend the whole length of where he moved 🗿

The problem, is that he needs to display that type of destruction every moment. His ass flying a few hundred km and ripping up a trail of devastation doesn't support the calc, for example, say you have a jack hammer, and ya drag it across some road, damn that's a big trail right? Must be 9-A or even 8-C? No. Because that wasn't done in a instant, some shit here.
That very scan shows the width mind you, and it's like, maybe a city block wide? When it should the entire panel, and beyond, for a few km.

PLUS, this, isn't even true, we see multiple skyscrapers he made direct contact with, and weren't obliterated. We even see a skyscraper caved in on the side that he bumped into in the sequence of panels, and basic angsizing the distance from a few of his zoom in panels gets what, a few hundred meters at best?

id post scans again, but we did that last thread, nothing new was brought up, and you excluded the sus panels too like the caved in building, do we need some sort of discussion rule for this as nothing new was brought forth or said.
Click to expand...
Same goes for this as well. I understand that using the fact that his damage extended for kilometers was a bad example. However, I believe the argument that it is an outlier just isn't applicable. It's better to argue that the calc is wrong rather than argue that it's an outlier because by all means if it were just up to this, he would scale.
 
GunshyFever said:
I'm pretty sure the destruction was counterintuitive because the GD was flying right over these buildings.
Click to expand...
We literally went through this last time, GD's central mass is low enough to where any 6 story building, he'd make direct contact with. And that's ignoring his ammo that'd literally hit everything. AND that's ignoring how we see him hit stuff, like dog, we do see a few buildings, such as a 10+ story building, caved in, the fact it was caved in and not vaporized, is a huge flag.
GunshyFever said:
In a sense that he was hovering over them to such an extent that the main thing producing the said K.E is his mass, which is not even shown in the panels as it is far above them.
Click to expand...
Again, wrong, even pixel scaled this and circled panels last thread.
GunshyFever said:
This would affect the K.E. no matter how weaker it would be, even if it is 1/1000th weaker and even far below that. The K.E is not being used effectively since he is hovering over the said buildings to fly towards his destination.
Click to expand...
Again, wrong, we see buildings he DIRECTLY rammed into, the argument here is just factually incorrect, he DID make direct contact with buildings.
GunshyFever said:
My claim that the author is not showing the said destruction effectively is exactly what the OP says, to display the destruction and death of many innocent lives.
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter, you literally just pointed out how the author had no intention of conveying a beyond nuke lv KE feat. All while actively drawing effects thousands of times below what he's actually doing.

Calcing the KE as such, not only breaks the rules of KE =/= Visuals, but it's essentially admitting the calc is inflated.
GunshyFever said:
Considering that his initial speed is far slower than his speed during his journey past Japan, it is obvious that his K.E. would be weaker. How can you maintain the K.E. produced when you were moving at Mach 700+ if you are instead moving at a far lower speed, such as Mach 300+, which by right, would generate far less damage? That's how K.E. is determined in the first place, by speed and mass. How are you supposed to keep the same 7-B K.E. if you are not moving at the correct speeds to maintain it?
Click to expand...
He literally was? What are you talking about? He stands there, immediately hits dumb as shit speeds, then stops 1.5km away from Makima. And, again, don't matter, we see the destruction, that isn't tsar bomba lv of damage every instant. Hell it isn't even 7-C.
GunshyFever said:
Same goes for this as well. I understand that using the fact that his damage extended for kilometers was a bad example.
Click to expand...
Then what's the argument? At NO point does any movement of his even come within a magnitude of the calc, the damage we actually see him do, is magnitudes less. Ergo, his movement is what we see, as per KE rules.

Of course he has wacky pressure, but he was smashing buildings as well, and just stuff a few hundreds meters away at best was getting blown away, of course, but, what do you think the overpressure for a 7-B bomb would be? Shit would be blown away, kilometers from impact, yet GD ain't doing that either.
GunshyFever said:
However, I believe the argument that it is an outlier just isn't applicable. It's better to argue that the calc is wrong rather than argue that it's an outlier because by all means if it were just up to this, he would scale.
Click to expand...
Nobody said it was an outlier? The feat is just wrong because we see the actual energy his KE has, and it's 1000s below the calc.
 
Chariot190 said:
He literally was? What are you talking about? He stands there, immediately hits dumb as shit speeds, then stops 1.5km away from Makima. And, again, don't matter, we see the destruction, that isn't tsar bomba lv of damage every instant. Hell it isn't even 7-C.
Click to expand...
I was talking about when he was at full power, the 7-C feat. As for everything else, I can't necessarily argue against pixel scaling or things of that nature.
Chariot190 said:
Im busy calcing stuff so

Just put me disagree, breaks KE rules, for more info check last thread
Click to expand...
Counted.
 
GunshyFever said:
Introduction
A while back, I created this thread to bump all high-god tiers of the Chainsaw Man verse to City level+ to Mountain level. However, it was rejected based on two main points:

1. The destruction displayed by the Gun Devil indicates that KE-based calculations are not reliable.
2. This feat is considered an outlier.

Arguments
1. The first argument doesn't appear to be logical at all. Makima spots the Gun Devil at a distance of 500 km after it has been moving towards her for 1 second. The Gun Devil continues moving towards Makima for an additional 2 seconds before it stops and begins firing. The distance from the Gun Devil to Makima when it stops is 1.5 km (his maximum known range), which in turn is Massively Hypersonic. Considering his mass, this gives you his K.E. The problem raised by multiple CGM's is that the sequence of destruction does not align with 7-B K.E, which would vaporize everything without leaving anything behind. This is disingenuous because the author doesn't write his manga to validate calcs. Moreover, the scene was meant to portray the destruction and death of many innocent lives rather than the absolute destruction a being with 7-B K.E would cause.

2. This argument doesn't hold either. The Gun Devil is shown to be the strongest non-primal devil in the series, having feats that no low to mid-tier would scale to at all apart from Angel, which Makima needed to utilize 1000 years of lifespan to reach this level of AP using his weapons. His current highest feat was done when he was at full power, moving at mach 300+ and flattening multiple skyscrapers with his K.E. We were only shown a cropped portion of this damage, so the potential damage could extend for kilometers.

Mainly, this thread was created for other CGM's to lay their opinion on the matter.

Scaling
Scaling remains the same as the previous thread, which I will re-list here.

Note:
Fear Scaling: As Devils embodying the fear of a concept, the more feared they are, the more powerful they become even a relatively minor boost in fear can immensely boost a devil's overall strength and effects of their abilities, Due to this once a Devil is more feared than another Devil, their AP and Speed surpasses that said devil.

Characters who Upscale from the Gun Devil 100%'s AP to 100 Megatons (Mountain level)
Primordial Devils; These devils have been described as "transcendent" compared normal devils and have never experienced death before due to their immerse power, as they possess names that are feared by nearly every human on the Planet, eg; Falling and Darkness. They have been stated to be far stronger than the likes of "some Gun Devil", a weakened Falling Devil with just her appearance on earth caused gravity fluctuations all around the globe causing nations to suffer from damage and become immensely poorer

The Chainsaw Devil; Is known as the devil that devils fears the most which puts him at a comparable level to the Primordial Devils and far above the Gun Devil, Makima considered a proper fight with Pochita "unwinnable" and needed to resort to heavily depowering him, simultaneously fought both 4 Horsemen & the Weapon Devils while in Hell one of the four horsemen being the Death Devil whom is the strongest Devil with the name most feared of all, Makima planned to use the Chainsaw Devil's power to erase her from existence. Defeated devils that embodied concepts such as nuclear weapons, an in-universe volcano eruption and starlight that would break children's minds showing his extreme superiority to the Gun Devil

Characters who scale to the Gun Devil 100%'s AP
Makima: Makima is the Control Devil; (The devil that embodies the fear of loosing free will) her fear reaches a greater extent due to countries all around the world having fear for Makima and refused to stand in her way of bringing peace, due to this her AP would scale to 85.98 Megatons due to being able to draw blood from the Chainsaw Devil.

That's all.

Agree: (0:1) @FuriousFieryFist

Disagree: (0:0) @Chariot190

Neutral: (0:0)
Click to expand...
Disagree FRA
 
Chariot's points from the previous thread are still valid, the KE of the Gun Devil would be like a 1.6 Tsar Bombas going off everytime he collided with anything but all we're shown are collapsed buildings in the aftermath, this page implies that the Gun Devil is flying pretty low and not hundreds of meters in the sky too.
 
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