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Grey Hulk and Thing Revision

Well, Gilgamesh is fine, but the other Eternals are supposed to be "class 20" to "class 40" in terms of raw power. They have lots of versatility and are very hard to kill though.
 
Eternals aren't physically on par with most 4-Bs (Though I'd argue Ikaris is due to his showcase), but their eyebeams and hax have been able to contend with them decently enough IMO to warrant that rating, as Thena can reliably stab away Gilgamesh with weaponry and blast off groups of other Eternals with other hax, while Sersi's creations can contend with 4-Bs relatively easy.

I reckon I haven't put anyone at 4-B striking strength unreliably, except maybe Sersi, who should be unknown physically upon re examination
 
Antvasima said:
Again, for safety reasons, I think that only Marvel Comics characters that are consistently treated as equal or superior to other characters of higher tiers should scale to them. I know that this is stricter than for other fictions, but it is likely necessary in this case, due to that the setting does not work in a normal manner.
What do you think about this suggestion Matthew?
Click to expand...
I thought that this should already be the case.
 
I said I'd do this in the afternoon. But I've already had more than 8 hours sleep, so I'll just do it now. These are going to be fairly long posts.

Proxima Midnight/Corvus Glaive: These two characters are secondary antagonists who exist just to be moderate threats to anyone who isn't supremely overpowered. They're highly inconsistent, but not in the way regular Marvel characters are. One moment Corvus is more than capable of fighting lower-level 4-B characters, the next he's easily knocked out by Black Bolt and overpowered by an unnamed Inhuman (Note: The two feats here are from What Ifs that still share the exact same history to marvel up until this point). Same goes for Proxima, who's comparable to 4-Bs, but then gets outmatched by Luke Cage. Black Dwarf and Supergiant, who are portrayed as the power houses of the team, are similarly inconsistent, having fought on par with 5-A to 4-B beings like Super-Skrull, to getting outmatched by Black Panther and being obliterated by planet-destroying bombs.

Icema: Ymir is actually very, very powerful. Odin, Vili and Ve fought the frost giant in a fierce battle, eventually slaying him and using his body to form the Earth. In Avengers #61, the Sons of Satannish had to use the Crystal of Conquest, an artifact with the power of Satannish and Mephisto, to teleport Ymir to Earth. Ymir was also equal to Surtur here. In the Black Galaxy Saga, Ymir is a Raganarok, universal threat who fights Surtur again.
 
Iceman was empowered by the Casket of Ancient Winters.
 
I also think that Iceman defeating a being almost on a level with prime Surtur/Odin is an outlier.
 
This isn't his normal level, it's for his Casket of Ancient Winters key.
 
The Casket traditionally only demonstrated the ability to cause a global ice age, as far as I am aware, not compare with Multi-Universal entities. Please make an effort to not use your new staff position to push for exaggerated upgrades. It is very important that we try to be responsible and evenhanded.
 
That's completely irrelevant, Iceman was amped by it, he didn't absorb its full power or something like that. Also, it contains the sum of all cold and the Fimbulwinter of Ymir, which is the sign that Ragnarok is coming. The global ice age is just a byproduct.

I'm not making exaggerated upgrades. Also, none of this even prevents the fact that Iceman still defeated Ymir.
 
Well, it still seems like an unreliable outlier.
 
If I'm understanding well what's happening right now, most of the people doesn't agree with Wonder Man being 4-B, right? He's not 4-B because of his unability to measure up to the full strength of Hulk, Thor and others, but because he's scaled to Red She-Hulk because apparently he shouldn't be much weaker than her (something that in fact makes him the weakest 4-B of Marvel at the moment) but if such reasoning is a problem maybe is because... Have they fought at least once? I don't remember not even one ocassion. If in fact they haven't fought, then he's not 4-B at all.
 
Most people do agree with him being 4-B. It's pretty much exclusively Matthew that doesn't agree with it.
 
My bad. Not most of the people, but reading again it's not only Matthew who doesn't agree. Ant and Zark don't agree either
 
I don't think that Eficiente agrees either, if I remember correctly.

Anyway, somebody should really ask Kepekley23, Sera EX, and possibly Ultima Reality to help us out again.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, it still seems like an unreliable outlier.
Click to expand...
Turns out it was a shell of Ymir, which the profile doesn't even mention. The key should probably be removed or changed, considering this happened once and will probably never occur again.

@Daniel Zark also seems to agree with Solar System level Grey Hulk, but believes The Thing should not scale.

Eficiente said:
  • People here were still mentioning Hulk and others being 4-B even after it was said to be wrong, some with very insufficient evidence. The whole discussion is based on that now which has little to do with the Thing.
Click to expand...
I've addressed this, you're the one who still hasn't countered any points or given evidence. In fact, you haven't even really given evidence to support your claims in the first place. Also, even if this were true, The Thing still scales to Grey Hulk and Wonder Man.
 
I removed Iceman's Casket of Ancient Winters statistics, given that it was just one occasion and a massive outlier.
 
Also I gave 4-B feats of Amadeus Cho Hulk, who Thing equals, and all of them were done while calm, so the variable tier argument doesn't hold up that much.
 
4-B Grey Hulk is BS considering even his sole 5-A feat is a near outlier.

It absolutely holds, Tracr, it's the Hulk's whole thing.

Wonder Man shouldn't be 4-B anyway and he is one of the stronger characters.
 
Why exactly is it an outlier when (as shown in the OP), Grey Hulk has numerous feats that would compare him to 4-B beings.

Except I just explained why it doesn't, because Cho Hulk's 4-B feats were done while calm.

Several people have already explained why Wonder Man is absolutely 4-B.
 
@Matt That's BS. Other characters have been 4-B for less, you're just being needlessly picky (no offense). Also, if you read the chapter it wasn't even done with a lot of effort on the Hulk's part, and happened during the day.

You should re-read that chapter, there's a lot of references to other fights between Hulk and The Thing. He briefly struggled, but still proved vastly superior to the Hulk and absolutely stomped him. The Thing only lost because it was night time (when Grey Hulk's is stronger), Grey Hulk was using hit and run tactics, Ben was tired, and had been drowned to the point of unconsciousness, before this Fixit admitted to still being weaker.
 
The Thing was boosted beyond his normal level during the fight though.
 
That wasn't really the point, it's just that Grey Hulk somewhat fighting an amped The Thing isn't proof that the former is stronger, normally. Also, you yourself have supported this in the past via a statement that The Thing is stronger without even being amped.
 
Yes, that is true. The normal Thing is stronger than a calm Grey Hulk according to the handbooks.
 
ByAsura said:
@Matt That's BS. Other characters have been 4-B for less, you're just being needlessly picky (no offense). Also, if you read the chapter it wasn't even done with a lot of effort on the Hulk's part, and happened during the day.
Click to expand...
This just means they shouldn't be 4-B either.
 
LordTracer said:
Why exactly is it an outlier when (as shown in the OP), Grey Hulk has numerous feats that would compare him to 4-B beings.
Except I just explained why it doesn't, because Cho Hulk's 4-B feats were done while calm.

Several people have already explained why Wonder Man is absolutely 4-B.
Click to expand...
Cho's best feat when he is angry is cracking a moon. This whole "numerous feats" are BS and ignore context and the wider Marvel Universe.

Wonder Man isn't absolutely 4-B I haven't heard a single consistent argument for it.
 
You can't just call literally everything an outlier, especially when you haven't posted any scans in contention.
 
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