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Grey Hulk and Thing Revision

ByAsura

ByAsura

He/Him
VS Battles
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Currently the scaling for every single one of these 5-A characters is based entirely on Grey Hulk destroying an asteroid twice the size of the Earth, something that is commonly regarded as an outlier. The scaling is so interconnected that changing one character's rating would alter all the others.

Firstly, Grey Hulk is physically weaker than Green Hulk, but he's still got feats on par with the latter due to his ability to become stronger with rage. Also, in The Incredible Hulk (1968) #347-9, he was weakened due to a gamma bomb, his failing mental strength and constant sunlight, so getting outclassed by Spider-Man and the Absorbing Man doesn't scale to his normal level of strength.

Secondly Ego's explosion. There was no explosion or anything of the sort, Ego just broke up due to flying into the sun while heavily weakened. Even if it did somehow scale to The Thing's durability, the feat wouldn't be anywhere near Planet level because Ben doesn't have anywhere near the same surface area as Ego.

For: LordTracer, Hellbeast1, MJF6219, Peter "Quicksilver" Maximoff, Qawsedf234

Against: Eficiente, Matthew Schroeder, Antvasima

Classic Keys: SuperAPM, AbeLincoln1865
 
I definitely do not think that we should scale almost everybody to 4-B, simply because Marvel is very inconsistent in terms of matchups. Also, the Grey Hulk was later shown knocked out from the High Evolutionary's blast in his own book, if I remember correctly.
 
@Ant I don't think people like Cyclops should scale, just Grey Hulk, The Thing, Namor, Shuri, etc. I'd even be willing to compromise and say Large Planet level, possibly Solar System level. Also, getting knocked out by the same person who one-shot Thor isn't much of an anti-feat, and doesn't prove he's completely inferior.

"Inconsistency". That's a non-argument at this point. The Thing and Namor have fought 4-B characters on dozens of occasions, and Grey Hulk has more evidence to place him at this tier than 5-A feats.
 
Well, you should still ask the people that I mentioned above to comment first.
 
Would someone else mind contacting them? I'm busy until later today. Thanks in advance.
 
I've message Crimson Azoth, Eficiente, Qawsedf234, PrinceOfTheMorning and Ultima Reality about this thread.
 
I have the time to comment now. Thanks for asking those staff members.
 
Thank you, but somebody should ask the others as well.
 
I just realized this would scale to Doctor Doom, who has some 4-B showings of his own like fighting the Hulk, knowing some spells even Doctor Strange doesn't, etc.
 
Again, please contact these members. This is a significant change that would need their input, especially the first two in this case.

Nothing will happen here unless we get considerable input from knowledgeable members.
 
I've asked Matthew, Kepekley, Qawsedf and APM.

@Eficiente Why do you disagree?
 
Yeah, don't really agree with them being 4-B. The Thing supposedly has a moon level feat somewhere, but I can't seem to find it, so tracking that down would be incredibly helpful.
 
This yeah? "It is enough to cleave the mantle of a planet! To split it in twain!"

That is explicitly Multi-Continental, High 6-A
 
Its probably for the best that we scale off of that then. Given how extraordinarily close it is to 59.44 Zettatons and given the fact that Thing overpowered him, scaling them all to baseline 5-B is more than reasonable.
 
Why should that take precedence over scaling to the Hulk? It's still scaling from another character, who, again, hurt She-Hulk.
 
Hulk is extremely inconsistent for obvious reasons. It's better to scale off Marvel characters own feats than scaling to someone who's strength fluctuates greatly.
 
Characters like Thing and Colossus are most often depicted as being in a lower weight class compared to guys like Hulk or Thor. I know there are probably several instances of them supposedly fighting on par with the latter tier, but that's comics for ya. Its far safer to scale them from feats within their own tier, since that's we're they are most often depicted at.

Speaking of, She-Hulk needs to be given seperate keys. Her modern depiction is definately 4-B, being on par with Hulk directly now, but several decades ago she was only somewhat comparable to Carol Danvers, and only after years of training did she become as strong as the Thing.
 
The Thing isn't rated with his own feats, he's scaled to Umbra, Basilisk's Multi-Continent level feat and Grey Hulk. Also, he's fought the Silver Surfer and other 4-B characters, not just the Hulk, on so many occasions that this just becomes a non-argument.

Colossus is portrayed as being weaker than Hulk, but he's also extremely inconsistent and somewhat in the same league. Also, he's only ever matched The Thing twice, to my knowledge, and seems to far more consistently take hits from Cyclops and Sentinels.
 
SuperAPM is correct, and She-Hulk needs 3 different keys to avoid misunderstandings, yes.
 
To my recollection, outside of Hulk and Surfer (who was so inconsistant back in the early days that even guys like Vision could fight on par with him), most other bouts between him and other 4-B's most often lead to his defeat.
 
Yes, the Thing and Grey Hulk may be rated too high, not too low. They are not nearly in the same league as classic Thor and the Silver Surfer.
 
Uh, that second scan you gave had Surfer stating he wasn't strong enough to match Thing before amping himself, and Thing was holding back there, so...
 
@APM Like who? The Champion of the Universe? The same guy that has won against Silver Surfer level opponents. Also, he's fought the Hulk and a slightly weakened Red Hulk in modern times.

@Ant Personally, I don't believe he's Thor w/Mjolnir level. I'd say he's on par with a slightly enraged Hulk, who is often completely at Thor's mercy when he has Mjolnir.

@Abe That goes both ways; The Thing has also matched and surpassed the Silver Surfer. Plus, SS has to absorb energy to match The Thing's strength in your second scan.
 
Thing was depicted as significantly weaker than TCotU, as I recall he only won out through sheer perseverance, since TCotU new that Thing would never give up fighting unless he just killed him outright, and so threw the fight.
 
I will say one thing, apparently the Thing is supposed to have a star level feat somewhere, so perhaps its best we found that, find out if its legit, and then decide whether or not we should scale to that.
 
The Thing definitely was far weaker than the Champion, but he's not billions of times weaker, or anything. For reference, Colossus and Sasquach were obliterated with extreme ease, while Ben actually broke his ribs.

I'd actually be fine with a Star level rating, honestly. Though Namor is listed on his page as "possibly Solar System level", and he very consistently fights The Thing and Black Bolt, so it think they should get the same treatement.
 
Since it seems like She-Hulk is getting a Classic key and Modern key and considering that Captain Marvel already has a Classic and Modern key, it made me think that giving these 3 characters (Grey Hulk, Thing, and Namor) Classic and Modern Keys probably wouldn't be a bad idea. Since a lot of the instances where these 3 characters were consistently fighting against 4-B characters all the time seemed to be more 70s to 80s era Marvel, Where as these three characters fighting against 4-B characters doesn't seem to be nearly as consistent anymore.

So just throwing that idea out there, that maybe giving these characters Classic and Modern keys may be a possible solution. What do ya guys think?
 
ByAsura said:
I'd even be willing to compromise and say Large Planet level, possibly Solar System level.
Click to expand...
I'm good with that. I was okay with the Aquaman rework for a similar reason.
 
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