Grey Hulk and Thing Revision

[ByAsura]

That's what's already being suggested. Although, The Thing could also be 5-B, possibly 4-B from where this is going.

@Hellbeast In my opinion, 4-B with Spells is fine. He already has a magic-based forcefield feat in his durability section.

 

[LordTracer]

Yeah, we were going for 'At least 5-A, likely 4-B.'

 

[Hellbeast1]

@By sounds good

 

[ByAsura]

I've revised the justifications for The Thing.

Attack Potency: Planet level (Grossly overpowered Umbra, who was completely unharmed by solar fusio and casually shrugged off the Human Torch's nova flame), possibly Solar System level (Comparable to Namor and Wonder Ma, physically stronger than Grey Hulk. Has consistently competed with the Silver Surfer and Savage Hulk, although he is generally portrayed as largely inferior)

Durability: Planet level (Survived Galactus' blast, which was powerful enough to split a planet in two and cleave off its mantle), possibly Solar System level

 

[LordTracer]

Looks great, I would just suggest an 'At least' in front of Planet level though.

 

[ByAsura]

Both of those feats are Small Planet level and Small Planet level+ (90% baseline Planet level), respectively. Planet level is technically a high-end.

 

[LordTracer]

Human Torch's nova is just Planet level though, going by his profile.

 

[ByAsura]

That's his Supernova, which is far more powerful. His maximum nova, which seems to be used here, is Multi-Continent level according to the profile.

 

[StrongClick]

That dura scan is saying split/cleave the mantle, not the whole planet. Also I recall that umbra calc had to be re looked at from another thread.

 

[ByAsura]

Which is Small Planet level, as I explained. That whole thread was debunked and it mostly relied on the fact that it fused two beings to make Umbra, ignoring that armour is also designed to withstand solar fusion and he says the Human Torch's flames are nothing in comparison.

 

[LordTracer]

Hm, alright, '5-B, possibly 4-B' it is then.

 

[StrongClick]

You may be thinking of a different thread. There was much more wrong with it it looks like. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3549063?useskin=oasis

I think Crim will recalc it in the future anyways

 

[ByAsura]

That was the Ego feat, which I debunked as well.

 

[StrongClick]

Both feats were looked at by crimson if you look at the linked wall message thread

 

[ByAsura]

I took a look, and it's wrong. It's not based off the ejected mass from this Warworld, the feat occured in the sun, and the vortex has nothing to do with it.

 

[LordTracer]

What should Doctor Doom's new AP justifications be?

 

[ByAsura]

The same as before, but with possibly 4-B.

 

[LordTracer]

And also '4-B with spells?'

 

[ByAsura]

Yes.

 

[LordTracer]

Okay, cool.

 

[StrongClick]

I you sure your looking at the right thing Asura, ejected mass and the vortex are factors in the original calc.

 

[ByAsura]

Yes, but the ejected mass is not from Warworld. No, the very smallest part of the vortex is used to scale the mass ejected. The vortex itself was also visible from the sun, so it's very low-balled.

 

[StrongClick]

The narration says it's from warworld, the calc treats the smallest bit as earth sized when warworld is not that big. The vortex constriction isn't factored, the calc also makes it seem like Umbra is tanking the energy of the entire thing when that clearly isn't the case.

 

[ByAsura]

Turns out I was reading #298 instead of #297. The planet exploding was Warworld, but the mass ejection is based off a red giant, not the actual planet exploding. He does tank the full energy, and the entire point was that their armour is capable of absorbing and powering them with this energy.

 

[StrongClick]

Hmm, the calc acts like he's tanking all this energy at once. He can't be because they are in the eye of the vortex, it would be like being in the sun and saying you're tanking the entire star. He also isn't absorbing all that energy because if he was there would be no vortex. It would be like saying you absorbed all the energy of a bullet and then the bullet keeps going. Besides his suit overloaded.

 

[ByAsura]

It's not from the Vortex, it's the star sapper when Umbra blew out of the sun. Plus, Umbra did tank all of it when he was created, he says as much himself.

 

[StrongClick]

It overloads before the vortex forms. Where does he say he tanked all the energy?

 

[ByAsura]

I'm not talking about Jaguuar anymore, I'm talking about the fusion form of Umbra when he's blown out the sun. When he says specifically that his armour is designed to withstand star fusio and the nuclear fires of stars.

 

[StrongClick]

I only see issue with the calc, armor withstanding star/nuclear fusion and such is fine.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, in lack of better options, I suppose that we could upgrade them for the time being, for the sake of consistency, and then Matthew could downgrade them and several other 4-B characters later, after he has had the time to prepare a revision thread.

@Matthew

What do you think about this?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Well, in lack of better options, I suppose that we could upgrade them for the time being, for the sake of consistency, and then Matthew could downgrade them and several other 4-B characters later, after he has had the time to prepare a revision thread.

@Matthew
What do you think about this?

No. We should just downgrade them. We all know that the only thing that would come out of this is that they'd never be downgraded and the wank would just pile up on itself.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I do not mind, but you would have to make an effort to write a draft for how we should proceed with this.

I think that Eficiente has begun to work a bit in this direction in another thread: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3732814

 

[LordTracer]

I really don't think you can call it wank when you haven't shown any reason as to why it is.

 

[Antvasima]

Tracer, your relentless agenda to exaggerate our Marvel Comics profiles as much as possible may have started to turn into a problem. I would appreciate if you focus on some other fictions instead. It is very tiresome to deal with.

 

[LordTracer]

Excuse me, I am not trying to exaggerate anything. The simple fact of the matter is that there has been literally nothing shown in opposition to the likes of Thing and Grey Hulk being 4-B, and I have no intention of just sitting by quietly when you're attempting to downgrade them for no reason.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Tbh Ant you can't really call his beliefs an agenda when yall are literally trying to downgrade Marvel for no reason.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, from what I recall, he has been involved in several extremely tiresome arguments about upgrading Marvel characters to unreasonable degrees recently, but maybe I am mixing people up. My apologies in that case or if I overreacted.

I have likely had to deal with a few hundred threads that try to upgrade Marvel characters to unreasonable degrees, and that ignore the concepts of outliers and unreliable scaling chains, over the years, so in combination with that I am very stressed out and extremely overworked in general, they trigger high levels of annoyance in me at this point.

 

[LordTracer]

I have made several Marvel upgrade threads recently, yes, however every single one (apart from one) was considered to be perfectly fine so far.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, apart from the High 1-B Dormammu thread, weren't you involved in 2-A regular Doctor Doom and Captain Britain as well?

 

[LordTracer]

That was Hykuu's thread. And I don't recall ever giving support to base Doom being completely 2-A, I think I've made it clear in this thread that I think he should be '5-B, possibly 4-B. 4-B with spells' or something like that. Definitely not tier two.