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Grey Hulk and Thing Revision

I am leaning towards agreeing with Matthew though. Currently we give 4-B ratings for quite a lot of characters that do not ever display anything even approaching planetary power, which seems very unreliable.
 
The problem is more that we need to downgrade a lot of 4-B profiles, rather than get even more of them. I would appreciate if Matthew could come up with a plan for this. He can take input from Kepekley and Sera if he wishes.
 
 
Also there has still not been any actual scans posted that contradict Thing having a 4-B rating.
 
Also, for Wonder Man:

Anyway, for Wonder Man:

How he is 4-B is beyond me. Thor one-shot him multiple times, he got stomped by multiple versions of The Hulk and by Gladiator, and he struggles with Thing and Namor who aren't 4-B either.
 
I am chill, just restating the fact that there has been literally nothing posted that goes against Thing being 4-B. And you never responded to the last post I made when we were discussing said scans, so...
 
In almost every scan you posted that supposedly disproves Wonder Man being 4-B, he is still able to harm and somewhat contend with 4-Bs, which is exactly what his profile says where he isn't quite as strong as them but still comparable.
 
Who the hell cares. He lost. I guess Thanos is 2-C for hurting Odin slightly when they fought. That's how it works in comicbooks and the fact that WOnder Man is ultimately stomped means he doesn't scale.
 
That is not comparable in the slightest. Wonder Man consistently does this. Thanos does not. And I just gave numerous examples of him not getting stomped, so...
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Who the hell cares. He lost. I guess Thanos is 2-C for hurting Odin slightly when they fought. That's how it works in comicbooks and the fact that WOnder Man is ultimately stomped means he doesn't scale.
Click to expand...
That was one time tho iirc.

Derailing a thread with second unrelated topic is not preferable though.
 
Well, until some actual scans get posted that contradict it, I see no reason for Thing and Grey Hulk to not at the very least be 'At least 5-A, likely 4-B.'
 
LordTracer said:
That is not comparable in the slightest. Wonder Man consistently does this. Thanos does not. And I just gave numerous examples of him not getting stomped, so...
Click to expand...
He gets consistently beat up but it's easy to pick up single panels devoid of context and go "See, he's as strong as those guys!"
 
He is consistently shown to be close to them in strength, which even your scans showed. You even gave a scan where he was stated to equal Thor. There's more evidence towards him being comparable to the 4-Bs in strength as opposed to him being overwhelmingly weaker.
 
There is. Losing a fight =/= can't be comparable at all. That should be easy to understand.
 
Matt, you seem to think LordTracer is saying that they are stronger/as strong but that isnt his argument. He is stating that they are comparable,
 
Exactly. He's really damn close to them in strength, which was shown in almost every scan posted.
 
I felt like this was going nowhere so I made this

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3732814

2 things about it:

  • This was brought and had some acceptation before this thread was even a thing.
  • People here were still mentioning Hulk and others being 4-B even after it was said to be wrong, some with very insufficient evidence. The whole discussion is based on that now which has little to do with the Thing.
 
Le sigh, I'll just wait to see if any actual scans are brought to contradict Thing and Grey Hulk being 4-B.
 
He gets consistently beat up but it's easy to pick up single panels devoid of context and go "See, he's as strong as those guys!"

With all due respect Matt, context has been given for 90% of the examples given, and so far the counter argument are single responses with no depth
 
Antvasima said:
I think that Matthew makes sense.
Click to expand...
Even if he makes sense (and I do partially agree), he still has to provide actual evidence for his statements to back them up. Wonder Man is just one character after all.
 
For what reason should he be downgraded? He is still consistently shown to be almost as strong as the likes of Thor, Hercules, Ultron, etc. which has been shown. Why in the world should he not be 4-B? Him losing is not a proper reason.
 
True, but considering how many characters this effects, we still would need more context. Perhaps more people should be messaged?
 
Because as Matthew said, this is Marvel Comics, where logic is dead, and everybody can fight everybody.

Thanos can still inconvenience Odin and moderately fed Galactus in the same manner as Wonder Man can slightly inconvenience Thor, but we should still try to avoid long scaling chains that would severely inflate many of our character statistics.

As such, we should only scale characters that are consistently shown as equal or superior.
 
Well, that doesn't really address anything I said Ant. It still would require understanding what characters do and don't apply, so what I said still stands.
 
Thanos is not in a comparable situation to Wonder Man at all. In both cases with Odin and Galactus, Thanos is shown to be nothing more than an inconvenience (and in Odin's case, not even that). Wonder Man explicitly matches 4-Bs in combat on several occasions, far moreso than Thanos has with 2-Cs. He also has several statements that put him just barely beneath Thor. Wonder Man is consistently 4-B, and consistently shown to be comparable to the likes of Thor, Hercules, Hyperion, Ultron and more.
 
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