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Grappler Baki Discussion Thread 3

As far as Yujiro scaling, I never thought the statements were concrete enough to swap 7-C out for, as there are at least 3 calc’d feats for 7-C, whereas there’s only one calc’d feat for low 7-B as well as many statements from (unreliable) narrators, the 3rd person omniscient narrator, and narrative implications like all the major world leaders stockpiling nukes the day Yujiro was born. While I think the narrative implications do easily show that author intention is to have Yujiro be in the realm of nuclear weapons, I always though 7-C, possibly low 7-B would have been a better AP rating. 7-C via calc’d feats, with the potential to be low 7-B dude to heavy narrative implications.
 
Amlad22 said:
Calced feats put him in 8-A rather than 7-C tbh. There’s just the one 7-C earthquake feat.
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There’s also Baki’s Cockroach Tackle, which calc’s at 70 KT, as well as Yuichiro’s bombardment (technically a statement, but it gives us an actionable number like Nomi’s 100 metric ton grip)
 
BakiHanma18 said:
There’s also Baki’s Cockroach Tackle, which calc’s at 70 KT, as well as Yuichiro’s bombardment (technically a statement, but it gives us an actionable number like Nomi’s 100 metric ton grip)
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None of which are accepted here.


Also none of them consider the fact that he isn't tanking the entire blast due to his size in comparison to the blast. Also narrator statements aren't legitimate.
 
Yeah neither of those would be 7-C. At best Yuichiro’s would likely be 8-B if we say he tanked a direct blast.
 
LordGinSama said:
Also narrator statements aren't legitimate.
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I’m sorry, what? Narrator statements are literally the author speaking to the reader. If we’re dealing with a third person omniscient narrator (like the one in Baki), narrator statements are literally W.O.G.
 
BakiHanma18 said:
I’m sorry, what? Narrator statements are literally the author speaking to the reader. If we’re dealing with a third person omniscient narrator (like the one in Baki), narrator statements are literally W.O.G.
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That's actually completely false, the narrator isn't WoG unless directly specified or stated. We do not automatically assume that narrator statements are legitimate, we need to delve further into the context as opposed to taking them at face value.


We've had massive downgrades over this, such as the narrator stating Kaido to be the strongest creature in the world, to which we removed scaling to Zou for this very reason. Unless it's directly stated to be WoG we don't assume as such.
 
LordGinSama said:
We've had massive downgrades over this, such as the narrator stating Kaido to be the strongest creature in the world, to which we removed scaling to Zou for this very reason.
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That sounds more like hyperbole rather than any issue with taking a statement from a third person omniscient narrator who, by definition, knows everything within the story. That is the point of a third person omniscient narrator as a narrative device. The author is using a basic literary tool to make their intentions for the story known to the reader. This is clearly the case with Yujiro, as it’s stated by the narrator and characters within the story multiple times. Even if the argument of unreliable narrators was made for the characters within the story and their dialogue, the pattern is consistent regardless. Furthermore, Yujiro being a threat that requires nuclear response is literally the entire plot point of the chapter covering Yujiro’s birth, where every major world leader stockpiled nuclear weapons the day Yujiro was born because they got a bad feeling, even though none of them even knew Yujiro existed. The simple fact of the matter that all of these characters in this story are fictional creations created by Itagaki Keisuke to tell a story, and with the consistent statements from both characters within the story and an omniscient source of information as well as the narrative implications of an entire chapter, it would be ridiculous to outright deny a “possibly low 7-B” rating with no consideration. The standards set here are much too high, considering characters like Homelander and characters from JJK have similar ratings based off of single statements.
 
Homelander was given a likely higher rating for his statements about tanking nukes. That’s all that Yujiro should get as well.

Something like At least 8-A likely higher covers all bases. The 8-A has the concrete evidence of calced feats behind it, and the likely higher takes note of the narrator statements.
 
To be honest, I don't know why it couldn't. Being 7-C due to having one 7-C feat and other 8-A feats do not seem unlikely.
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There is 2 tiers of difference.
And Yujiro's best calced feat currently is 8-B. We still have to ask for a calc of the giga-punch.
 
Baki’s earthquake feat is 8-B+. He did this in base so anyone above base Baki by a considerable amount should upscale. This would easily include Yujiro with and without demon back.
 
I think I found a way to estimate the power of Katsumi's original mach fist.

Hanayama took damage from Katsumi's mach fist.

Hanayama tanked Spec's apnea rush without flinching, which is 8-C (Spec scales to 9-A because the calculation divides his power by 20 to get the output of one of his attacks, but his apnea rush itself is 8-C, Hana took as much damage as did the statue in the end).

So Katsumi's mach fist should be at least 8-C. And so should be Hanayama's dura.
Moreover it is logical, hanayama has always been the tankiest character of the whole series.
And I take the opportunity to say that his durability in Dou should be scaled to Musashi's AP.

If it doesn't work like that, let me know.
 
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Without armour and weapons I don’t think he ever does anything on the level of 8-B.

Sure he can take blows from Jack, but that’s with armour and the blows from Jack nearly killed him. In terms of attack potency he never hurts any big hitters without weapons either aside from a drop kick on Jack. Although I’d argue that’s an outlier since he says multiple times Jack far outclasses him physically.

I’m sure this could be debated though.
 
You can be outclassed physically and still hurt someone with a metal pipe. Motobe scaling to Jack is fine with weapons and armour.
 
Why aren't the arrow catch and Kaku's statement about hitless blow considered outliers?
Baki's cockroach speed was explicitely stated as 270.37 km/h, and the mach punch and all are still considered things because they hit at supersonic speed.

I sincerely don't get how they aren't all subsonic at best.
 
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CuddleFox said:
Why aren't the arrow catch and Kaku's statement about hitless blow considered outliers?
Baki's cockroach speed was explicitely stated as 270.37 km/h, and the mach punch and all are still considered things because they hit at supersonic speed.

I sincerely don't get how they aren't all subsonic at best.
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Cuddles that a dumb way to look at it. There are multiple feats in Baki that are in the Hypersonic+ to High hypersonic range that all scale to reaction speed. The CD is Specifically a travel speed feat that makes Baki moves fast. While the Mach punch was early on in Baki, characters have gotten faster since then.

I really hope your not actually trying to push these characters who have multiple feats into the subsonic range, because there will be push back.
 
There should be more distinctions in the pages then. Because it's really really confusing.
Hanayama is the only one that have that kind of distinction.

Cuddles that a dumb way to look at it.
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I don't get how, Itagaki's intention has always been of doing superhumans among superhumans and nothing more.
 
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CuddleFox said:
There should be more distinctions in the pages then. Because it's really really confusing.
Hanayama is the only one that have that kind of distinction.
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Tbh yeah it does, pages do need a clean up. Which I’m down to help .
CuddleFox said:
I don't get how, Itagaki's intention has always been of doing superhumans among superhumans and nothing more.
Click to expand...

Bruh cuddles what’s your definition of superhuman? These characters break literally any norm of superhuman feat. If it’s superhuman for a man to punch at supersonic speeds, what’s wrong for a different man in the same verse to punch at Hypersonic speeds. Both are superhuman but why should one of them be an outlier? And of course I have a problem when your suggesting that these characters don’t break subsonic, despite the fact that one of them has a move that makes there fist move at supersonic.

Superhuman characters don’t punch at the speed of sound, they don’t bench military helicopters, and don’t stop earthquakes with a single punch.
 
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Bruh cuddles what’s your definition of superhuman? These characters break literally any norm of superhuman feat. If it’s superhuman for a man to punch at supersonic speeds, what’s wrong for a different man in the same verse to punch at Hypersonic speeds. Both are superhuman but why should one of them be an outlier? And of course I have a problem when your suggesting that these characters don’t break subsonic, despite the fact that one of them has a move that makes there fist move at supersonic.
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After more than 100 volumes, during his fight with Baki, Itagaki still show Yujiro as being "impressive because he punch at supersonic speed" despite Katsumi being able to do it since the beginning.
Pickle and Musashi fighting only dented a steel wall despite them being comparable to Yujiro.

Tetsuo shima flies to the moon in a few seconds in Akira, the characters comment on how fast he goes like "oh shit he went to the moon that quick?": ok, get your Relativistic+ calc, why not?
Baki's characters go at supersonic speed with their fastest attacks, it's described as a good representation of a god tier's speed, but everyone scales on Kaku who claims to fight at Mach 80 or Musashi running at Mach 30 when it depends entirely on a sentence that could have been translated differently: outlier.
There is something pretty wtf about going to Yujiro's page and seeing "mf is High hypersonic+", that's all. It breaks by a wide margin what the manga itself say about them.

I have the feeling you got what I said by "superhuman". I have a problem with the fact they scale to things Itagaki clearly didn't planned as being THAT impressives, like the arrow catch, instead of the things he wants to show as impressive, like the supersonic punches. To me the first are outliers.
 
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What I’m getting is that you just have a problem that there no calc or link to the feat which is fair, and when the days over I’ll fix it Imao. But Cuddles there are multiple feats in the Hypersonic+ High Hypersonic range, you can’t just say “lol outliers”. Because how does Yujiro being High Hypersonic break anything? If you do make a CTR at least make it for the structure. These characters don’t cap at supersonic, nobody is going to agree with if you do make the CTR because if you can only answer the question I propose with “outlier”and “Well Itagaki meant this” then you failed.

Like I get where your coming from Imao. But remember this is Baki, this series has always been weird when it comes to feat it general.
 
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if you can only answer the question I propose with “outlier”and “Well Itagaki meant this” then you failed.
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Except it's directly stated in the manga. I'm not pulling it from nowhere. It's cristal clear that it's what Itagaki meant.
I've never been a fan of "calcs > depiction" anyway, it leads to things obviously ridiculous such as Pegasus seiya being Island level for breaking a hole 5 meters diameter because it got calced with atomization due to a simple statement and nothing else.

I don't plan on doing a CRT about that, I just wanted to have your feedbacks about it.

this series has always been weird when it comes to feat it general.
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More inconsistant than weird. Katsumi's description of the hitless blow add nothing to the Mach fist he had before, Kaku even said that breaking the sound barrier was what damaged Katsumi, not the hit itself.
I guess Itagaki just forgot Katsumi could already do that.
 
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It's starting to piss me off when people argue aggressively about something as light as character strength, are offended that the 6 sumos are ranked high when their only argument behind all their explanations is that they don't see them being that high. As much as it pisses me off to see people taking you for an idiot when you question that Spec is god-tier and think that powerscaling is for morons because it doesn't match their vision.

A few hours ago a guy told me that Doppo had low-diff taketsurugi and that it didn't count anyway because he "entered a brawl instead of doing karate", and that Baki wasn't stunned by Honoo's attack, but that he "just rested".

I wonder how you manage to stay on the subreddit. Debating who would win a fight there are 1/3 of the posts, and it's like talking about mathematics with children who just know their multiplication tables.
Like, it may be a light subject, it's nerve-wracking.
 
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People don’t like that Itagaki made sumo stronger. Idk why but they don’t. It’s pretty damn hard to argue with anyone who doesn’t want to accept that the rikishi are strong simply bc sumo shouldn’t be strong to them.
 
I think Itagaki wanted to make a statement about Sumo and how grand it is since the sport is dying in Japan. I've seen videos about how Sumo wrestlers actually make it professionally, and I can tell you 9/10 times it's not worth it. Only the top wrestlers are paid and even getting to the middle class is near impossible. You also have this social stigma about fat men pushing each other in diapers outside of Japan and it just cumulates into a steady decline in the sport.

There's no glory in Sumo, not like there used to be. And I think Itagaki knows this and wants to shed some light onto the sport any way he can. You can see how Nomu's motivatons aren't malicious. He wants to bring the glory back to Sumo. The wrestlers getting beaten up is a commentary on what a joke the sport has become.

If people actually cared a little more, the arc would seem less like hurr durr Sumo wrestlers stronger than MMA fighter, and more like a love letter to a sport that desperately needs more attention.
 
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