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Grappler Baki Discussion Thread 3
- Thread starter Oblivion_Of_The_Endless
- Start date
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Again, to be fair, it wasn't only fearful people who compared Yujiro's might to nuclear weaponry or the army. As I cited, "Chapter 297, pages 9-10, Yujiro himself stated that even the entire power of a state and of the army couldn't defeat or match him. Chapter 260, the narrator himself in pages 11-12 stated that the army couldn't match him, it also cited the state, but it felt more like Yujiro intimidated the heads of state. Chapter 263, page 5, the narrator again explicitly said that he was stronger than nuclear weapons, or at least explicitly stronger than a country that has the power and will to nuke a city."
One of those was made by Yujiro, which can be taken with a grain of salt? He's usually pretty honest about his own capabilities, but he may be not talking about tanking a nuke, just not being defeated by conventional, army measures. One of the narrator statements supports that at least a conventional army couldn't defeat him. The last feat, however, of ch. 263, was pretty explicit in that Yujiro was "stronger than" a country using a nuke on a town. Maybe I'll re-read my ole stuff to see if I'm missing context.
And if I'm not mistaken, Baki's shadow image of Yujiro doing the 8-B feat (Or at least it was 8-B, I may me misremembering) was explicitly stated being still far weaker than what Yujiro really was.
I also fully agree with the scaling rework. The only problem that is needed to tackle is something that Ovens mentioned that is true: Very few people scale to the god-tiers, the most notable being Yujiro. But a LOT of people scale to those that scaled to the god tiers.
One of those was made by Yujiro, which can be taken with a grain of salt? He's usually pretty honest about his own capabilities, but he may be not talking about tanking a nuke, just not being defeated by conventional, army measures. One of the narrator statements supports that at least a conventional army couldn't defeat him. The last feat, however, of ch. 263, was pretty explicit in that Yujiro was "stronger than" a country using a nuke on a town. Maybe I'll re-read my ole stuff to see if I'm missing context.
And if I'm not mistaken, Baki's shadow image of Yujiro doing the 8-B feat (Or at least it was 8-B, I may me misremembering) was explicitly stated being still far weaker than what Yujiro really was.
I also fully agree with the scaling rework. The only problem that is needed to tackle is something that Ovens mentioned that is true: Very few people scale to the god-tiers, the most notable being Yujiro. But a LOT of people scale to those that scaled to the god tiers.
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I leave for a bit and come back to a war
I love VBW lmao
I love VBW lmao
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There is some room of interpretation, as Yujiro stated that the power of an army couldn't match his - it doesn't exactly imply that a nuke can detonate right under him and he'll be fine. It is possible that even a nuke is weaker than him, but it is also possible that he just can't be defeated by an army, which, to be fair, a 7-C to 8-A character moving at the speed he moves and with the combat abilities he has really couldn't. Even if somehow a nuke could hit and kill him, and even if a nuke was launched on his position, he'd likely just see/feel it and far outrun the blast. The one about chapter 263 is pretty explicit though.
The most important issue might be to see how to re-scale people. Again, very few people scale to Yujiro. Kaku, Baki and Musashi certainly do (Even if Kaku only scales to base Yujiro), Pickle probably does (I was always a bit skeptical about Pickle. I know Kaku preferred to cheat out of a fight with him by feigning death, but considering how Shaori works, it probably wouldn't work against Pickle style of attacking even if he was far weaker, as Pickle likes to bite, claw and crush).
But a LOT of people scale to Baki, Musashi and Pickle. Musashi is the most remarkable, in that he is a bit misleading; it is easy to justify people much lower on Baki's food chain wounding him seriously with their stirkes as him being more fragile, which is fair, but also forgets to consider that Musashi has endured strikes from Yujiro as well. I could make a whole list of people that can keep up with Baki, Musashi and Pickle, significantly wounding them and all, but can't, or at least not well, against Yujiro, which all those people can do well.
The most important issue might be to see how to re-scale people. Again, very few people scale to Yujiro. Kaku, Baki and Musashi certainly do (Even if Kaku only scales to base Yujiro), Pickle probably does (I was always a bit skeptical about Pickle. I know Kaku preferred to cheat out of a fight with him by feigning death, but considering how Shaori works, it probably wouldn't work against Pickle style of attacking even if he was far weaker, as Pickle likes to bite, claw and crush).
But a LOT of people scale to Baki, Musashi and Pickle. Musashi is the most remarkable, in that he is a bit misleading; it is easy to justify people much lower on Baki's food chain wounding him seriously with their stirkes as him being more fragile, which is fair, but also forgets to consider that Musashi has endured strikes from Yujiro as well. I could make a whole list of people that can keep up with Baki, Musashi and Pickle, significantly wounding them and all, but can't, or at least not well, against Yujiro, which all those people can do well.
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Damn we really went back to low 7-b being good to use lol
But for real those I apologize for the scaling hit storm guys. I promise I’ll find a better way to scale these characters to there respected tiers
But for real those I apologize for the scaling hit storm guys. I promise I’ll find a better way to scale these characters to there respected tiers
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It's still open for debate, of course, but it isn't as clear-cut as stating that only wary or overhyping people talk about it. Yujiro did once, and the narration did twice, one of those two being very explicit.
Also, a question: How's speed in Baki? I feel like there are more feats and context but...
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Venom I remember once that you brought up an feat that Musashi had going Mach 90? Is there anything for it?
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Eh, it was the feat that he dashed at 0,0000x (not the exact amount of zeros) of a second. I calculated it as if it ended in 1, the currently accepted result cosidered 9, as it was the safest and minimal one.
Still, there was that one feat of Yujiro that he let a man let loose the string of a gigantic bow, but before the arrow could even start leaving the string, and with Yujiro moving only after the string was released, he dashed and intercepted the arrow, even calling it way too slow.
Still, there was that one feat of Yujiro that he let a man let loose the string of a gigantic bow, but before the arrow could even start leaving the string, and with Yujiro moving only after the string was released, he dashed and intercepted the arrow, even calling it way too slow.
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And yet none of this implies that he's above nukes, nukes aren't something that used by the army or state. That's something that has to be done by the president and then needs to be verified by the secretary of defense. That's not a standard protocol, unless Yujiro directly cites "The strongest weapon used by mankind." or outright "nukes" then we can't assume so.
We don't take statements from the narrator as something legitimate, that's not a valid source of information. For example, Kaido's title of the World's Strongest creature was removed because it came from the narrator, someone who doesn't have any real say when it comes to accurately gauging one's strength. And even if we did, that's just the Army. The Army doesn't use nukes, and the army isn't a special ops unit either. Nothing they have comes close to be tier 7.
Hyperbole, first things first is that there's no country willing to "nuke a town just to kill you." and secondly none of that implies a point blank blast, Yujiro himself would only be exposed to a small portion of the blast. And that's only if we take it at face value, which i see no reason to considering narrator statements aren't valid.
Yeah and fortunately dropping nukes isn't a typical army measure. The Army doesn't conduct nuclear deployments, the Army is the ground troops unit.
Read above.
"Stronger than a country using a nuke on a town" =/= "Stronger than the nuke employed by the country."
The same 8-B attack that hurt Baki? 8-B isn't supportive evidence for 7-B anyway.
They end up indirectly scaling to Yujiro's feat one way or another at the end of the day.
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Yeah, I mostly agree with him too, while it isn't impossible to scale Yujiro to a nuke, it would be too specific and hype-ish.
I do however need to point out that:
Also, just to confirm it, in the wiki we do not consider statements of surviving a nuke as 7-B if all there is to the statement/feat is it saying that they can survive it, right? Because if so, I ought to look up some profiles that do rank characters based on that.
I do however need to point out that:
The narrator, at least to a certain point, needs to be valid, otherwise any narrated sequence that isn't explicit can't be measured. A character that is said by the narrator to go over the speed of sound wouldn't be.
It was an hypothetic scenario. If it was the point, it doesn't matter if said object of analysis is true or not. (For example, if a feat says that a character could survive, say, being rammed by an elephant that weighs the same as a mountain, it doesn't matter that an elephant IRL can't weigh that, the feat is hypothetical, it is still valid as long as there is basis for that. Not saying Yujiro does have a basis, but hypothetical feats can be valid)
Also, just to confirm it, in the wiki we do not consider statements of surviving a nuke as 7-B if all there is to the statement/feat is it saying that they can survive it, right? Because if so, I ought to look up some profiles that do rank characters based on that.
Not questioning that. I'm commenting that Yujiro is way above that feat, and during the fight with Yujiro, Baki tanked Yujiro going at full power.
Yeah. That somehow feels wrong, considering how Yujiro treats most of the cast, but I can't think of a much better solution without assuming a lot.
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Also flat out saying it here, pretty sure soloing the US army is like 8-B at best going by a few profiles that use such as their basis.
No that's not necessarily true either, there is of course a difference between narrations, from time to time we have narrators that are directly talking from the authors perspective, while in other cases it's meant to serve as a form of hype. It's a case by case basis and there's no reason to consider the narration here being the author talking to us directly.
Context matters which is something you seem to fail to understand. And also that example depends entirely on the anatomy of the elephant in question and if it even visually represents something around that size. I don't see the point in this post.
That depends on the distance of the character, where they are and how big they are. Those characters who have theirs ranked upon surviving a nuke is due to them being at the epicenter of the blast itself. I.E right on top of them.
I wouldn't say tanked, Yujiro’s attacks dealt pretty heft damage to Baki, not enough to put him down but to day "tank." is definitely overselling it.
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I'm genuinely curious why that'd be. I don't doubt it, it's just that it can be a feat for anything. I can see someone that is 9-B at most but going much faster being able to solo the Army.
Fair.
I understand. My point is that making a feat invalid because it is hypothetical/nothing in real life works like that isn't a good reason to.
Yeah, that's pretty much it. I've seen profiles that scale people to things such as nukes by generic statements without further context such as "surviving a nuke", but it's good to see that it isn't applicable as is.
Yujiro exchanged blows with him pretty equally, though. Initially Yujiro was dominating Baki and indeed wounding him seriously with each strike of his, but as the fight went, Baki managed to take several of his blows head-on pretty well. Case in point, Yujiro using Yuichiro's nunchaku technique on Baki, and Baki tanking it very well.
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So, so far, who is for what tier?
Tier 8-B / 8-A
Me
@LordGinSama
@Amlad22
Tier Low 7-B
@EliminatorVenom
@NotoriouSoda
Is that it?
Tier 8-B / 8-A
Me
@LordGinSama
@Amlad22
Tier Low 7-B
@EliminatorVenom
@NotoriouSoda
Is that it?
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Low 7-B is factually incorrect as it requires many assumptions that we can't assume due to the statements being vague. Soloing armies and such aren't 7-B and the Nuke statements either come from people who aren't knowledgeable or come from a narrator which aren't legitimate, and the rest don't say point blank.
So instead of that I'd replaced Low 7-B with Low 7-C to 7-C.
So instead of that I'd replaced Low 7-B with Low 7-C to 7-C.
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Also while not Baki news I know a lot of you are Kengan fans so I have very unfortunate news regarding Kengan.
Starting today Kengan Ashura and Omega will no longer be available in quality English scans until an official one is released. The company responsible for keeping up with the translations made an announcement that they'll stop producing translations and will shortly remove the current translations for Ashura and Omega off of various websites. So until we get official translations we're stuck with fan made translations or the RAWS.
Starting today Kengan Ashura and Omega will no longer be available in quality English scans until an official one is released. The company responsible for keeping up with the translations made an announcement that they'll stop producing translations and will shortly remove the current translations for Ashura and Omega off of various websites. So until we get official translations we're stuck with fan made translations or the RAWS.
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Nope, I agree on bumping down to 7-C/Low 7-C as it is a much more safe place for them to be, in regards of consistency.
Also, that's a shame about Kengan :c
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Wait why tho?
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Also yeah if it’s going back to 7-C it’s all good
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Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me but the company is trying to push for Kengan to get official English translations, and by doing this they assume it'll get the attention it needs to get an official release.
Pretty stupid if you ask me.
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****
As much as I love Baki those fan translation were amazing for Kengan. But from what I remember doesn’t the profiles for Kengan need there speed to be downgraded?
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Low 7-C is fine for the earthquake feat but tier 8 is a lot more consistent as Yujiro doesn't showcase feats on this level again in the series, unless the Giga Punch is also 7-C but just by eyeballing it the yield is probably 8-B / 8-A.
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Eh it was sir ovens that said it. However I’m fine with it being 7-C again
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Also, I didn't get enough responses about this.
I got this calc accepted.
Do you think Baki deserve to go 9-C and 9-B post ando's training given that he's supposed to be weaker than him at this point?
I got this calc accepted.
Do you think Baki deserve to go 9-C and 9-B post ando's training given that he's supposed to be weaker than him at this point?
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Yeah I think if we can get a calc on the giga punch we’ll have a good idea of how to move forward.
Also Baki at the start of the series was defiantly 9-C. Maybe 9-C+ if there’s feats but I’m not sure. Regular gang members could take his blows and he lost to said gang members when they came at him with weapons and in a group. He doesn’t get to 9-B until his training with Ando and he skyrockets pretty quickly after his fight with Yasha Sr.
Also Baki at the start of the series was defiantly 9-C. Maybe 9-C+ if there’s feats but I’m not sure. Regular gang members could take his blows and he lost to said gang members when they came at him with weapons and in a group. He doesn’t get to 9-B until his training with Ando and he skyrockets pretty quickly after his fight with Yasha Sr.
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Unless Baki endured a strike from Ando using an axe then he should've scale to the tree feat.
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Eh, I'd put "at least 9-C+", as being impressed does not outright mean you can't do that. I'd by impressed by a very seemingly-frail person punching as hard as my boxing teacher in the gym. It opens a good margin for Baki not being able to replicate the feat, but it doesn't outright mean he can't do so.
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yeee
