Gotta Revise 'Em All, Part 1: Splitting the Pokemon Canons (Massive Pokemon CRT)

[StrymULTRA]

If we’re going to consider the descriptions important, then a description confirming the obvious (that they’re marketing gimmicks) is equally important.

I talked about artwork my guy. In one of my recent replies. All of them are with the Pokemon given going literally from the movie screen to the console. I'd suggest you to read said reply then answer that.

 

[Ayewale]

Also, @StrymULTRA the burden is on you to go through the thread’s arguments, not to force everyone to repeat themselves ad infinitum because you didn’t go through any of it. You can’t really demand that people read a long blog and then refuse to read a long CRT.

 

[Pikaman]

Can you guys kindly tell why events are invalid, when literal artworks and descriptions confirm that is literally the same Pokémon?

I mean my memory is foggy on it so could be wrong but wasn’t Ash-Greninja an event? In the anime that explicitly requires Ash afaik but any old trainer can unlock the exact same form in game

 

[StrymULTRA]

Also, @StrymULTRA the burden is on you to go through the thread’s arguments, not to force everyone to repeat themselves ad infinitum because you didn’t go through any of it. You can’t really demand that people read a long blog and then refuse to read a long CRT.

Fine.

Here is it. Now read and check.

I mean my memory is foggy on it so could be wrong but wasn’t Ash-Greninja an event? In the anime that explicitly requires Ash afaik but any old trainer can unlock the exact same form in game

You get it only in Gen 7 games from transferring it from Sun/Moon Demo. A bit like the Mega Glalie you get through ORAS demo.

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

Fine.

Here is it. Now read and check.

Yeah, ngl to you, nothing of what you have say convince me, it just seem like the typical gimmick to gain money thanks to marketing, so sorry but I'm still against treating the events as part of the canon, still voting on favor of OP.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I mean my memory is foggy on it so could be wrong but wasn’t Ash-Greninja an event? In the anime that explicitly requires Ash afaik but any old trainer can unlock the exact same form in game

Oh yeah, is literally Ash's the one you get.

Yeah, ngl to you, nothing of what you have say convince me, it just seem like the typical gimmick to gain money thanks to marketing, so sorry but I'm still against treating the events as part of the canon, still voting on favor of OP.

So literally artwork showing from where the mon comes is not a proof? I mean, what exactly would be the proof then for you? It literally shows from where it comes on-screen

 

[Pikaman]

Oh yeah, is literally Ash's the one you get.

Doesn’t the form change still require Ash himself? Another Game-Anime difference

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Can you guys kindly tell why events are invalid, when literal artworks and descriptions confirm that is literally the same Pokémon?

Artworks, my guy?... Are you serious? No, they don't prove anything, why would they?

You can elaborate on descriptions if they hold any weight. Of course, sharing the same descriptions among two media does nothing to support they are part of the Canon Multiverse.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Doesn’t the form change still require Ash himself? Another Game-Anime difference

Nah, that's mostly Mandela Effect.

Is just a form Greninja got from his bond from Ash, nothing else.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Artworks, my guy?... Are you serious? No, they don't prove anything, why would they?

Considering they're made from the same company who gives those, yes, discarding them would be extremely dishonest and is the same as discarding panels for feats.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Considering they're made from the same company who gives those, yes, discarding them would be extremely dishonest and is the same as discarding panels for feats.

So what?
"This person makes art for the games, and also does them for the anime, thus, anime and games are part of the same canon".
If you don't realize the leap in logic here, I'm concerned for you. No, artworks from a consistent source does not attempt to address or support your point. It's null.

 

[StrymULTRA]

So what?
"This person makes art for the games, and also does them for the anime, thus, anime and games are part of the same canon".
If you don't realize the leap in logic here, I'm concerned for you. No, artworks from a consistent source does not attempt to address or support your point. It's null.

It literally gives explicit info about how the Pokemon goes in the cartridge lmfao.

And I'll believe that regardless of what you say. Then if this wiki still rejects it, then I'll be disappointed from this place even more lol.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

So what?
"This person makes art for the games, and also does them for the anime, thus, anime and games are part of the same canon".
If you don't realize the leap in logic here, I'm concerned for you. No, artworks from a consistent source does not attempt to address or support your point. It's null.

He means artwork showing the Pkmn coming from the movie into the game itself

Although, at least to me, that's just a cute way of expressing the "crossover"

 

[Sniper670]

So what?
"This person makes art for the games, and also does them for the anime, thus, anime and games are part of the same canon".
If you don't realize the leap in logic here, I'm concerned for you. No, artworks from a consistent source does not attempt to address or support your point. It's null.

Rei(Main Protagonist of PLA) is in the anime.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

It literally gives explicit info about how the Pokemon goes in the cartridge lmfao.

And I'll believe that regardless of what you say. Then if this wiki still rejects it, then I'll be disappointed from this place even more lol.

On my way to cross-scale Dragon Quest to Dragon Ball Z because both artworks are made by Toriyama:

Obviously this is just an oversimplification of your point for a harmless joke, but, please elaborate. I don't think you're just saying "The art has the same source thus canon".

It literally gives explicit info about how the Pokemon goes in the cartridge lmfao.

On this specifically. What do you mean?

 

[StrymULTRA]

On this specifically. What do you mean?

Everytime a Movie is released, there's the Event of the Legendary which is the protagonist being released, and along with the code given to get there's an art of the Legendary you get which flies from the screen of the movie right to the DS/3DS.

It happens literally every single time lol.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Rei(Main Protagonist of PLA) is in the anime.

Cool, he has an Anime version. That's nice.

He means artwork showing the Pkmn coming from the movie into the game itself

Although, at least to me, that's just a cute way of expressing the "crossover"

Ah, I see. We're using marketing as evidence for established canon.

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

Rei(Main Protagonist of PLA) is in the anime.

And what? Dawn is one of the protagonist in the games and she appears in the anime too, with aa totally different personality, backstory and objectives, that point is null as hell.
That just mean that he has an anime version now, it still doesn't mean that Anime and games are connected.
Still voting for OP point.

 

[Agnaa]

Everytime a Movie is released, there's the Event of the Legendary which is the protagonist being released, and along with the code given to get there's an art of the Legendary you get which flies from the screen of the movie right to the DS/3DS.

It happens literally every single time lol.

Are you saying that Pokemon games exist in the Pokemon universe, and that Arceus can turn itself into a fictional being to inhabit handheld systems?

If so, why would these literal fictional video games scale to the real characters?

Otherwise, I can't see how it's even meant to establish a canon, it is so cartoonishly meta that it can't really be squeezed into a realistic interpretation.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Cool, he has an Anime version. That's nice.

Ah, I see. We're using marketing as evidence for established canon.

Essentially

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Everytime a Movie is released, there's the Event of the Legendary which is the protagonist being released, and along with the code given to get there's an art of the Legendary you get which flies from the screen of the movie right to the DS/3DS.

It happens literally every single time lol.

My guy... That's marketing. Why would this cute interaction be an intentional attempt to convey information about how the two worlds interact?
At least give us the fact that this is something minor.

 

[Ayewale]

This blog is not the hill you want to die on, dude

0.5: I find it funny how you call the CRT an abomination but then skip several hundreds of posts of explanations and say that I’m correct about the trainer stuff (which is half of the CRT) anyways.

1. You didn’t really go over the arguments about Deoxys because you ignored all of the discussion around it’s movie powers. In your original post, you said that people who fail to read that blog would have their counter arguments be completely useless. By your own standards, all your points are automatically worth nothing. There’s an argument to be made that intentionally admitting that you ignored 500+ posts makes your vote very questionable but eh.
2. “Maybe I didn’t say anything different from Kukui or Executor so they’re right”. No, you didn’t read any of it, so you wouldn’t know whether they’re right or wrong, or whether my counterpoints were right or wrong. Read the CRT. Otherwise, “your counterpoint is null”.
3. Of course they’re taking about the same character, that doesn’t mean these appearances share a canon. Refer back to my Ben 10 example that you did not debunk or dismiss.
4. “…if you do not read the blog, your counterpoints are effectively null.”
5. Pokémon standards on quality control and observing artistic standards are not especially strict between media franchises; LOTR is the primary example. I’ve said this several times already but for your benefit, there is an entire legal body dedicated to making sure Tolkien‘s works are adapted properly, and Christopher Tolkien (his son) personally authorized everything LOTR with his dying ******* breath. Yet this artistic control does not make them, or any other verse, canon.
   
   
6. “Says who?” Wiki policy? We consider adaptations of official works tertiary canon at best and that is when the work is specifically written by the same people. So unless they are written by the same folk, it’s not canon at all.

 

[Sniper670]

Cool, he has an Anime version. That's nice.

Not enough?

Pokémon Masters exists and has been confirmed canon, with Ash and All characters being included

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Not enough?

Pokémon Masters exists and has been confirmed canon, with Ash and All characters being included

It's a one-way canon, no?
The games are canon to Masters, but not vice versa? Given how some interactions are straight up impossible since it takes characters from a specific period of their journey, thus removing them from their respective universe.

 

[Sniper670]

It's a one-way canon, no?
The games are canon to Masters, but not vice versa? Given how some interactions are straight up impossible since it takes characters from a specific period of their journey, thus removing them from their respective universe.

Again. It exists in the same universe at worst. They're all in the same universe.

Other regions are directly mentioned in the series so no, they don't take them away from anything.

 

[StrymULTRA]

"Marketing"

Lmfao. Then I guess Masuda's words are also "marketing".

Are you saying that Pokemon games exist in the Pokemon universe, and that Arceus can turn itself into a fictional being to inhabit handheld systems?

Tf...

You didn’t really go over the arguments about Deoxys because you ignored all of the discussion around it’s movie powers. In your original post, you said that people who fail to read that blog would have their counter arguments be completely useless. By your own standards, all your points are automatically worth nothing. There’s an argument to be made that intentionally admitting that you ignored 500+ posts makes your vote very questionable but eh.

So Game Arceus can't change types at will despite PLA debunks it. Ok.

“Maybe I didn’t say anything different from Kukui or Executor so they’re right”. No, you didn’t read any of it, so you wouldn’t know whether they’re right or wrong, or whether my counterpoints were right or wrong. Read the CRT. Otherwise, “your counterpoint is null”.

I have a life, you know. You can simply link where your arguments are and make it simpler.

Pokémon standards on quality control and observing artistic standards are not especially strict between media franchises; LOTR is the primary example. I’ve said this several times already but for your benefit, there is an entire legal body dedicated to making sure Tolkien‘s works are adapted properly, and Christopher Tolkien (his son) personally authorized everything LOTR with his dying ******* breath. Yet this artistic control does not make them, or any other verse, canon.

LOTR doesn't have the same policy of Pokemon, nor Masuda's statement.

 

[Sniper670]

Non-canon crossovers do not officially take place within any of the involved continuities. Examples may include Marvel Vs Capcom, Mortal Kombat Vs DC Universe, or the Dragon Ball/One Piece/Toriko special episode. Given the multiple inconsistencies and lack of canonicity to their original source materials, using these crossovers to scale to canon or canon feats to scale to non-canon original characters is forbidden. Exceptions are that original characters may scale to their own feats or feats seen in the crossover. For example, Dark Kahn has a legitimate 2-C feat, but it does not scale to anyone but him.

This is not what happens with Masters. It's the same universe, using the same regions

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Again. It exists in the same universe at worst. They're all in the same universe.

Other regions are directly mentioned in the series so no, they don't take them away from anything.

It's quite literally impossible for Anime and Games to share the same Universe, I believe this has been established.

"Marketing"

Lmfao. Then I guess Masuda's words are also "marketing".

Could you quote Masuda, please? His words might just be victim of DoTA

 

[Sniper670]

It's quite literally impossible for Anime and Games to share the same Universe, I believe this has been established.

Says you?
1. I showed you Rei existing in anime you said nah
2. Anime Jessie and James exist in Go, which has a direct connection to core series. Pokémon Go being a canon game.


Why is it impossible for them to share the same Multiverse?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Could you quote Masuda, please? His words might just be victim of DoTA

Masuda: It starts to get a little complicated if you pay too much attention to timelines. Like, there might be a professor that appears and it wouldn’t make sense at all if we applied that kind of timeline logic. So we try not to apply it too rigorously. Maybe one hint is that if a character is appearing with Professor Oak, they’re living in the same era. Rather than some series where it makes sense to have the timeline progress as you go and the story evolve, the approach that Pokémon takes is expanding the world, like what the regions are, and making it richer as we go. Rather than a timeline, it’s more of a physical space thing.

 

[Sniper670]

Are you saying that Pokemon games exist in the Pokemon universe, and that Arceus can turn itself into a fictional being to inhabit handheld systems?

Moot. The beginning of Pokémon Omega Ruby starts with the player playing Ruby

 

[TMaakkonen]

This is a very heated topic, so I might have missed it, but isn't Ash-Greninja's Battle Bond mechanics quite different between games & anime? You need to KO opponent in games, but in anime that wasn't a requirement?

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

Again. It exists in the same universe at worst. They're all in the same universe.

Other regions are directly mentioned in the series so no, they don't take them away from anything.

It still not a canon game, you have Red, who look like his 14 years old version hanging out with Selene, a character that is supposed to be 11 years old when Red is a full grown adult, but she's still 11 years old in Masters, the game is just a gacha full of fanservice with a ****** up chronology. None of y'all arguments are convincing me, still voting at favor of OP.

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

This is a very heated topic, so I might have missed it, but isn't Ash-Greninja's Battle Bond mechanics quite different between games & anime? You need to KO opponent in games, but in anime that wasn't a requirement?

And it wasn't also say that only Ash can use this form? That would mean that the games are straight up ignoring everything in the Anime canon (like the Anime ignoring the games canon too...)

 

[Sniper670]

It still not a canon game,

Says you?

you have Red, who look like his 14 years old version hanging out with Selene, a character that is supposed to be 11 years old when Red is a full grown adult, but she's still 11 years old in Masters, the game is just a gacha full of fanservice with a ****** up chronology. None of y'all arguments are convincing me, still voting at favor of OP.

Nah this is bull. Y'all entire argument is "I can't believe". Because your opinion supercedes TPC?

Pokemon.com: How do you flesh out characters who have had minimal screen time in the Pokémon RPGs? Did you work with people at The Pokémon Company to make sure your new details were in canon?

Mr. Sasaki: We have worked with The Pokémon Company closely on details in the game, and they have of course checked our new details to make sure they fit in the world of Pokémon. One of the major new features of this game—and the content that we want to highlight—is the interaction between various Trainers. Players will be able to enjoy new and exciting interactions between Trainers who may not have interacted before

Pokémon has shown that two contradictory worlds can exist. Mega timeline and Non Mega timeline

Pokémon Go breaks literally all the rules of mainline games and more. Yet it still exists and is equally canon

Its literally you vs TPC


"I can't believe.... " holds no water

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

Masuda: It starts to get a little complicated if you pay too much attention to timelines. Like, there might be a professor that appears and it wouldn’t make sense at all if we applied that kind of timeline logic. So we try not to apply it too rigorously. Maybe one hint is that if a character is appearing with Professor Oak, they’re living in the same era. Rather than some series where it makes sense to have the timeline progress as you go and the story evolve, the approach that Pokémon takes is expanding the world, like what the regions are, and making it richer as we go. Rather than a timeline, it’s more of a physical space thing.

That's all? That is your great argument/source? Nothing on that bunch of words supports anything of what you have saying, it's just saying that the timeline is complicated as shit, there's basically zero evidence of anything referring to events in that article, you have officially lose me in the absolute.

 

[StrymULTRA]

That's all? That is your great argument/source? Nothing on that bunch of words supports anything of what you have saying, it's just saying that the timeline is complicated as shit, there's basically zero evidence of anything referring to events in that article, you have officially lose me in the absolute.

Is saying that the materials don't follow the same timeline but rather expand the same concept that is the pokemon world in the same way. Kek.

 

[Sniper670]

That's all? That is your great argument/source? Nothing on that bunch of words supports anything of what you have saying, it's just saying that the timeline is complicated as shit, there's basically zero evidence of anything referring to events in that article, you have officially lose me in the absolute.

WE'VE shown proof after proof and all your argument is "Is that all? ", and "I can't believe"

Multiple Connections, and all you do is stay in disbelief.

 

[Ayewale]

I have a life, you know. You can simply link where your arguments are and make it simpler.

About the reasons why I agree with the cross-scaling, I'd like to first make YOU ALL READ THE FOLLOWING BLOG. IS NOT FROM EXECUTORN0, but from an off-site source which tells all the possible links between the various medias. Before addressing my points, you all should read this blog, otherwise is literally just ignoring really important points for the sake of your views. If you don't read this, the counter-point is essentially null.

You're changing your entire argument on a post-to-post basis just so that you aren't wrong dude.

 

[StrymULTRA]

You're changing your entire argument on a post-to-post basis just so that you aren't wrong dude.

Nothing wrong with that. Is literally how debates work.