Goten and Trunks fight an old enemy (0-6-0) (ONE MORE FOR GRACE)

[SlendVeny]

Weren't they stronger than Piccolo(who's above a Cell jr, who scales to perfect cell) BEFORE the hbtc? And now, they're stronger than those super saiyan forms?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Weren't they stronger than Piccolo(who's above a Cell jr, who scales to perfect cell) BEFORE the hbtc? And now, they're stronger than those super saiyan forms?

Piccolo was NOT above a Cell Jr.
Even Cell himself said only Vegeta and Trunks were able to hold their own against them. As for Goten and Trunks, they are likely weaker than Goku and Gohan in the Cell Games, who were obviously both far below Perfect Cell

 

[Mapl3Sy4up]

Man named after a structure above the molecular level FRA

 

[SlendVeny]

Piccolo was NOT above a Cell Jr.
Even Cell himself said only Vegeta and Trunks were able to hold their own against them. As for Goten and Trunks, they are likely weaker than Goku and Gohan in the Cell Games, who were obviously both far below Perfect Cell

Have you read the AP blog? Specifically, the bit about Buu Saga Piccolo and Shin?

Also, the Cell JRs are a bit weaker than I thought.

 

[SlendVeny]

What I'm saying is that since they're now stronger than Piccolo in base, they're 50x Cell Jr. in SSJ.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Have you read the AP blog? Specifically, the bit about Buu Saga Piccolo and Shin?

Shin isn't stronger than a Cell Jr. either. He was only stated to be above Piccolo, who is >>> Pre-HBTC Piccolo = Android 17

The part with Piccolo being > Cell Jr. has nothing to prove it

 

[SlendVeny]

Shin isn't stronger than a Cell Jr. either. He was only stated to be above Piccolo, who is >>> Pre-HBTC Piccolo = Android 17

That's not what the AP blog says.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

That's not what the AP blog says.

As if I care. The rating is based on nothing and the reasonings are pretty much headcanon

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Shin isn't stronger than a Cell Jr. either. He was only stated to be above Piccolo, who is >>> Pre-HBTC Piccolo = Android 17

The part with Piccolo being > Cell Jr. has nothing to prove it

All I'm gonna say is that Shin is directly stated to be as strong as MSSJ Cell Games Goku in the Guidebooks and leave it at that.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

All I'm gonna say is that Shin is directly stated to be as strong as MSSJ Cell Games Goku in the Guidebooks and leave it at that.

And this is only said there, and the reasonings are pretty stupid as well. They say Shin = Goku because he was stomped by Dabura and Goku was stomped by Cell, who is = Dabura

And the Shin = SSJ Goku is rejected here

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

And this is only said there, and the reasonings are pretty stupid as well. They say Shin = Goku because he was stomped by Dabura and Goku was stomped by Cell, who is = Dabura

And the Shin = SSJ Goku is rejected here

That's stupid. Where was this rejected? It's literally the only statement on Shin's Power in the entire series other than him stating that he could One-Shot Frieza, how was that rejected?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

That's stupid. Where was this rejected? It's literally the only statement on Shin's Power in the entire series other than him stating that he could One-Shot Frieza, how was that rejected?

There are actually more statements, including the one with Piccolo being weaker than Shin

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

There are actually more statements, including the one with Piccolo being weaker than Shin

OK, I missed one. That's on me, but that wouldn't mean him being Cell Games Goku level is invalid, especially if he can't beat Dabura who's as strong as Cell is. Seems like everything adds up to me.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

OK, I missed one. That's on me, but that wouldn't mean him being Cell Games Goku level is invalid, especially if he can't beat Dabura who's as strong as Cell is. Seems like everything adds up to me.

Not really. Just because Shin is stronger than Piccolo doesn't mean he's equal to Goku. And the reasons are stupid too. Cell is equal to Dabura, Cell stomps Goku while Dabura stomps Shin, therefore Goku = Shin

This ignores the fact that Cell pretty much stomps everyone in the Cell Saga so this reasoning doesn't work. On the same way I can say "Cell is equal to Dabura. Cell stomps Krillin and Dabura stomps Shin. Therefore Krillin = Shin" and it works the same way as the other statement. Just because it "makes sense to me" doesn't mean it's true or its logic is sound, because it's clearly isn't

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Not really. Just because Shin is stronger than Piccolo doesn't mean he's equal to Goku. And the reasons are stupid too. Cell is equal to Dabura, Cell stomps Goku while Dabura stomps Shin, therefore Goku = Shin

This ignores the fact that Cell pretty much stomps everyone in the Cell Saga so this reasoning doesn't work. On the same way I can say "Cell is equal to Dabura. Cell stomps Krillin and Dabura stomps Shin. Therefore Krillin = Shin" and it works the same way as the other statement. Just because it "makes sense to me" doesn't mean it's true or its logic is sound, because it's clearly isn't

We literally have a Stamement that says he's equal to Cell Games Goku, as well as the other statements which support him being that strong and then him losing to Dabura. Nothing in the series says other wise and that Krillin analogy is ******* awful.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

We literally have a Stamement that says he's equal to Cell Games Goku, as well as the other statements which support him being that strong and then him losing to Dabura. Nothing in the series says other wise and that Krillin analogy is ******* awful.

There is no other statements that support him being that strong. The gap between Goku and Piccolo was huge in the Cell Games, as even Grade 3 Trunks was shocked by Goku's energy at half of his full power, so being stronger than Piccolo =/= being equal to Goku. Being able to one shot Frieza is also not supporting it since even the Androids can one shot SSJ Trunks, who stomped Frieza

Also, the analogy works just fine based on the reasoning for scalings. It literally said because Goku is stomped by Cell and Shin is stomped by Dabura, that means they're equal. The same logic works for Krillin too, since Cell stomps Krillin, and Dabura stomps Shin. Does that mean Krillin = Shin? Of course not, because the logic behind these reasonings is stupid

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

There is no other statements that support him being that strong. The gap between Goku and Piccolo was huge in the Cell Games, as even Grade 3 Trunks was shocked by Goku's energy at half of his full power, so being stronger than Piccolo =/= being equal to Goku. Being able to one shot Frieza is also not supporting it since even the Androids can one shot SSJ Trunks, who stomped Frieza

Also, the analogy works just fine based on the reasoning for scalings. It literally said because Goku is stomped by Cell and Shin is stomped by Dabura, that means they're equal. The same logic works for Krillin too, since Cell stomps Krillin, and Dabura stomps Shin. Does that mean Krillin = Shin? Of course not, because the logic behind these reasonings is stupid

You know who else got stomped by Cell? Grade 3 Trunks as soon as Cell stopped ******* around so why did you default to Krillin of all people? That's disregarding the fact that even if the reasoning is stupid, it's still an official statement that Shin is Goku's Level regardless if you agree with it or not so you're just gonna have to cope with that fact.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

You know who else got stomped by Cell? Grade 3 Trunks as soon as Cell stopped ******* around so why did default to Krillin of all people? That's disregarding the fact that even if the reasoning is stupid, it's still an official statement that Shin is Goku's Level regardless if you agree with it or not so you're just gonna have to cope with that fact.

I'm just telling you the reason why it got rejected. And why this logic is stupid. Using Krillin makes it plainly obvious to why it is idiotic.
You said Cell stomped Trunks too? Then by the same logic Shin = Trunks = Goku
If you want to change it, make a CRT about it. Otherwise, it's you who need to cope with Shin =/= Goku, not me

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I'm just telling you the reason why it got rejected. And why this logic is stupid. Using Krillin makes it plainly obvious to why it is idiotic.
If you want to change it, make a CRT about it. Otherwise, it's you who need to cope with Shin =/= Goku, not me

Alright, I will do that. Just gotta go grab the scan because that's ******* asinine.

 

[Vizer04]

I'm just telling you the reason why it got rejected. And why this logic is stupid. Using Krillin makes it plainly obvious to why it is idiotic.

We know Krillin can't be equal to Shin since he's far below the Androids, that's an anti-feat. We can't say that for Shin.

 

[CBslayeR]

Wasn't this already concluded

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

We know Krillin can't be equal to Shin since he's far below the Androids, that's an anti-feat. We can't say that for Shin.

I know, this is why this logic is stupid. But then again, you could say the same thing about Trunks, or Vegeta or anyone else that fought there, and it wouldn't change a thing

The logic alone implies that because Cell stomps someone, and Dabura stomps Shin, that mean Shin = That Someone (Goku, Vegeta, Trunks or anyone else since the logic is the same for anyone, even for the likes of Krillin and Tien)

 

[Vizer04]

You could say the same thing about Trunks, or Vegeta or anyone else that fought there, and it wouldn't change a thing

That's also not a fair comparision since we know that Goku is at least twice stronger than Vegeta and Trunks, that's another anti-feat btw.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

That's also not a fair comparision since we know that Goku is at least twice stronger than Vegeta and Trunks, that's another anti-feat btw.

So what? I'm talking about how it is ridiculous to scale just because of a statement whose logic doesn't even work. This is not a proof since just because Goku is stomped by Cell and Shin is stomped by Dabura, doesn't mean that Goku = Shin. Even if Cell = Dabura, that doesn't mean Goku = Shin.
Even if Shin would be weaker than Goku, he'd still be stomped by Dabura, so this isn't a proof for strength, and you might as well could say he's equal to Vegeta or Trunks for the same reason as why he'd be equal to Goku

 

[Vizer04]

you might as well could say he's equal to Vegeta or Trunks for the same reason as why he'd be equal to Goku

Except you can't since as i explained before, they're weaker than Goku using his 50%

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Except you can't since as i explained before, they're weaker than Goku using his 50%

How does this relate to this argument? The only reason that Shin is even thought to be this strong is because of that statement. In the manga his only feats is being able to one shot Frieza and being stronger than Piccolo, and just being stronger than Piccolo doesn't mean he's equal to Goku

As I said, the power gap between 50% Goku to Piccolo and everyone else was massive, so just because Piccolo is weaker than Shin doesn't mean he's as powerful as Goku, especially when he logic behind the statement is idiotic and doesn't actually work

 

[SlendVeny]

There is no other statements that support him being that strong. The gap between Goku and Piccolo was huge in the Cell Games, as even Grade 3 Trunks was shocked by Goku's energy at half of his full power, so being stronger than Piccolo =/= being equal to Goku. Being able to one shot Frieza is also not supporting it since even the Androids can one shot SSJ Trunks, who stomped Frieza

Also, the analogy works just fine based on the reasoning for scalings. It literally said because Goku is stomped by Cell and Shin is stomped by Dabura, that means they're equal. The same logic works for Krillin too, since Cell stomps Krillin, and Dabura stomps Shin. Does that mean Krillin = Shin? Of course not, because the logic behind these reasonings is stupid

Bruh, Piccolo is way stronger than he was in the Cell Games. He was training for like 3 years.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Bruh, Piccolo is way stronger than he was in the Cell Games. He was training for like 3 years.

And do you have any proof to how much stronger compared to the Cell Games he became? Simply becoming stronger doesn't mean at all that he closed the gap between him and the Cell Jrs.

 

[Vizer04]

Anyway, i'll probably make a CRT to scale Shin to SSJ Goku soon.

 

[Vizer04]

Well, it looks like someone had the same idea...