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Dragon Ball Z Manga Power Scaling

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FluffyCreatureZ said:
Had cell just woken up from the lab at that point in the timeline? I believe he did considering Trunks knew exactly when he was going to. If it's true then this can work.
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Trunks knew what he was going to do, because he defaulted to killing Trunks after the Androids were destroyed in his timeline.

I'll just put 'at least comparable' to be safe.
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Wait. The hell. That scan. Piccolo states verbatim that Cell is stronger than the androids. Also MFTL+ Cell lmao.
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It makes him stronger than Super Saiyan Vegeta and the level of power the Androids fought them at (Z-Fighters can't sense their Ki). If he was stronger than the Androids, he would be superior to 17.
 

ByAsura said:
How's this?

At least Star level+ (Far stronger than Super Saiyan Vegeta. At least comparable to Future Cell, who surpasses the Future Android 17 [who in turn overwhelmed Future Gohan at half power], as he managed to consume the population of Ginger Town. After absorbing hundreds of thousands of humans, he casually overwhelmed Piccolo and Android 17 before matching Android 16)
Click to expand...
It would make sense if that puts him above present 18 and 17 as well since Piccolo literally fought them and watched vegeta fight them no sides holding back. The Z fighters are skilled enough to know exactly how powerful someone is without reading their ki.
The justification itself is fine.
 
Piccolo was way stronger than Cell with weights, and yet he was equal to 17. So it doesn't make sense.

It'd make sense if he just said Android or if 16 fought, but he's only referring to the level of strength 17 and 18 fought him and Vegeta at.
 
Should I just make 2nd HTC Vegeta another key like Future Trunks' profile?

If everyone agrees, could you also convert this to imgur?
 
Oh, shouldn’t Semi-Perfect Cell’s justification mention that he absorbed and added the power of 17 own his own?
 
Wait, didn't Cell only surpassed the Present Androids AFTER Ginger Town?

Cell said before arriving that now he finally surpassed the Androids, and Piccolo, who was equal to 17, had a big advantage over Cell
 
The present androids are superior to the future androids. And the Cell that attacked Trunks came from a future where he killed Frieza and King Cold instead of Goku, so I think they'd be as strong in his timeline.
 
ByAsura said:
The present androids are superior to the future androids. And the Cell that attacked Trunks came from a future where he killed Frieza and King Cold instead of Goku, so I think they'd be as strong in his timeline.
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Yes, but this doesn't necessarily mean Cell is stronger than Vegeta as well. The statement of Cell being > The Androids was at a time false, since only in the second encounter he became stronger than them

Cell also didn't kill Frieza. Goku did in all timelines except the present timeline

Basically, Piccolo's statement is false, and Cell should scale to his Future self, who is stronger than the Future Androids
 
Or, Piccolo's just going off the fact that they overpowered Vegeta because he can't sense their ki.
 
ByAsura said:
Or, Piccolo's just going off the fact that they overpowered Vegeta because he can't sense ki.
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Yes, but that can't be used for scaling Cell. Yes he saw Vegeta being overpowered, but Vegeta did gave a good fight to 18 before she stalled him out of stamina.

Vegeta managed to be almost on par with 18 at some points, but he lost more and more power the more tired he became. Piccolo saud it himself that he's gonna lose because she waited for his stamina to drop

However, Cell was also overpowered by Piccolo, who is equal to 17. Cell only escaped since he used the Solar Flare
 
But Piccolo's entire point was that Cell is superior to characters who were overpowering Vegeta. I don't see why not.

Unless 18 was pretty casual, which we list her as on our profiles already.

Again, Piccolo does not know how strong 17 is. He can't sense their ki. All he can possibly know is that they're stronger to some extent than the Z-Fighters.
 
ByAsura said:
But Piccolo's entire point was that Cell is superior to characters who were overpowering Vegeta. I don't see why not.
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Because he explicably wasn't. Cell only surpassed the Androids when he reappeared during the Piccolo VS 17 fight. He even said himself that soon he'll surpass them after going to Ginger Town
ByAsura said:
Unless 18 was pretty casual, which we list her as on our profiles already.
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She wasn't. Vegeta requested 18 to not hold back and both went full power. Android 17, who knows Android 18's power and saw Vegeta's battle with her, also mentioned that if Piccolo and Trunks would join Vegeta against 18, even she will get overpowered, which is why he said that he'll not attack as long as only Vegeta will fight 18
ByAsura said:
Again, Piccolo does not know how strong 17 is. He can't sense their ki. All he can possibly know is that they're stronger to some extent than the Z-Fighters.
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That is true, but his basis for the statement is false since at the time he said it, Cell wasn't stronger than the Androids in the present
 
You know 18 could just easily be lying? Piccolo was massively superior to Vegeta and Goku by their own admission, so unless 18 is hugely inferior to 17, I doubt it.

And even if 18 was hugely inferior to Piccolo, that actually supports it because Vegeta and 18 could just be below Cell, while Cell is below 17.

Piccolo also stated that he couldn't deal with all the Androids at once, despite it being the in the same chapter as that panel. So it's entirely likely full power 18 would lose if all 3 of them tried to fight her at once.

Ok, what are you talking about? My point is that Piccolo cannot possibly know their strength, and is just comparing them to Super Vegeta (whose strength he's actually capable of sensing). The true strength of the androids is completely immaterial because I'm not using this to compare Cell to the Androids.
 
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SSJ Vegeta is close enough in power to Android 18 so that the combination of Vegeta, Trunks and Piccolo will overpower her.

Keep in mind that Trunks is far weaker than Vegeta here, and while Vegeta could fight Android 18 well, Trunks got one shotted, and Piccolo is even weaker than Trunks before merging with Kami

When Piccolo also merged with Kami, Android 16 said that there's someone with a power rivaling them, referring to Piccolo, who later proves this when he matched 17.

He didn't mentioned Cell despite 16 being able to sense Cell as well, meaning Cell is < 18 and 17, much like Vegeta.

So: Kamiccolo = Android 17 ~ Android 18 > Cell while also: Android 18 > Vegeta
 
As I said, Kamiccolo says the same thing about the Androids, despite it being the chapter just prior to where that Cell > Vegeta panel is from. 3 people far stronger than Gero could genuinely be a threat to her by combining their powers.

Kami suggests it's somewhat more of a toss up than that. Obviously Future Trunks is inferior, but the fact that he was bodied so easily is probably evident of how much she could clown on those characters if she wanted.

Which is again, immaterial. We're not talking about the Androids, we're talking about what someone who can't sense their abilities thinks based on a fight between someone whose abilities he can sense and himself.

Or, more likely, Kamiccolo = 17 < Android 18 (it's confirmed she's inferior to 17, but not vastly) << Cell < Casual 17 & 18 < Vegeta < Piccolo.

Honestly, the fact that this scaling pits Vegeta anywhere near 17 shows why it doesn't work. Kamiccolo's weighted form alone was far stronger than Vegeta.

Not only that, but Vegeta described Cell's power as huge, and implies some parity with the Androids after they explicitly surpassed him.

Edit: Vegeta himself strongly implies this after Piccolo tells him Cell's story.
 
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ByAsura said:
As I said, Kamiccolo says the same thing about the Androids, despite it being the chapter just prior to where that Cell > Vegeta panel is from. 3 people far stronger than Gero could just generally be a threat to her by combining their powers.

Kami suggests it's somewhat more of a toss up than that. Obviously Future Trunks is inferior, but the fact that he was bodied so easily is probably evident of how much she could clown on those characters if she wanted.

Which is again, immaterial. We're not talking about the Androids, we're talking about what someone who can't sense their abilities thinks based on a fight between someone whose abilities he can sense and himself.

Or, more likely, Kamiccolo = 17 < Android 18 (it's confirmed she's inferior to 17, but not vastly) << Cell < Casual 17 & 18 < Vegeta < Piccolo.

Honestly, the fact that this scaling pits Vegeta anywhere near 17 shows why it doesn't work. His weighted form alone was far stronger than Vegeta.

Not only that, but Vegeta described Cell's power as huge, and implies some parity with the Androids.

Edit: Vegeta himself strongly implies this after Piccolo tells him Cell's story.
Click to expand...
Aren't you trying to scale Imperfect Cell above SSJ Vegeta? If so, how is there a debate?

  • SSJ Vegeta fights 18
  • 18 overwhelms Vegeta in Power
  • Piccolo meets Cell
  • Piccolo states the strength Cell possess is greater than the one 18 used to defeat Vegeta.
Simple. A17 ~ A18 (Full Power) >> Imperfect Cell > Casual 18 > SSJ Vegeta.

Again, why is there a debate going?
 
ByAsura said:
The proposal to scale Cell above Vegeta was applied. Gilad is currently disagreeing with what's on the profiles.
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Oh. Well, too bad, it makes perfect sense logically, and this CRT is convoluted as it is. If it's already on the profiles, I don't think it needs to be discussed here.
 
Android 18 wasn't suppressed when Vegeta fough her. Android 17 said based on Vegeta's performance that if Piccolo and Trunks would join Vegeta, then even she will be overwhelmed

So: SSJ Vegeta + SSJ Trunks + Piccolo > FP Android 18 > SSJ Vegeta

Android 16 also stated that when Piccolo and Cell fought, he said that one of the powers rivals theirs, which was Piccolo's power, as he proved it later against 17.

Imperfect Cell was weaker than the Androids initially, as he later says himself that it'll not be long before he surpasses them
 
What's being debated again? It's been going in circles for far too long tbh.

I heard something about how strong 17 and 18 are compared to everyone else. And how strong Goku and Vegeta are compared to Trunks and then something something.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
What's being debated again? It's been going in circles for far too long tbh.

I heard something about how strong 17 and 18 are compared to everyone else. And how strong Goku and Vegeta are compared to Trunks and then something something.
Click to expand...
Gilad protested about what's already applied on the profiles, about Cell scaling above SSJ Vegeta (vs 18), but that's not to be discussed in this already long thread, he should make a CRT on it.
 
Vizer04 said:
Can someone unlock Son Gohan and Vegeta's profiles please? I have to remove the likely ratings from their profiles too.
Click to expand...
I have done so.

After all of your edits have been applied, please list the exactly worded titles for all of the controversial/popular Dragon Ball pages that need to be locked again.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Gilad protested about what's already applied on the profiles, about Cell scaling above SSJ Vegeta (vs 18), but that's not to be discussed in this already long thread, he should make a CRT on it.
Click to expand...
It's not that I disagree with Cell being above Vegeta, but rather about Cell being > 18 at this point, which is false. Cell can still be above Vegeta but below 18
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
It's not that I disagree with Cell being above Vegeta, but rather about Cell being > 18 at this point, which is false. Cell can still be above Vegeta but below 18
Click to expand...
That's not even remotely close to what Asura was arguing.
He said Piccolo used the power 18 demonstrated as a comparison to Vegeta.
Full Power 18 > Imp. Cell > 18 (??%) > Vegeta

18 is just a scape goat here, she isn't being downplayed at all, lmao
 
Somehow, I don't think 18's exact strength is the relevant part; I agree she can't be too much weaker than 17, but it's safe to say 17 is the stronger of the 2. Goku and Vegeta are at the time significantly stronger than Trunks. Which I can't couch if Future Trunks whether or not he surpassed Future Gohan at any point but being 2x stronger than Future Gohan is pretty given with present Androids being a lot stronger than Future Androids. But being more than 2x stronger than Frieza saga SSJ Goku is reasonable.

When Goku sparred, he was able to casually repel every blow from Trunks with one finger, and Trunks seemed confident Goku would have been strong enough to save the future if he was to go to his time period. 18 definitely is stronger than Vegeta who is stronger than Goku at the time. It's unknown whether or not she's stronger than Imperfect Cell prior to mass human absorptions, but she shouldn't be too much weaker than 17 who is equal to Kami Fused Piccolo.

Wasn't sure if this was all still going on, but I hope things were cleared out.
 
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