Dragon Ball Z Manga Power Scaling

[AKM sama]

The fact that he didn't do it doesn't mean it it isn't possible for him to do it, especially when he directly confirms earlier that he's capable of using Kaioken times 10 when arriving to Namek. Goku doesn't lie nor does he overestimates himself regarding his power, so he's a pretty reliable source regading his own power

Which is why he gets likely. "Likely" is more generous than "possibly" which could have also fit this scenario.

We’re already using x10 to get Namek Goku to Low 4-C, so haven’t we already accepted the multiplier in this/another thread? Both are also more recent than that other thread where it was rejected.

It is accepted, not rejected. Only thing is that it should be likely. We downscale base Goku by 10x, which is fine as a low end. I won't have a problem if base Goku gets downscaled by x4, likely x10 of that value.

The point is 10x kaioken Goku should not be a hypothetical. Just because we don't see it doesn't mean Goku can't do it. And if Goku himself says "he's sure" that he can use it then it should be concrete. Goku has never been one to misjudge his own capabilities.

Which is why he got likely instead of possibly.

Goku can accurately estimate the power of people just by looking at them fighting, him being unable to understand his own power is beyond ridiculous.

If we assumed he is unable to understand his own power, we would have rejected it and wouldn't have given a likely rating.

It's not "hypothetical", Goku literally uses against Freeza. Tien confirms that it comes from his training, NOT his zenkais, and Tien is entirely ignorant about Goku's current Power Level.

Tien isn't a better source of info than Goku himself. Goku said it about himself, which is why we are assuming it must be true. Which is why we give him "likely" instead of possibly. For something that is completely hypothetical for pre-Zenkai Goku, I don't know why it should be a concrete rating.

Anyway, that's my take on it. If other staff members disagree with it, I can edit my blog accordingly.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Akm my friend. Just because it's hypothetical does not mean it's not concrete. There is literally no reason for you to doubt goku's kk10 statement.
Everyone agrees with removing it, and I'm just waiting for you. Actually, pfizer has even hastily edited 90% of the DB profiles and removed the likely ratings.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Tien isn't a better source of info than Goku himself.

He is a source of exposition regardless, this is the point we draw the line of "This is a story/line written by someone, not an actual human being speaking".

For something that is completely hypothetical for pre-Zenkai Goku, I don't know why it should be a concrete rating.

Huh? What? Why is the word hypothetical being used here? Why? It does not apply at all, "Pre-Zenkai Goku" is not a thing, it doesn't exist as an actual separation, it's the same character, same abilities, only less powerful, we just pretend it exists because of the difference in power.

Goku used Kaioken x10, just like he said he could when he finished his training, which he said he could achieve DUE to his training.
Tien confirmed Goku has the TRAINING needed to perform a Times 10 Kaioken, not countered by King Kai.
Two clear cut lines that serve no other purpose other than expose Goku's capabilities.

Plus, we have a GUIDE saying Goku had Kaioken x10 at that point, how is that a "likely", I don't understa~Aaand...

• Goku says he can use Kaioken x10 after his training.
• Tien says Goku can use Kaioken x10 due to his training.
• Goku actually uses Kaioken x10
• Databook states Goku had Kaioken x10.

How is that not concrete? Explain, break this down for me, please, I don't understand.

 

[Vizer04]

There's no reason for Goku to lie and adding a likely rating only makes the profiles more difficult to read.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

As we established before and made a thread that many staff (including even AKM), Kaioken times 10 Goku is a legitimate fact.

We have multiple sources of evidence for Goku's kaioken times 10 to be valid. For one, Goku himself states he can do it, and he never overestimates his abilities compares to others

Tien also confirms it and says that after his training he should be able to use Kaioken times 10, as he showed against Frieza. Goku even manages to use Kaioken times 20 despite nit training to master the technique any more than he did on his way to Namek

If you think this is wrong. I want a detailed breakdown as to why it is wrong, using stuff from the manga and supporting guides

 

[AKM sama]

Fine. I have removed the likely. Let's get on with editing the profiles accordingly.

 

[Vizer04]

Fine. I have removed the likely. Let's get on with editing the profiles accordingly.

I've already edited most of the profiles.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I can handle the changes as per asura's blog. I'll do it whdn I'm free.

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody write a list of the EXACTLY WORDED titles for all of the Dragon Ball pages that I need to unlock for you to edit, so I can handle it with my automated script, please?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Just open all these.
Son Goku (Dragon Ball Z)
Vegeta (Dragon Ball Z)
Son Gohan (Dragon Ball Z)
Piccolo
Krillin
Tien Shinhan
Son Goten
Trunks
Future Trunks
Future Gohan
Master Roshi
Shin
Kibito
Frieza
King Cold
Tagoma
Android 17
Android 18
Android 16
Android 19
Dr. Gero
Cell
Cell Jr.
Dabura
Yakon
Majin Buu
Gotenks
Vegito
Son Goku (Chou)
Vegeta (Chou)
Goku Black (Chou)
God Zamasu (Chou)
Jiren (Chou)
Moro
Merus
Seven-Three
Brianna de Chateau
Sanka Ku
Sous Roas
Jimizu
Catopesra
Bergamo
Lavender
Napapa
Cocotte
Casserale
Kettol
Zoiray

 

[Vizer04]

Something is wrong with Tien Shinhan's page, i can't edit it

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Something is wrong with Tien Shinhan's page, i can't edit it

There was a blocked link. I sorted it out.

 

[Antvasima]

I have unlocked all of the above-listed pages, but it should probably be enough to re-lock the ones that are genuinely controversial/popular after they have been edited.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I have unlocked all of the above-listed pages, but it should probably be enough to re-lock the ones that are genuinely controversial/popular after they have been edited.

I wanna point out that many of these pages have been unlocked for a few months and no one ever bothered vandalizing them. But anyway I will try to finish them as soon as possible.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we can decide which of the Dragon Ball pages that should be locked after the current edits have been applied.

 

[ByAsura]

I stopped getting notifications for some reason.

 

[Vizer04]

Where's your blog Asura man?

 

[ByAsura]

ByAsura/Sandbox22

vsbattles.fandom.com

I'll make it into a blog

 

[ByAsura]

Blog.

 

[LordTracer]

Goku curbstomped the Ginyu Force, causing Vegeta to admit (incorrectly) that he's a Super Saiyan. Additionally, Goku's capable of a Kaioken x10, and believed he could at least heavily assist against 2nd Form Frieza. >489 Ninatons.
Goku's capable of Kaioken x10. >4.89 Tenatons.

I think this part of the blog should be rewritten to something more clear, like this:

Goku is capable of a Kaioken x10. >489 Ninatons.
With a Kaioken x10, Goku believed he could at least heavily assist against 2nd Form Frieza. >4.89 Tenatons.

 

[ByAsura]

That makes less sense.

It should be swapped around.

 

[LordTracer]

How does it make less sense? Putting the Freeza justification next to the 4.89 Tenatons would be more logical since that’s what Freeza scales to.

 

[ByAsura]

I suppose that's fine, then.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Asura. Hand me the scan when SSJ Trunks threatened semi perfect cell. Preferably in Imgur and the chapter number too.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Post RoSaT, Vegeta literally thought Semi-Perfect Cell was like very weak and it was Vegeta who said that "Even my son is a much better match for me than you are; so you're not even second" or something along those lines.

 

[ByAsura]

DBZ Chapter 185 & 186. I don't know what number that is in the overall manga, but I think you can see it if you look up the viz numbers.

We agreed earlier that he's an immediate threat, but I doubt he's superior to Cell (at least to any substantial extent). Otherwise he wouldn't have had to use Grade 2 completely outspeed Cell.

 

[ByAsura]

I talked about this before, but the actual translation of Bulma's statement is not 'that different.' She doesn't say Gohan is weaker or stronger than Trunks.

Edit: Raws.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Good job pfizer. You made it much easier on me. All I had to do is change justifications and clean up some stuff you missed. Anyway is there any profile I'm missing?

 

[ByAsura]

There's Piccolo, but I'll take care of that.

 

[LordTracer]

Good job pfizer. You made it much easier on me. All I had to do is change justifications and clean up some stuff you missed. Anyway is there any profile I'm missing?

Cell. His Imperfect key scales him above Freeza but the AP blog says he scales to Future 17 and 18.

 

[ByAsura]

I'll get the scans for those statements.

 

[ByAsura]

Future Cell is stronger than the Androids.

Cell absorbed 15,000 humans, whereas his counterpart was from a mostly desolate timeline.

I don't have access to imgur.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

But how do you know he still didn't eat a lot of people? The population of the future timeline is definitely bigger than one town considering it's big enough for them to rebuild a whole city.

 

[ByAsura]

I didn't say he didn't eat anyone. It's just that he wasn't active for as long and was in a much more desolate future.

Plus, if he did eat thousands or even hundreds, would that not attract attention or be indicated to in any kind of way by the author?

 

[LordTracer]

Future Cell is stronger than the Androids.

Cell absorbed 15,000 humans, whereas his counterpart was from a mostly desolate timeline.

I don't have access to imgur.

Here’s Imgur versions.

 

[ByAsura]

Thanks.

 

[ByAsura]

Could I also get one for this?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I didn't say he didn't eat anyone. It's just that he wasn't active for as long and was in a much more desolate future.

Plus, if he did eat thousands or even hundreds, would that not attract attention or be indicated to in any kind of way by the author?

Had cell just woken up from the lab at that point in the timeline? I believe he did considering Trunks knew exactly when he was going to. If it's true then this can work.

Could I also get one for this?

 

[LordTracer]

Here you go.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Wait. The hell. That scan. Piccolo states verbatim that Cell is stronger than the androids. Also MFTL+ Cell lmao.