I mean, at the very least, as you said, shouldn't he have 2-C durability? Not only did he withstand hits from Cell Max, survive hitting Cell Max's head (Newton's law dictates his durability would need to be comparable to tank that), AND withstood the spikes that were 2-C for him to be able to hurt Cell Max? I don't think that'd be iffy tbh.
I mean, doesn't Dragon Ball do Ki scaling? If Gotenks durability is Tier 2, I agree that his AP would have to be of a comparable level. That's how Ki's generally worked since Z. With the exception of character's who specialize in a certain field (i.e. Burter and Dyspo with their speed).
Yes, that's what I was implying
I mean, I can buy that. But I think there would need to be precedent. Like other instances of Fat Fusion being a stonewall. A statement would be preferred, but feats are better than nothing. But I think outright scaling would be fine.
Safest bet would be Base Piccolo and Base Gohan but they likely scale above them.
Gotenks would need the durability and in DB, Durability = AP because of how Ki works. Gotenks was flung around and smashed into Cell Max's head with greater potency than Ultimate Piccolo's ki wave. Therefore Gotenks's durability > Ultimate Piccolo's AP, so Gotenks > Ultimate Piccolo.
If this were the case then Ultimate Gohan would have killed Cell Max very easily when Cell Max's power went down or Ultimate Piccolo or Gamma 1 or Gamma 2, so your idea is that Krillin, A18, Goten and Trunks were just really really lucky or somehow way more skilled than the other four far stronger fighters. Yeah, to me that's ridiculous. It's clear Cell Max was always above Ultimate Gohan or even Orange Piccolo. No matter how uncontrolled he was.
Ok, you have to admit that this of all things is too ridiculous to not be put into question.
People forget about fiction showing groups of characters fighting individuals a world of power above them
I want to remind everybody real quick that training one's body separate from their Ki is a real thing.
Either way, even if we assumed Cell Max was weakening at points or it was just team effort, Goten and Trunks were depicted as fighting just fine and only struggling with the Fusion Dance whereas A18 nearly died and Krillin was depicted as out of his element.
Yeah and this is Failed Gotenks, which is arguably a weak body version of Gotenks, having the durability to crack Cell Max's head and he isn't even able to transform. Cell Max's head having durability scaling above Ultimate Piccolo. Along with that, Ki serves as a multiplier on top of your body. Ki reinforces what you have. In other words if Failed Gotenks has 2-C durability with his body alone, then he could reinforce that with Ki to make it exponentially stronger. So him being 2-C becomes an even stronger argument.
Gohan became the strongest by studying biology, Goten and Trunks went to a private school and became 2-C in base form. The logic is clear, education is the path to ultimate power.The PS is so shit Goten and Trunks becoming 2 macrocosm 2-C by doing absolutely nothing and even forgetting how to fuse properly
Gohan becomes UI+ tier by studying
Confidence scaling is very flawed, especially in this case because:
This just means Goten and Trunks > Krillin, which I agree with
This just shows 18 about to be attacked by Cell Max, I don't see anything about killing here.
Showing them next to other guys doesn't imply anything...
See my entire point on how this was the result of Gotenks being ping-ponged by guys significantly stronger than him. Gamma 1 spiked him into Cell Max, which just means Gamma 1 > Ultimate Piccolo, which is very much true. At best this is 2-C durability because fat failed fusions have a precedent of being able to take a bunch of hits from stronger opponents
This ended up being more supported than the entire Goten and Trunks section. I actually agree with this
We barely see her do anything the entire fight and one of the only things we see her do is almost get killed. Rewatch the fight
The fact that they don't lag behind the guys who are actually 2 macrocosms 2-C is pretty damning in tandem with the fact that Krillin only does anything via surprise attacks and that 18 doesn't do much better than Krillin and even nearly gets killed. Also their fusion
1. He isn't at all harmed by getting ping ponged. And he has the durability to survive landing the strike on Cell Max. Newton's law
No they don't. Do NOT bring Veku vs Super Janemba into this. Janemba was toying with the Saiyans up until the successful fusion
The original Cell was a synthetic being created by specializing the cells of various warriors. Its body was wholly biological and organic.
Everybody heard Cell Max.
"X fought alongside Y, which means X scales to Y" is not how scaling works.
Did Cell Max lunge at any of the others?
"Sensed"? Bro, anyone could hear a guttural scream like Cell Max's
They all do the same thing of firing off ki blasts that hardly do anything to Cell Max. Prove she was almost killed. All we know is that Cell Max was about to grab her from the looks of things, then Krillin came in
Stop saying 18 was nearly killed. You haven't substantiated this. All we see is him about to grab her. And he doesn't do this to anyone else so you can't reasonably say he couldn't have.
1. That just means more for his durability
Veku was literally taking hits better than SSJ3 Goku, in fact taking more than he did. Yet he couldn't actually damage Janemba. Clearly his durability > his AP
Cell Max has biological innards
Fair point. But he's still clearly a biological being, so he most definitely has a life force to sense
Good thing I'm using it in tandem with other things
Multiple times throughout the battle
Because Ultimate Piccolo fought a Gamma and it wasn't a DRASTIC difference
If getting severely injured by every attack and running for his life in a montage is taking hits better than another, sure...
Tbf, I dunno if using the Janemba movie for precedent works given it's not canon to the Super timeline (Unless there was some CRT I missed that made the two canon to one another, if so, mb)
Again I must bring up Gamma 2 beginning to body Ultimate Piccolo after struggling to come to terms with what to believe, forcing Piccolo to go Orange
Goku was literally hiding from Janemba too wdym-
Doesn't matter. It's a general scaling precedent, canon or not
I think it does matter tho. I don't think how fusions work in a completely different canon should dictate how it should work in another canon. It would preferably be from the same canon.
That was mostly cuz he had to try to convince Vegeta to fuse
