Goku vs. Garou (Martial Arts Battle)

[azontr]

Goku’s power mimicry is no different than vegeta’s dirty fireworks. They will never be used in character

 

[DTG499]

Very profound. I’m conceding all my arguments.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

This is why only ikki skill debates are the only good debates. You never gotta worry about these kind of stuff.

 

[DTG499]

This is why only ikki skill debates are the only good debates. You never gotta worry about these kind of stuff.

That being said garuo no diffs

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

So who has more chances of winning since both can copy each other's move?

 

[DTG499]

So who has more chances of winning since both can copy each other's move?

When was the last time we saw Goku use power mimicry in the middle of a fight?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

So who has more chances of winning since both can copy each other's move?

There is more to skill than who can copy better. So far Goku has more advantages.

 

[DTG499]

...
Tien's technique is literally hax. This whole sequence is a ridiculously incredible skill feat, because Goku copied a martial art that makes it look like you have 8 arms while only having 2 and used it to overpower tien who had 4 ACTUAL arms.
He didn't copy roshi, he came up with something new on the spot.
Third link is him watching king chappa's martial arts style for the first time.
Hakai is an extremely advanced technique of the gods that Goku had to literally pull out of his butt on the spot with no prior training. Mind you vegeta had to train to hell to learn it.

Ok I’ll entertain this.

The fact that it was hax doesn’t change the fact that Goku DIDNT COPY anything.

Moving your arms really fast isn’t a skill feat in anyway shape or form it’s a speed feat.

Ok right so you agree that he didn’t copy roshi at all, great.

??? Him watching a martial arts style is a feat? Everybody does that! It’s not a skill feat.

All those “fighting styles” stay with kid Goku regardless, adult Goku has never used them.

All that was list is just more evidence that Goku doesn’t copy styles. You even admit he doesn’t copy.

Ok but did he copy the hakia in the middle of his fight with beerus? No he didn’t, so that is called non combat applicable.

 

[DTG499]

There is more to skill than who can copy better. So far Goku has more advantages.

Do you know who Yoel Romero is?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Ok I’ll entertain this.

The fact that it was hax doesn’t change the fact that Goku DIDNT COPY anything.

Moving your arms really fast isn’t a skill feat in anyway shape or form it’s a speed feat.

Ok right so you agree that he didn’t copy roshi at all, great.

??? Him watching a martial arts style is a feat? Everybody does that! It’s not a skill feat.

All those “fighting styles” stay with kid Goku regardless, adult Goku has never used them.

All that was list is just more evidence that Goku doesn’t copy styles. You even admit he doesn’t copy.

Ok but did he copy the hakia in the middle of his fight with beerus? No he didn’t, so that is called non combat applicable.

No, maybe I just wasn't concise enough.

In this scan:

Goku watches this super master martial artist use his martial arts. Then later in his fight with tien, he is able to perfectly copy the entire martial arts despite seeing it only once.

This is a skill feat because Goku and tien are just as fast as each other, however goku overwhelmed him through technique only despite tien having twice the arms.
This is something saitama needed actual speed to do to garou.

Yes Goku didn't copy roshi, he made up an entire fighting style to counter him which is objectively superior to just copying it.

Yes because adult Goku fodderizes kid goku and all his styles with sheer skill. Your attempt at downplay literally turned into a skill feat.

Beerus didn't use the hakai in his fight with Goku, Goku's first and only time seeing the technique was then:

Do you know who Yoel Romero is?

No.

 

[DTG499]

Goku watches this super master martial artist use his martial arts. Then later in his fight with tien, he is able to perfectly copy the entire martial arts despite seeing it only once.

This is a skill feat because Goku and tien are just as fast as each other, however goku overwhelmed him through technique only despite tien having twice the arms.

This comparison is very flimsy because we see roshi say that Goku is only moving his arms really fast. Tien and Goku being relative in speed doesn’t change the fact the statements say that it is a speed feat.

Yes Goku didn't copy roshi, he made up an entire fighting style to counter him which is objectively superior to just copying it.

Ok still not power mimicry. If Goku copied the drunken technique exactly as roshi did it then it would be. This is a skill feat.

Yes because adult Goku fodderizes kid goku and all his styles with sheer skill. Your attempt at downplay literally turned into a skill feat.

Just because he has the ability doesn’t mean he’ll use it. Adult Goku has never used power mimicry in the middle of a fight.

Beerus didn't use the hakai in his fight with Goku, Goku's first and only time seeing the technique was then:

my point doesn’t change

To my point of Yoel Romero he’s a 185 UFC who was a top contender for a while. He is an extraordinary good wrestler and when the time came too fight for the title he had a good chance of beating Izzy the 185 champion. All he had to do was use his wrestling but he never used it a single time during the 5 round fight and he lost because of it.

Goku’s power mimicry is Yoel Romero’s wrestling, it doesn’t matter how good it is they’ll never use it in a fight.

 

[DTG499]

 

[DTG499]

What does this statement mean to you guys?

“Now garou has gained knowledge of the flow of all energy and the behavior of all forces in the universe.”

 

[Gumball_Ushiromiya]

Holy shit this threads still alive

 

[SuperStar]

What does this statement mean to you guys?

“Now garou has gained knowledge of the flow of all energy and the behavior of all forces in the universe.”

NLF

 

[DTG499]

NLF

To what degree?

 

[Vietthai96]

NLF

To what degree??

Me: what, NLF now have degree???

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

This comparison is very flimsy because we see roshi say that Goku is only moving his arms really fast. Tien and Goku being relative in speed doesn’t change the fact the statements say that it is a speed feat.



Ok still not power mimicry. If Goku copied the drunken technique exactly as roshi did it then it would be. This is a skill feat.



Just because he has the ability doesn’t mean he’ll use it. Adult Goku has never used power mimicry in the middle of a fight.



my point doesn’t change

To my point of Yoel Romero he’s a 185 UFC who was a top contender for a while. He is an extraordinary good wrestler and when the time came too fight for the title he had a good chance of beating Izzy the 185 champion. All he had to do was use his wrestling but he never used it a single time during the 5 round fight and he lost because of it.

Goku’s power mimicry is Yoel Romero’s wrestling, it doesn’t matter how good it is they’ll never use it in a fight.

That doesn't change the fact that it's a skill feat. Not only is it a martial art copying feat like you requested, Goku also overwhelmed someone on comparable speed with technique despite being at a disadvantage. He's basically did the same thing saitama did to garou without actually having a ridiculous speed advantage.

Mate, the feat presented is even more impressive than power mimicry.

You seem to be conflating didn't with can't. This is a skill discussion, it's irrelevant.

This isn't relevant in this discussion. But Goku does actually copy his opponents moves all the time. It's true he does it less as an adult but still does, for example, he copied vegeta's copy of the kienzan. He copied beerus' entire fighting style during their fight to prevent the destruction of the universe. He copied krillins applications of the kienzan after krillin used it on him but against jiren. And of course he copied the hakai.

Depends on garou's apllications and limitations, so far it's too vague.

 

[DTG499]

Me: what, NLF now have degree???

Where’s the line in the sand, this is what he can do and this is what he can’t do with the ability.

 

[DTG499]

That doesn't change the fact that it's a skill feat. Not only is it a martial art copying feat like you requested, Goku also overwhelmed someone on comparable speed with technique despite being at a disadvantage. He's basically did the same thing saitama did to garou without actually having a ridiculous speed advantage.

Bro drop it, Roshi literally said it’s a speed feat.

Mate, the feat presented is even more impressive than power mimicry.

Even if it is “more impressive”. Goku still didn’t do the drunken fighting style and thus it’s not power mimicry.

You seem to be conflating didn't with can't. This is a skill discussion, it's irrelevant.

This a hand- to-hand combat match and they are both in character, what they would be willing to do in a fight is very ******* relevant.

for example, he copied vegeta's copy of the kienzan.

He didn’t do in the middle of the fight, so not relevant.

beerus' entire fighting style during their fight to prevent the destruction of the universe

not at all what happen that is very specifically a power nullification feat.

He copied krillins applications of the kienzan after krillin used it on him but against jiren.

?????? Bro it’s not power mimicry if he already knows how to do the technique.

 

[DTG499]

Depends on garou's apllications and limitations, so far it's too vague.

“Garou’s ability to instantly absorb and copy any technique is an extension of that flow”

We have never seen any statements like that made about Goku.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Bro drop it, Roshi literally said it’s a speed feat.

Even if it is “more impressive”. Goku still didn’t do the drunken fighting style and thus it’s not power mimicry.

This a hand- to-hand combat match and they are both in character, what they would be willing to do in a fight is very ******* relevant.

He didn’t do in the middle of the fight, so not relevant.

not at all what happen that is very specific power nullification feat.

?????? Bro it’s not power mimicry if he already knows how to do the technique.

No he did not literally say that. He was explaining why it looked like goku has 8 arms. Stop intentionally ignoring context.

I did not claim it was. This is a fighting style creation skill feat. You asked for examples of Goku copying and creating fighting styles and I presented it.

Sure. But Goku does actually copy techniques and integrate them into his own style.

Because he was crippled when he saw it?

Literal head canon. It was explicitly stated that Goku needed to match beerus' exact force and attack angle to negate the collateral damage.

Uh, yes it is? Copying applications of techniques is also a skill feat.

“Garou’s ability to instantly absorb and copy any technique is an extension of that flow”

We have never seen any statements like that made about Goku.

Buu has a similar statement and Goku is far more skilled by super.
Just fighting buu for a bit is enough for him to copy your moves.

 

[DTG499]

I’m just going to run through the list of what garou can do but Goku can’t.

Attack reflection his water fist can return attacks back onto Goku two

Durability Negation he can attack someone’s internal organs and shatter all their bones this becomes even more effective with Fa Jin

Adaptation his sense are constantly becoming sharper and his martial arts is as well.

Body control he can control his heart beat to such a degree that he surpass the limits of his body and he can actually do tien’s four arm technique

 

[DTG499]

No he did not literally say that. He was explaining why it looked like goku has 8 arms. Stop intentionally ignoring context.

“He’s just moving his arms quickly”

 

[Scython]

I’m just going to run through the list of what garou can do but Goku can’t.

Attack reflection his water fist can return attacks back onto Goku two

Durability Negation he can attack someone’s internal organs and shatter all their bones this becomes even more effective with Fa Jin

Adaptation his sense are constantly becoming sharper and his martial arts is as well.

Body control he can control his heart beat to such a degree that he surpass the limits of his body and he can actually do tien’s four arm technique

Goku has telepathy. Barrier creation around himself and others. Telekinesis. Teleportation. Paralysis. Hakai which is er. Cloning. Construct creation. Illusion creation. Attack cancellation. Ui. Mouth blast. Invisible eye blasts. Danmaku. Goku has adaption too. As a saiyan and with ui. Sealing. Solar flare. A rasangan like attack. And if you're talking about a composite goku he has more things going for him.

 

[DTG499]

Goku has telepathy. Barrier creation around himself and others. Telekinesis. Teleportation. Paralysis. Hakai which is er. Cloning. Construct creation. Illusion creation. Attack cancellation. Ui. Mouth blast. Invisible eye blasts. Danmaku. Goku has adaption too. As a saiyan and with ui. Sealing. Solar flare. A rasangan like attack. And if you're talking about a composite goku he has more things going for him.

He never telepathy offensively in a fight.

Barrier creation only was used to stop poison

Barely used TK in fights and garou has a resistance to it anyway

Garou can copy instant transmission

Hakia is only used by Goku as a last resort against an Zamasu because they could bypass his immortality. He never bothered to use ever again after that instance. He won’t use it on garou because the OP disabled regen and immortality.

Construct creation? What even is that?

Goku uses illusions to create clones so you just listed the same ability twice.

Goku has limited power nullification

Ok so ultra instinct is incredibly overrated. Street level characters from Baki the Grappler have had this ability years before dragon ball super came out. Garou has his own level of it too. Without a single doubt in my mind, garou would be able to perfectly copy ultra instinct.

Mouth blast? LMAO Garou would see that coming from a mile away.

Invisible eye blasts? I don’t see how that’s relevant. It’s just listed as Ki manip or air manip which garou can just copy and counter.

Danmaku is just a spam ability no precision or accuracy garou would dodge effortlessly.

Goku does not have adaptation he has reactive power level, they are very different.

Garou would just portal his way out of the mafuba.

Garou has fought people in his sleep twice, being blind temporary will not affect him.

 

[Scython]

He never telepathy offensively in a fight.

Barrier creation only was used to stop poison

Barely used TK in fights and garou has a resistance to it anyway

Garou can copy instant transmission

Hakia is only used by Goku as a last resort against an Zamasu because they could bypass his immortality. He never bothered to use ever again after that instance. He won’t use it on garou because the OP disabled regen and immortality.

Construct creation? What even is that?

Goku uses illusions to create clones so you just listed the same ability twice.

Goku has limited power nullification

Ok so ultra instinct is incredibly overrated. Street level characters from Baki the Grappler have had this ability years before dragon ball super came out. Garou has his own level of it too. Without a single doubt in my mind, garou would be able to perfectly copy ultra instinct.

Mouth blast? LMAO Garou would see that coming from a mile away.

Invisible eye blasts? I don’t see how that’s relevant. It’s just listed as Ki manip or air manip which garou can just copy and counter.

Danmaku is just a spam ability no precision or accuracy garou would dodge effortlessly.

Goku does not have adaptation he has reactive power level, they are very different.

Garou would just portal his way out of the mafuba.

Garou has fought people in his sleep twice being blind temporary will not affect him.

He created a barrier around himself. He also created a barrier around vegeta to stop gas's attack. His barrier blocked gas's sword attack and the sword broke against the barrier. His barrier also no sold ki blasts from gas. When he put vegeta in barrier he also used telekinesis on it.
In the moro arc he made a giant version of himself out of ki. He used an illusion against tien by displaying multiple arms and against whis he made multiple clones. Said clones acted on their own and attacked whis. Goku nullified jiren's ki blast and canceled out beerus physical attack.
Garou's not copying IT or ui.
Goku used hakai on a boulder in the moro arc. It was an instant attack. Same for his mouth blast. Ui isn't overrated and garou has nothing on ui. Garou hasn't been shown to copy invisible attacks either.
He won't be able to see hakai, god bind or goku's telekinesis or an invisible eye blast. Garou wouldn't be able to get out of the way of goku's danmaku or deal with its aoe. Especially if he has to deal with multiple clones, is trapped in a barrier, caught in god bind, flanked by IT or is caught in tk. He wouldn't be able to do anything after being caught in the mafuba.
Garou tries to copy ui he gets a worse treatment than moro. He tries to kick or punch goku and any limb that comes into contact with goku's body is getting broken. None of his attacks will do damage if he's even able to land any.
Hakai would end him. Any offense garou tries to do would get shutdown by god bind, telekinesis or by garou being put in a barrier. Goku has more experience than garou. He's fought more skilled people. His build is better than garou's. He's the smarter fighter. And he's just a better martial artist.

 

[Chariot190]

Garou would just portal his way out of the mafuba.

Actually, idk if that would work. It was supposed to work on Zamasu who, iirc, has inter-dimensional teleportation.

 

[azontr]

This has become less of a skill battle and more of a hax battle ngl.

 

[BOEGVELD]

Garou can copy instant transmission

Without a single doubt in my mind, garou would be able to perfectly copy ultra instinct.

Already NLF'ing Garou's PM. When has he even copied ki-related techniques?

Garou has fought people in his sleep twice being blind temporary will not affect him.

This was due to his Instinctive Reaction. He has no control over this whatsoever, so yeah, he would still be affected.

Garou would just portal his way out of the mafuba.

Since when can you just portal your way out of sealing technique? Sounds like bs.

Danmaku is just a spam ability no precision or accuracy garou would dodge effortlessly.

Mouth blast? LMAO Garou would see that coming from a mile away.

Goku's Danmaku is actually quite accurate. Plus with equal speed it'd be hard for him to dodge every single one. And Goku's range is insane. Garou has no way of dodging a city-continental range blast. It wouldn't even matter whether or not he could see it coming.

Barrier creation only was used to stop poison

That was a specific barrier, but not the only barrier he has. In the anime he can use his ki to create regular barriers, and in the manga he has recently done the same.

Goku also has Deconstruction, Existence Erasure and (limited) Durability Negation. Plus can come up with new fighting styles to counter his opponent. This really shouldn't be a debate lol.

 

[Phoenks]

Already NLF'ing Garou's PM. When has he even copied ki-related techniques?

Due to verse equalization, Ki would naturally be included in "The flow of all energy in the universe." So yes, he would be able to copy ki-related techniques.

Also, it hasn't been brought up in the manga yet (IIRC), but Chi does actually exist in the OPM world.

This was due to his Instinctive Reaction. He has no control over this whatsoever, so yeah, he would still be affected.

His techniques work on pure instinct, which is why he can still use them while asleep. And he has instinctive reactions outside of being asleep.

Goku's Danmaku is actually quite accurate. Plus with equal speed it'd be hard for him to dodge every single one. And Goku's range is insane. Garou has no way of dodging a city-continental range blast. It wouldn't even matter whether or not he could see it coming.

Garou can create portals to escape danmaku or just reflect them.

 

[Kachon123]

Already NLF'ing Garou's PM. When has he even copied ki-related techniques?

Verse equalization. Once Garou sees it once, it's part of his toolkit. Garou would then bring all techniques he copies to new heights greater than the original user could achieve.

This was due to his Instinctive Reaction. He has no control over this whatsoever, so yeah, he would still be affected.

He would be blind but his body would still move. Again, after getting hit, Garou would copy it and do the same to Goku.

Since when can you just portal your way out of sealing technique? Sounds like bs.

How does it work?

Goku's Danmaku is actually quite accurate. Plus with equal speed it'd be hard for him to dodge every single one.

No it wouldn't at all. AP and more would allow him to dodge with ease, and once he starts to dodge, his RE and RPL would kick in allowing Garou to quickly become overwhelmingly faster than Goku.

Garou has no way of dodging a city-continental range blast. It wouldn't even matter whether or not he could see it coming.

He can just go in the air..? Also, he could just deflect, redirect, or reflect it back to Goku.

That was a specific barrier, but not the only barrier he has. In the anime he can use his ki to create regular barriers, and in the manga he has recently done the same.

Garou can bypass his barrier with dura neg, allowing the hit to go through.

Plus can come up with new fighting styles to counter his opponent.

Literally Garou.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Verse equalization does not grant abilities. Garou cannot utilize ki without feats. This is fundamental vs rules.

 

[Phoenks]

Verse equalization does not grant abilities. Garou cannot utilize ki without feats. This is fundamental vs rules.

Fluffy.

Ki would be included in the flow of all energy, as ki is quite literally just the vital energy in an organism's body.

There is absolutely no reason it wouldn't just be an extension of Garou's cosmic awareness. He would immediately know how Ki functions and how to use it due to verse equalization.

Thus, with his level of skill and technique replicating, he should absolutely be able to mimic techniques that utilize it.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Fluffy.

Ki would be included in the flow of all energy, as ki is quite literally just the vital energy in an organism's body.

There is absolutely no reason it wouldn't just be an extension of Garou's cosmic awareness. He would immediately know how Ki functions and how to use it due to verse equalization.

Thus, with his level of skill and technique replicating, he would absolutely be able to mimic techniques that use it.

Stop downplaying Garou, please.

I'm not downplaying. It's just that chi as a supernatural power does not exist in opm. If it did then garou can copy it of course. But it doesn't and due to equalization, garou gets it for Goku's benefit. And by vs rules, garou cannot utilize it for abilities.
Also this is irrelevant because ki is restricted as well as monster hax.

 

[BOEGVELD]

Due to verse equalization, Ki would naturally be included in "The flow of all energy in the universe." So yes, he would be able to copy ki-related techniques.

Verse equalization. Once Garou sees it once, it's part of his toolkit. Garou would then bring all techniques he copies to new heights greater than the original user could achieve.

Literally everything falls under "the flow of all energy in the universe". That's, again, entering NLF waters. Plus, like Phoenks pointed out: OPM characters already have ki. But none of their techniques have been stated to be ki-related. Or at least not the ones Garou has copied, so yeah, more NLF.

And he has instinctive reactions outside of being asleep.

When has he used this? Though I think my point still stands: Garou has no control over this whatsoever, so this would not help him.

AP and more would allow him to dodge with ease, and once he starts to dodge, his RE and RPL would kick in allowing Garou to quickly become overwhelmingly faster than Goku.

What's ''AP and more''? Garou has nothing that would allow him to dodge hundreds to thousands of attacks just as fast as him. He could possibly use Portal Creation, but that's literally it.

He can just go in the air..? Also, he could just deflect, redirect, or reflect it back to Goku.

What...Goku's range goes beyond the ground. Also, when has Garou ever deflected, redirected or reflected energy/ki blasts?

Garou can bypass his barrier with dura neg, allowing the hit to go through.

Garou's Durability Negation is not that advanced..

 

[Phoenks]

I'm not downplaying. It's just that chi as a supernatural power does not exist in opm. If it did then garou can copy it of course.

Fluffy. Due to verse equalization, Dragon Ball Ki would exist in this fight and Garou's cosmic awareness would make him aware of and knowledgeable on it to an absurd degree. What is the difference? Also, it does exist in OPM.

"Garou has access to all of his skill feats from the manga and webcomic"

And if this is using the webcomic, then yeah Chi definitely already exists.

And by vs rules, garou cannot utilize it for abilities.
Also this is irrelevant because ki is restricted as well as monster hax.

What VS rules are you talking about? What...

 

[Bernkastelll]

Already NLF'ing Garou's PM. When has he even copied ki-related techniques?


This was due to his Instinctive Reaction. He has no control over this whatsoever, so yeah, he would still be affected.


Since when can you just portal your way out of sealing technique? Sounds like bs.



Goku's Danmaku is actually quite accurate. Plus with equal speed it'd be hard for him to dodge every single one. And Goku's range is insane. Garou has no way of dodging a city-continental range blast. It wouldn't even matter whether or not he could see it coming.


That was a specific barrier, but not the only barrier he has. In the anime he can use his ki to create regular barriers, and in the manga he has recently done the same.

Goku also has Deconstruction, Existence Erasure and (limited) Durability Negation. Plus can come up with new fighting styles to counter his opponent. This really shouldn't be a debate lol.

Literally everything falls under "the flow of all energy in the universe". That's, again, entering NLF waters. Plus, like Phoenks pointed out: OPM characters already have ki. But none of their techniques have been stated to be ki-related. Or at least not the ones Garou has copied, so yeah, more NLF.


When has he used this? Though I think my point still stands: Garou has no control over this whatsoever, so this would not help him.


What's ''AP and more''? Garou has nothing that would allow him to dodge hundreds to thousands of attacks just as fast as him. He could possibly use Portal Creation, but that's literally it.


What...Goku's range goes beyond the ground. Also, when has Garou ever deflected, redirected or reflected energy/ki blasts?


Garou's Durability Negation is not that advanced..

cope

 

[Phoenks]

Literally everything falls under "the flow of all energy in the universe". That's, again, entering NLF waters. Plus, like Phoenks pointed out: OPM characters already have ki. But none of their techniques have been stated to be ki-related. Or at least not the ones Garou has copied, so yeah, more NLF.

You are literally arguing that Vital Energy (Ki) isn't included in "The Flow of All Energy"

 

[Phoenks]

When has he used this? Though I think my point still stands: Garou has no control over this whatsoever, so this would not help him.

Dude, what are your arguments?

Nobody has "control" over their instinctive reactions. That's why they're called INSTINCTIVE reactions. Wtf?

It isn't a conscious thing. It happens atuomatically.