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User @Nullflowerblush compiled a list of Goku's showings and applications of ultra instinct and it's all really impressive skill feats and I thought it would be relevant to mention in this thread.
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Goku vs. Garou (Martial Arts Battle)
- Thread starter Kin201
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He has good skills via narration, statements, achievements. But honestly DB isn’t great at showing off skills, simple hand and leg movements are about it. Might just be me but the choreography isn’t it.
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Yeah I know. Goku has a lot of stuff, specially early on. Like I saw people posting Goku beating that undefeated martial artist in one of the tournaments but he just does that by overpowering him with a punch. Same with catching Korin, that's a feat of speed rather than skill. Mastering the Kamehameha at a glance is impressive but its also just an energy beam.
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I can see why you would say that for Z. But they don’t really bother with fancy stuff that much since we already know the characters are all skillful. Btw the cell stuff is just proof that Goku has gotten more skilled since he left earth, but the execution is funny ig.
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That's downplaying. He didn't simply over power his opponent, he viewed him as complete fodder not even worth mentioning and can beat people who outskill said opponent.
Korin is the same dude who can remain untagged by master martial artist for 3 years. He also identified and tagged Goku who was moving FTE and creating 8 after images in his perspective effortlessly, and Goku did it in only 3 days.
That "just a beam" is an even more complex technique than complete martial art styles. Roshi considers it his best technique and it took him 50 years to learn.
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Literally all he does is punch him. It doesn't matter how much hype the guy got punching someone isn't a skill feat.
That just means Korin is faster than those guys. Catching up to someone running isn't skill.
That just makes Roshi look really bad you know? After him we just keep running to people who can easily fire beams sometimes with no training at all. Same with flying, it starts as a complex technique and then becomes something everyone can do
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I vehemently disagree with this in particular
bro what?Kamehameha is a complex technique, why the false equivalency to a random energy blast?? Your example, is even fallacious because there are no multiple types of flight. It’s just one thing. Whereas there are so many types of “energy blasts”.
Please be critical about some of your analysis and don’t oversimply again. I know where you’re coming from but this is not it.
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I did not say punching him is a skill feat. This is actual downplay by ignoring the context which I have provided.
Not necessarily. But you think that keeping up with someone blitzing you with 8 after images and easily identifying and countering them is not a skill feat? Even four after images in OPM is considered insane, 10 is sonic's absolute peak and Goku just did 8 casually and korin was like "oh cool" and instantly retaliated. The context shows that korin was outskilling roshi.
No lmao, that's just a skill feat for everyone else. Someone already responded.
Vietthai96
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Actually, Goku vs Cell and SSJ2 Goku vs SSJ2 Vegeta did have some good martial art choreography, sadly it only for awhile before devolve back into simple punches and kicks. the new Super Hero movie also like that, Vegeta use some psuedo Wing Chun moves on Goku before going back to just punch and kick
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I kinda put the Kamehameha as more an energy or ability feat than a skill feat per-se. It's like Ichigo getting bankai which normally takes decades to get, which is the same for like Tsuna with DWF control, Naruto with Rasengan, ect.
Granted; those above actually trained and didn't just look and copy, but Goku also already had experience using Ki via Granpa Gohan's training iirc.
Granted; those above actually trained and didn't just look and copy, but Goku also already had experience using Ki via Granpa Gohan's training iirc.
ToughAsToenails20
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I say it's a skill feat because he still learned it. And tried to improve the "skill" as time progressed.
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Tried to? He created many variations of it, turn it into a homing attack (edit: manipulate its trajectory*), can shoot it from his feet. I think we all know he did improve it
ToughAsToenails20
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Tried to? He created many variations of it, turn it into a homing attack, can shoot it from his feet. I think we all know he did improve it
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What are Naruto’s rasengan feats?
- he can turn them to devil fr- I mean… create magnet release rasengan.
- He created the spirit bo- Odamarasengan
- Rasenshuriken
- kyuubi type stuff
Blah blah blah. Mid.
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I must say, this is a really well documented list of Goku's applications Ultra Instinct. UI Goku is so cool
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Definitely Naruto.
While Goku mastered Kamehameha, at the end of the day, every other Kamehameha he uses are the same but with more Ki obviously because he's gotten much stronger. Where as Naruto was able to introduce Wind Release into Rasengan, which is by no means a simple and easy feat, and also create Rasen Shuriken, and also introduce the Bijuu's Chakras into each Rasenshuriken.
Naruto is truly a master at what he knows best.
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Whatever
i rate application of skill rather than sheer numbers. Goku definitely has many Kamehameha variations, some of which includes a type that bends, can fire multiple simultaneously, can fire from one arm or his feet, while others are basically him boosting its power or mixing it with teleportation. Naruto has a rasengan that restrains movement, I think magnet release. And rasenshuriken.
So sure Naruto wins with his devil fruit looking, spirit bomb looking, rasengans due to its various applications aside blowing shit up. That’s cool but Goku isn’t far behind tho due to his sheer number of variations and flexibility in firing off the attack. I’m just waiting for someone to downplay it
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ToughAsToenails20
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-Naruto had the Giant Rasengan, which he just enlarged once he got stronger. Which is something any dbz character can do on a regular basis.
-Double Rasengan, cough cough triple Kamehameha cough.
-Rasenshuriken, okay this is actually good, I don't think Goku made his own unique version of the Kamehameha (I mean in the sense of the Rasengan going into the Rasenshuriken).
-Magnet Release Rasengan, uh, I don't know a Kamehameha to compare this to, the x10 Kamehameha?
-All those random Rasengans in that one scene vs Kaguya, again, literally have no idea what to compare these to.
-Super-Ultra-Big Ball Rasengan and Ultra-Big Ball Rasenshuriken... Super Kamehameha...? I don't know how to compare the Super Kamehameha to this. Naruto just made the Giant Rasengan bigger, Goku can make the Super Kamehameha bigger soooo...?
-Sidenote: Goku has the Kamehameha Charge, which is pretty cool. He also incorporated the Kamehameha within the Instant Transmission, which is also cool.
So in short, uh, Naruto made multiple variations of attacks? But a lot of it Goku just does regularly, and I don't blame him for not being able to make a "Lava Release: Ultra Super Kamehameha", the Kamehameha is just generated by ki. The Rasengan though is not only used with chakra but the wind element or, something, so of course Naruto is gonna fuse fire with it. Not much Goku can improve upon other than making it bigger, making multiples of it, or just fusing it with other attacks he knows.
ToughAsToenails20
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Oh yeah, I forgot about the Bending Kamehameha. And he can also configure the Kamehameha to make a flare of energy (talking about the Burst Kamehameha). And he can take apart the Kamehameha into spheres that burst like bombs. AND HE CAN-Whatever
i rate application of skill rather than sheer numbers. Goku definitely has many Kamehameha variations, some of which includes a type that bends, can fire multiple simultaneously, can fire from one arm or his feet, while others are basically him boosting its power or mixing it with teleportation. Naruto has a rasengan that restrains movement, I think magnet release. And rasenshuriken.
So sure Naruto wins with his devil fruit looking, spirit bomb looking, rasengans due to its various applications aside blowing shit up. That’s cool but Goku isn’t far behind tho due to his sheer number of variations and flexibility in firing off the attack. I’m just waiting for someone to downplay it
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Easily Naruto
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Kamehameha improvements are lack luster compared to rasengan.
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I guess it’s unanimous @Epiccheev
Everyone agrees
Everyone agrees
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Well.. almost unanimous.
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I'm interested in knowing if being skilled with KI automatically translates to being equally skilled with physical martial arts.
I was sure there wasn't a deep connection between the two and there were characters that were just naturally gifted with KI talent from birth or vise versa. I mean sure learning KI techniques may be harder than physical martial art techniques in principle but that's like saying, I don't know, learning how to pilot a spaceship is harder than learning to be a welder or something. Sure the former may be harder to learn but that doesn't mean a pilot could outdo a welder when it comes to welding. I'm sure a better and more appropriate better comparison exists but you get the jist.
What makes KI skill feats so impressive in a battle of physical skill feats?
I was sure there wasn't a deep connection between the two and there were characters that were just naturally gifted with KI talent from birth or vise versa. I mean sure learning KI techniques may be harder than physical martial art techniques in principle but that's like saying, I don't know, learning how to pilot a spaceship is harder than learning to be a welder or something. Sure the former may be harder to learn but that doesn't mean a pilot could outdo a welder when it comes to welding. I'm sure a better and more appropriate better comparison exists but you get the jist.
What makes KI skill feats so impressive in a battle of physical skill feats?
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Ki techniques are considered even more impressive and difficult to learn than regular martial arts techniques because they are martial arts techniques, and the reason is that characters who can easily learn phgsical martial art styles struggle with ki based techniques. So it's a technique copying skill feat because copying something more intricate means you are more intelligent.
Vietthai96
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Ki is when you reaching supernatural realm, so kinda hard to measure in skill aspect. But still Ki is life-force, vital energy, learn to generate and manipulate it mean you so skill that you emit your life out as energy, kinda
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I still can't see the correlation. Is this a canon-stated reason or sorta just inferred from a talented martial artist in the series being incapable of/having a hard time grasping Ki?
Sure KI manipulation in general is a martial arts technique but only in fantasy terms. There is a sharp difference between physically punching, kicking, grappling, etc your opponent and generating bodily spiritual energy to blast an opponent or whatever. There are specializations within physical martial arts itself with one person may be proficient in BJJ and another in boxing or armed and unarmed martial arts...people can be proficient in unarmed or a particular style but have a hard time learning others. Add in KI and it's on a completely different branch that it pretty much is only martial arts by technicality.
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It is inferred.
Yes there is a difference between punch kick grapple and vomiting out planet busting laser beams. However that's not the point. The skill feat here is a technique copying and martial art talent skill feat.
ToughAsToenails20
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I think you misunderstand. We're not saying they are similar, of course punching someone and blasting a bomb from your hand are completely different. We're saying that blasting a bomb from your hand is obviously a more complex and difficult skill to learn. That's why we use it as a skill feat or to determine the skill of a character. Plus, if a character can efficiently combine martial arts and energy together to make a new fighting style, that's even more impressive.
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Explain the point
ToughAsToenails20
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Re-read what he just said.
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So it's a skill feat but not one that translates to learning physical martial arts.
That seems more in line with an actual show of skill.
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Still doesn't look like anything without an actual explanation.
ToughAsToenails20
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Not directly. Just used to gauge a person's skill.
Is that not... a feat...? It's a show of skill that's newly acquired. Idk, maybe I'm wrong.
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Ki techniques require more skill and training to achieve by the same characters that consider learning physical martial art fighting styles trivial.
Ki techniques are fundamentally martial art techniques, you have to actually learn martial arts to be able to utilize ki.
This means effortlessly copying ki moves is a feat that shows skill in copying powers that are even more complex than physical martial art styles.
You can think of it like, someone can easily solve calculus problems, so by default they will easily be able to learn and solve middle school math, despite middle school math and calculus not being the same thing.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there numerous characters in the series that have KI manipulation and skill but don't know martial arts?
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Such as pan. Those ones are the ones who have a preponderance of martial arts talent. In fact, Goku was like this when he learned the kamehameha.
ToughAsToenails20
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Frieza is a painfully good example. But characters like him have access to ki without incorporating it into martial arts. The majority though have access to ki while incorporating it into martial arts. Why? Who knows.
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