Goku vs. Garou (Martial Arts Battle)

[Scython]

Garou's dura neg isn't going to work on goku. He has er resistance. There's also goku's body being able to become automatically sturdier as necessary. Ui also protect goku's vitals and he's able to shift his vitals. There's also his ki aura barrier and the barrier he used against gas. He also physically blocked hits intangible attacks. Equalized energies or not garou hasn't shown copying anything ki related nor has he shown copying anything god ki related. Which is what goku has and uses now. He wouldn't even be able to sense goku due to him having god ki. Goku's also an alien and garou hasn't been shown to copy aliens or the abilities of one. Especially one who uses ki or in goku's case god ki.

 

[Phoenks]

Equalized energies or not garou hasn't shown copying anything ki related nor has he shown copying anything god ki related. Which is what goku has and uses now. He wouldn't even be able to sense goku due to him having god ki.

That doesn't really matter since these attacks aren't very complex at all and Garou has copied things he previously wasn't shown to have copied before. Even Goku can copy them with a glance. Most Ki attacks are just energy blasts. I see no reason Garou, who has extraordinary genius fighting intellect and probably nigh-omniscient knowledge on energy, wouldn't be able to replicate them.

Garou has Cosmic Awareness. Unless Goku has proof he can't be sensed by people with CA, Garou would be able to sense him.

 

[BOEGVELD]

You are literally arguing that Vital Energy (Ki) isn't included in "The Flow of All Energy"

Literally everything falls under "the flow of all energy in the universe".

All you have to do is read. But, again, if he's not shown to be able to copy ki-related then there's no reason to assume he can. Arguing he could copy it because it's energy within the universe is nothing but a NLF. It's not complicated.

Nobody has "control" over their instinctive reactions.

Then there's no reason to bring it up as rebuttal.

 

[Phoenks]

All you have to do is read. But, again, if he's not shown to be able to copy ki-related then there's no reason to assume he can. Arguing he could copy it because it's energy within the universe is nothing but a NLF. It's not complicated.

This is literally what you're saying: "Arguing that Garou could copy energy attacks because he has full knowledge on the function and flow of all energy, the ability to replicate phenomena in the universe, and absolutely absurd technique mimicry that extends to supernatural powers and energies is NLF"


Ki attacks are just special energy attacks. I see no reason to think Garou copying them is NLF.

 

[Scython]

That doesn't really matter since these attacks aren't very complex at all and Garou has copied things he previously wasn't shown to have copied before. Even Goku can copy them with a glance. Most Ki attacks are just energy blasts. I see no reason Garou, who has extraordinary genius fighting intellect and probably nigh-omniscient knowledge on energy, wouldn't be able to replicate them.

Garou has Cosmic Awareness. Unless Goku has proof he can't be sensed by people with CA, Garou would be able to sense him.

Garou hasn't shown being able to copy ki attacks. And god ki something that goku uses isn't something that exists in opm. Goku's also an alien and garou hasn't copied powers and abilities from an alien and from one that uses god ki or just regular ki. Garou's copied from all humans none of which have or use ki or in goku's case god ki. Goku also doesn't exist in garou's universe. Neither does saiyans, gods of destruction, angels and what was already mentioned god ki. Goku uses god ki. Ui is not just a technique of gods of destructions it's also one of the angels. Garou doesn't have ki or god ki. 73 moro someone with god ki tried to copy ui and look at what happened to him.

 

[Kachon123]

What's ''AP and more''? Garou has nothing that would allow him to dodge hundreds to thousands of attacks just as fast as him. He could possibly use Portal Creation, but that's literally it.

Show a scan of Goku having up to thousands of attacks danmaku.

Garou's feats against Danmaku (there are more):

Spoiler: Garou Danmaku Feats

 

[Scython]

Show a scan of Goku having up to thousands of attacks danmaku.

Garou's feats against Danmaku (there are more):

Spoiler: Garou Danmaku Feats

those don't compare to the exchange omen goku and jiren had in the Top when omen goku was standing on that rock. Also goku's shockwaves threatened the universe. He also generated a shockwave that shook planet earth. I know it's equal stats but the range of the shockwaves and the force of them is what's impressive. Now imagine that amount of force and range being focused on garou in a danmaku fashion.

 

[Kachon123]

those don't compare to the exchange omen goku and jiren had in the Top when omen goku was standing on that rock. Also goku's shockwaves threatened the universe. He also generated a shockwave that shook planet earth. I know it's equal stats but the range of the shockwaves and the force of them is what's impressive. Now imagine that amount of force and range being focused on garou in a danmaku fashion.

1. Show a clip of Goku on "that rock"
2. Goku's shockwaves would just be countered with Garou's. Once Garou gets hit with attacks by Goku, his RE would kick in, allowing him to adapt to Goku's style and send his won shockwaves with range.
3. The range doesn't matter when they can be neutralized.

 

[Epiccheev]

I recalled Krillin using Destructo Disk Danmaku vs Freeza, but then noticed it seemed way more impressive when i was younger.


2:15

 

[Scython]

1. Show a clip of Goku on "that rock"
2. Goku's shockwaves would just be countered with Garou's. Once Garou gets hit with attacks by Goku, his RE would kick in, allowing him to adapt to Goku's style and send his won shockwaves with range.
3. The range doesn't matter when they can be neutralized.

Look up omen goku vs jiren. Their 2nd fight. Garou got overwhelmed by saitama's normal consecutive punches. Even after copying saitama who hasn't shown the range and force comparable or above goku's shockwaves in those two instances mentioned. Garou gets hit by goku's danmaku and he's not getting out of it. Or overcoming it. Especially if he's caught of guard. Which goku could do with his invisible eye blast or with IT if he can use that. There's also the fact that garou would only be damaging himself hitting goku. If he's able to bypass ui to land anything.

 

[Scython]

I recalled Krillin using Destructo Disk Danmaku vs Freeza, but then noticed it seemed way more impressive when i was younger.


2:15

The destructo disk can be controlled.

 

[Kachon123]

Look up omen goku vs jiren. Their 2nd fight.

Send the clip.

Garou got overwhelmed by saitama's normal consecutive punches.

Saitama is extremely casually extremely faster that Garou and its not even close. Despite that, Garou's AP was able to dodge and counter his attacks. Goku and Saitama have equal stats in this match. They are not the same at all.

Even after copying saitama who hasn't shown the range and force comparable or above goku's shockwaves in those two instances mentioned.

What? How does Garou copying Saitama mean he can't copy Goku's range?

Garou gets hit by goku's danmaku and he's not getting out of it. Or overcoming it.

As it's equal stats, Garou's shockwaves can defend against it. Even if he didn't use his own shockwaves. He can use Mode: Goku, and do something similar to this.

Especially if he's caught of guard.

Why the hell would he be off guard? Even in the off chance that he would be, Instinctive Reaction would cover that.

Which goku could do with his invisible eye blast or with IT if he can use that.

Instinctive Reaction dodges his eye blasts.

There's also the fact that garou would only be damaging himself hitting goku

Stop being vague and explain. It's not that hard. I don't understand how someone can be so bad at debating.

 

[DTG499]

Hand-to-hand combat only.

Goku cannot use ki in any way, shape, or form

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Fluffy. Due to verse equalization, Dragon Ball Ki would exist in this fight and Garou's cosmic awareness would make him aware of and knowledgeable on it to an absurd degree. What is the difference? Also, it does exist in OPM.

"Garou has access to all of his skill feats from the manga and webcomic"

And if this is using the webcomic, then yeah Chi definitely already exists.


What VS rules are you talking about? What...

I understand what you mean, however it's literally against verse equalization rules.

For example, for naruto genjutsu to work, the target needs to have chakra and a chakra network. Verse equalization makes it so genjutsu works on people that don't have that provided that they poses energy that have similar qualities to chakra (which is physical and spiritual energy just like chi).
However just because the opposition now has a chakra network for genjutsu does not mean the man can start pulling out fire jutsu because vs rules prohibit the gaining of abilities via equalization.
If the chi in opm works similar to db's then it's plausible yes. However it's irrelevant in this fight because ki and hax is disabled.

 

[DTG499]

Let’s not forget that the OP said this

 

[DTG499]

Honestly the OP should let Goku use Ki because garou would stomp him without it

 

[Scython]

Send the clip.

Saitama is extremely casually extremely faster that Garou and its not even close. Despite that, Garou's AP was able to dodge and counter his attacks. Goku and Saitama have equal stats in this match. They are not the same at all.

What? How does Garou copying Saitama mean he can't copy Goku's range?


As it's equal stats, Garou's shockwaves can defend against it. Even if he didn't use his own shockwaves. He can use Mode: Goku, and do something similar to this.

Why the hell would he be off guard? Even in the off chance that he would be, Instinctive Reaction would cover that.

Instinctive Reaction dodges his eye blasts.

Stop being vague and explain. It's not that hard. I don't understand how someone can be so bad at debating.

Look it up. It's easy to find. Garou literally copied saitama's power and normal consecutive punches and they both landed on each other. Because saitama's attacks don't have comparable or higher range than goku's. Meaning bigger aoe. Show garou's mode working on an alien or someone from a different planet than his. It would be an invisible shockwave attack. Something garou hasn't been shown to have a defense against. Garou gets hit with an invisible attack which will catch him off guard allowing goku to use danmaku on him. Garou also hasn't fought or combated goku's ui. Whereas goku has fought angel moro, trained with an angel in training and is being trained by an angel. All who have ui.

 

[Scython]

Honestly the OP should let Goku use Ki because garou would stomp him without it

if it's literally just h2h than garou wouldn't. Goku's more physically imposing than garou. And it you give goku ui but he can't use ki garou would get demolished. Them being 2 people just throwing hands would result in garou getting a beat down by goku. Allowing ki would be over the top. Same if you allow ui.

 

[DTG499]

The idea that someone with power mimicry and instinctive reaction. Wouldn’t be able to copy ultra instinct is absurd.

NLF argues that you can’t do everything with your ability but seems you guys are using NLF to argue that garou can’t do anything at all with his power mimicry.

This idea that energy and Ki are two wildly different things is false. The Ki manipulation page definition states that it’s the manipulation of vital energy. If you go the energy manipulation page you’ll see that dragon ball characters are listed. Ki and energy are almost identical.

 

[DTG499]

if it's literally just h2h than garou wouldn't. Goku's more physically imposing than garou. And it you give goku ui but he can't use ki garou would get demolished. Them being 2 people just throwing hands would result in garou getting a beat down by goku. Allowing ki would be over the top. Same if you allow ui.

More physically imposing? Stats are equal

 

[Scython]

More physically imposing? Stats are equal

Like build. It this is literally just 2 people throwing hands and that's it then I don't see how garou could win against goku. Someone who's bigger and because of that could inflict more damage and take more. As opposed to garou who even though has muscles has a slimmer build.

 

[DTG499]

Like build. It this is literally just 2 people throwing hands and that's it then I don't see how garou could win against goku. Someone who's bigger and because of that could inflict more damage and take more. As opposed to garou who even though has muscles has a slimmer build.

They are same size. Literally both 5’7 and 150 pounds

 

[Bernkastelll]

what a bad argument wtf

 

[Kachon123]

Garou is way better at pure h2h combat than Goku.


Any attack Goku dishes at Garou gets put back on him with 2x the damage plus dura neg that would instantly kill Goku.

 

[DTG499]

No wait I just search this up garou has 15 pounds and a 3 inch height advantage on Goku hahahaha

 

[Kachon123]

Goku would not start out with UI off the bat unless Garou proves to be challenging somewhat.

Garou on the otherhand would literally kill Goku any chance he gets. He would instantly go for overwhelming him with dura neg barrages.

 

[DTG499]

Garou has non energy based dura neg attacks that Goku has no resistance to. If garou starts blasting those Goku is done.

 

[Scython]

The idea that someone with power mimicry and instinctive reaction. Wouldn’t be able to copy ultra instinct is absurd.

NLF argues that you can’t do everything with your ability but seems you guys are using NLF to argue that garou can’t do anything at all with his power mimicry.

This idea that energy and Ki are two wildly different things is false. The Ki manipulation page definition states that it’s the manipulation of vital energy. If you go the energy manipulation page you’ll see that dragon ball characters are listed. Ki and energy are almost identical.

Garou doesn't have god ki. Garou had to be composite because the concept of ki doesn't exist in one of the opm continuity's. God ki exists in neither. Garou also hasn't shown copying ki related attacks. Or attacks that require god ki to use. Or ki in general. Ui is a god technique. Garou doesn't meet the requirements needed to use it. Nor has he shown he can copy a technique like that. And if you like 73 moro and what happened to him after he tried to copy ui garou would end up worse than him. Ui in the anime made goku explode on inside due to him overusing it and his lack of experience and both goku and moro have god ki.

No wait I just search this up garou has 15 pounds and a 3 inch height advantage on Goku hahahaha

Goku looks more buff to me. Especially if you look at human garou. But it I'm wrong then I'm wrong.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

These people forgot that this isn't a vs match but a martial arts battle and only h2h is allowed. Garou doesn't have any of his powers either except ones that come purely from martial arts. All his monster abilities and flow of energy copy hax is restricted by the OP.

Also ultra instinct can't be copied by garou as it requires god ki which you can't argue garou has. It's also a far more advanced technique than the martial arts techniques that garou has copied.

 

[Scython]

Goku would not start out with UI off the bat unless Garou proves to be challenging somewhat.

Garou on the otherhand would literally kill Goku any chance he gets. He would instantly go for overwhelming him with dura neg barrages.

goku starts in ui garou goes to attack. Goku stands there like he did against moro. Garou then hits goku and feels whatever limb he used to attack him with break. Goku then proceeds to beat him down.

 

[BOEGVELD]

Show a scan of Goku having up to thousands of attacks danmaku.

In the manga it's obviously not as much, but he does scale to Buu and Zamasu and should have better than ki control than them. Their danmaku is very high and accurate.

Garou's feats against Danmaku (there are more):

None of these qualify for Danmaku, nor are they as accurate as Goku's attacks.

This is literally what you're saying: "Arguing that Garou could copy energy attacks because he has full knowledge on the function and flow of all energy, the ability to replicate phenomena in the universe, and absolutely absurd technique mimicry that extends to supernatural powers and energies is NLF"

Besides the fact that he wouldn't really know, because he doesn't really have knowledge on other verses (unless merging series together is now a thing). But we're also not discussing simple ki blasts, but abilities that require a lot of control, and like IT, ki-sensing as well. Or UI, that does not only require God-ki, but a body trained to withstand the stress of the technique. Assuming he can copy abilities with a system he's never worked with, on arguably another level of previous abilities he's copied, yeah, is indeed a NLF.

 

[BOEGVELD]

Any attack Goku dishes at Garou gets put back on him with 2x the damage plus dura neg that would instantly kill Goku.

How do you manage to NLF anything Garou does, lmao.

 

[Phoenks]

Btw when are votes being counted? I vote Garou FRA.

 

[Kachon123]

All his monster abilities and flow of energy copy hax

His copying isn't restricted.

 

[Phoenks]

No wait I just search this up garou has 15 pounds and a 3 inch height advantage on Goku hahahaha

To be completely fair, the official weights for DB characters are absolute bullshit. They don't reflect their actual physiques at all.

 

[DTG499]

How do you manage to NLF anything Garou does, lmao.

Those are explicit statements on how the abilities work

 

[Scython]

ui is a deal sealer. That being allowed means garou loses.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Btw when are votes being counted? I vote Garou FRA.

why are we voting if these things arent valid to go to their orofiles lol

 

[Phoenks]

why are we voting if these things arent valid to go to their orofiles lol

To keep score of whose currently winning this debate.

 

[Bernkastelll]

ok i vote garou fra