Goku and Jiren minor WoV additions

[God900]

Shake - tremble or vibrate
Vibrate - move or cause to move continuously and rapidly to and fro.
This blanent proof, like I said, debunk the English language, they moved non existence.

"They moved into non existance".

No buddy, they didn't. They didn't directly shown harm/interact with it (touch It, manipulate, warp it), in fact, you have to prove if they even would be able to touch nothingness. And shaking something isn't any kind of harm.

Show me a Ki blast of Jiren making contact with the WoV. Show me any of his punches making contact with the WoV.

Again, you are using the burden proof fallacy, but It won't work.

If you warp someone in the physical realm, can they still move around and act normally without other powers? No, why would it be different for people with nep.

They can still use their Hax buddy, and changing color isn't any kind of harm, like would be destroying it, manipulate it, or outright erase it.

The point is you're trying to say since goku and jiren didn't do anything later. But hakai itself was shown not affecting the environment. You're logic would mean anyone who blew up a universe for example, that launched an attack that didn't blow up a city. Would not be universal and its contradiction, you need to be logically consistent.

No, I didn't, what are you talking about??.
Hakai energy didn't directly shown warping the environment with it's aura, untill Toppo had the brilliant idea to lounch it at the void. In which we could see how the Hakai energy warped the sky.

And you too have to be logically consistent, becouse cases like when SSG Goku and Beerus were going to fight serious (well at least Goku) they went up on the space, becouse they knew that the Earth wouldn't handle for much long their battle. And also, their punches were going to destroy the universe, can you prove there that they were using their Ki control at it's max?.

You never proved he was not controlling his ki. Actually address this, it was never stated. The burden of proof is on you.

And can you prove Jiren was?..., was it even stated that he was controling and holding back himself???

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

What are we discussing right now?

 

[God900]

What are we discussing right now?

If Jiren has really NPI for "Shaking the WoV".

 

[BoastJr]

NEP Type 1 NPI

 

[Orioreeem]

So what is being proposed? Void manipulation or npi?

 

[God900]

So what is being proposed? Void manipulation or npi?

Nothing, we are still debating, but by the looks of it, is either Limited NPI (not combat applicable) or outright Void manipulation (which would also be not combat applicable like Toppo's case).

 

[God900]

@AKM sama @DarkDragonMedeus We need more of your input. As you guys are one of the most knowledgeable members of DB Verse, your opinion on this matter would be appreciated.
And if It can be possible, make a decision about this.
You guys can read the arguments through the thread and see wherever decision we should make about this.

 

[ArmBill]

"They moved into non existance".

No buddy, they didn't. They didn't directly shown harm/interact with it (touch It, manipulate, warp it), in fact, you have to prove if they even would be able to touch nothingness. And shaking something isn't any kind of harm.

Show me a Ki blast of Jiren making contact with the WoV. Show me any of his punches making contact with the WoV.

Again, you are using the burden proof fallacy, but It won't work.

Bruhhhhhhh, do you not understand the English language.

Shake means to interact with something. Instead of just saying no, debunk these definitions.

Shake - tremble or vibrate Vibrate - move or cause to move continuously and rapidly to and from.

interact - act in such a way as to have an effect on another; act reciprocally.

Move- change position. interact - act in such a way as to have an effect on another; act reciprocally.
effect - a change which is a result or consequence of an action or other cause.

They can still use their Hax buddy, and changing color isn't any kind of harm, like would be destroying it, manipulate it, or outright erase it.

If you warp something you're are manipulating. We even see the wov get distorted and bend when he does the hakai.

No, I didn't, what are you talking about??.
Hakai energy didn't directly shown warping the environment with it's aura, untill Toppo had the brilliant idea to lounch it at the void. In which we could see how the Hakai energy warped the sky.

Exactly my point, the hakai didn't warp all the time.

And you too have to be logically consistent, becouse cases like when SSG Goku and Beerus were going to fight serious (well at least Goku) they went up on the space, becouse they knew that the Earth wouldn't handle for much long their battle. And also, their punches were going to destroy the universe, can you prove there that they were using their Ki control at it's max?.

The reason the shockwaves even happened is goku wasn't well aquantied to his power yet, which is why the shockwaves happened. He eventually controlled his power and clashed with Beerus without making shockwaves. He was trying and eventually did use ki control, go to episode 12 it states all this.

And can you prove Jiren was?..., was it even stated that he was controling and holding back himself???

You made the claim he was not using ki control the burden of proof is on you. Nothing suggests he wasn't controlling it, if he didn't the environment would be erased, but it was still around. Plus jiren did try to kill the u7 people, but was it even stated he was trying to kill goku? But anyways, just because someone is angry dosen't mean they're not using ki control.

 

[BoastJr]

Tbh I dont think they could get void manipulation (its non combat applicable and could be indexed as limited) , other then that I am neutral on NEP NPI Type 1 now.

 

[ArmBill]

I dont mind what is listed. However, I feel NPI is more appropriate and just say (Shook the world of void which is non existence).

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Well both goku and jiren shook the world of void which was stated and shown multiple times. The world of void is described as eternal nothingness void of time and space. Shaking it with their ki should be both void manipulation and non physical interaction since their ki can interact with a void of nothing .

 

[ArmBill]

Yeah, unless someone disagrees with the English language. They did indeed interact with nothingness.

 

[AKM sama]

This thread really has some weird and stupid arguments I've seen in a while, if I am going to be blunt.

The WoV has nothing in it. But the WoV itself is something. When Elder Kai said that the WoV itself is shaking, that's what he meant. He didn't mean Goku was shaking the nothingness of the void. Something like that would require direct evidence or a statement that says "Goku is literally shaking the nothingness of the void". Again, you can have a big container filled with nothing and you can still shake said container, even if there are no contents inside to shake. Not to mention that WoV is not accepted as a real void, it has both space and time.

Sorry, but I am closing this.