God Tier Hazbin Hotel Revisions

[TheOrangeGuy09]

1: that Charlie has only ever been in Sinner City

What are other cities? Also both in comics and in the show she is in Pentagram City.

2: that she wasn't using flowery language or being hyperbolic

Since it’s consistent, it’s fine.

A snowy area on the Pride Ring. We can assume Stolas' mansion overviews IMP City through context clues so I'm not counting his.

Isn’t a mansion just one building?

Should tell you that the billion statement is hyperbolic or flowery considering we see the size of the city and its not even the size of a decent town! I'm fine with using a dense city from IRL because that would make the overpopulation problem relevant without trying to argue that you're stuffing a billion people in a small town and claiming that the streets don't look like a stuffed protest 24/7.

I think I made it clear that even CGM agreed that small town size is absurd, so he accepted the population number ends.

That have been getting offed for population control for damn near just as long.

Millions of souls was stated for just as long. Also it is implied that Exterminations started just 7 years ago.

It's mostly both Sera not wanting to risk an uprising and there being an excuse to blow out of proportion

I don’t see how this answers why Charlie believes in it, as she could have used that as an argument to stop Exterminations. Also, where does it say she is exactly wrong?

How is Vox getting angry and causing a blackout equal to him 'absorbing everything'

he's linked to the entire area's electricity i see, but theres no solid proof of him absorbing it all, its likely he just got mad and severed his connection in the process.#

What Reaper said.

Also Adam literally said 'You think you're tough shit?', not actually thinking he's tough. It was obvious sarcasm, as we see Adam casually destroy Alastor when he got slightly serious lmao.

Are all Adam wankers made in the same factory? Already addressed in the thread, read or leave.

Plus if we look at the leaks...Alastor aint all that.

And where the leaks ******* say that? Yeah, he is woman’s slave and Alastor is about to become the worst written version of himself in the upcoming season (if they don’t change the plot), but powerwise he is still as powerful (in Season 1/Pilot), just with side help.

Charlie doesnt know her own power either

Enough for her to be sure she can match Adam.

but even if she thinks Alastor is the best option, its likely due to her lack of combat experience since she chooses not to fight

So she sends her close friend to death just because she sucks at fighting despite later being confident she can fight Adam. Great logic, Alastor downplayers! Appreciated.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

We see him having some electricity, but thats not enough to say the blackout was cause he absorbed the entirety
Thats not how blackouts, or electric circuitry for that matter works.

Vox is obv wired to everything, but it doesnt require him absorbing ALL that electricity for him to cause a blackout

The areas were getting turned off one by one the same amount of time as Vox was gltiching. Regular blackout would just turn everything off in the same moment, this case is only possible in absorption.

 

[DaReaperMan]

What are other cities? Also both in comics and in the show she is in Pentagram City.

Pride Ring is the entire surface of hell, so yeah, not everyone has to be in that one city

Since it’s consistent, it’s fine.

no, it really isn't. Its a one-off statement that could be implying the entire sinner population of the Pride Ring and not just one city... or you know, a billion people spread across the surface of a planet and not all stuffed in what we see as a town-sized city!

Isn’t a mansion just one building?

It's also in an area of the Pride Ring we haven't seen yet outside of that, and the only other mansion from a Goetia we see overlooks a major city.

I think I made it clear that even CGM agreed that small town size is absurd, so he accepted the population number ends.

However that small town size is what is shown, unless we are so desperate for big number that we're going to be arguing with what is shown in the source material?

Millions of souls was stated for just as long

Which is a lot more reasonable to stuff into a single city than a billion, when we see the city's size.

Also it is implied that Exterminations started just 7 years ago.

When?

I don’t see how this answers why Charlie believes in it, as she could have used that as an argument to stop Exterminations.

because there is a problem, it's just being overblown to justify the real reason for the Exterminations, AKA Sera not wanting to risk an uprising.

Also, where does it say she is exactly wrong?

Show me the stuffed streets orange, since you're so dead set on arguing they're all in a single city that we see the size of, show me the streets.

 

[Homie890]

woman’s slave and Alastor is about to become the worst written version of himself in the upcoming season (if they don’t change the plot), but powerwise he is still as powerful (in Season 1/Pilot), just with side help.

Can you explain?
(Note:The censored comment contain spoilers, read at your own risk)

 

[Jinx666]

Alastor and close friend is crazy. She cant get a read on him.
Hes strong in Overlord terms, but Charlie is still far stronger than he is, just extremely lacking in experience and power, and that also equates to her judgement. She still might have lost to Adam without Lucifer

Anyway disagreeing with the upgrades

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Pride Ring is the entire surface of hell, so yeah, not everyone has to be in that one city

Could ya show other cities already?

no, it really isn't. Its a one-off statement that could be implying the entire sinner population of the Pride Ring and not just one city... or you know, a billion people spread across the surface of a planet and not all stuffed in what we see

Provide any other known city where we see Sinners, since as I checked the shown ones there are all Hellborns.

a town-sized city!

Pentagram City is less than a kilometer… makes sense!

It's also in an area of the Pride Ring we haven't seen yet outside of that, and the only other mansion from a Goetia we see overlooks a major city.

So, no proof that there are Sinners there, only Hellborns.

However that small town size is what is shown, unless we are so desperate for big number that we're going to be arguing with what is shown in the source material?

So, if they give you a map of a continent which makes it smaller than Hawaii, you are gonna take that and not use common sense? I understand controversy — I do not, however, going against logic.

Which is a lot more reasonable to stuff into a single city than a billion, when we see the city's size.

Less than a kilometer wide major city makes far less sense for a place where worst of humanity has been stacked for years.

When?

There was a poster that hinted that Lilith was doing a rebel against Heaven and since she powered demons and was in charge of Hell, and she disappeared 7 years ago and due to that, Heaven was afraid against rebellions. Sera said “they were preparing a rebellion”.
Also consistent with the fact that nobody got to know about Exterminations despite Adam giving it away to the public the first worst moment he got. 7 years male more sense than billions.

because there is a problem, it's just being overblown to justify the real reason for the Exterminations, AKA Sera not wanting to risk an uprising.

Charlie knows it though. She says it in literally the first episode.

Show me the stuffed streets orange, since you're so dead set on arguing they're all in a single city that we see the size of, show me the streets.

We don’t really see Pentagram City streets much, only in comic we see a good picture. Also, again, it can be that the city is large.

Alastor and close friend is crazy.

“Is crazy” is not a proper counterargument against my arguments. Like at all.

Anyway disagreeing with the upgrades

So only on them, and on everything else you don’t give a shit. Although couldn’t expect less.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I love how 90% of Orange's arguments against Sinners being spread out are "W-well, this doesn't count!" When there's not a single statement that they're all in Pentagram City, and we see Sinners outside of it.

Frankly, just the fact that everyone who disagrees is an Alastor downplayer and an Adam wanker tells me everything I need to know. I'll come back when the bias clears up, until then, enjoy your two mid villains full of wasted potential.

 

[Jinx666]

So only on them, and on everything else you don’t give a shit. Although couldn’t expect less.

Dont be rude? I disagree with it all, you're grasping at way too many straws with these arguments

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Dont be rude? I disagree with it all, you're grasping at way too many straws with these arguments

While I disagree with orange. Your not much better dude. You said “alastor ain’t allat” as if that’s evidence.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Also didn’t vizie say that vox’s full demon form is a blackout. That is probably what the scene was

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I love how 90% of Orange's arguments against Sinners being spread out are "W-well, this doesn't count!" When there's not a single statement that they're all in Pentagram City, and we see Sinners outside of it.

Almost all Overlords at conference being shown in Pentagram City:

Frankly, just the fact that everyone who disagrees is an Alastor downplayer and an Adam wanker tells me everything I need to know. I'll come back when the bias clears up, until then, enjoy your two mid villains full of wasted potential.

Everyone? Just two people: Shion and Jinx. And Shion outright said “if Adam becomes weak, I disagree, but if he’s still stronk then fine”. Jinx just came to disagree with Alastor upgrade part, repeated the same thing that Shion said that I debunked long time ago, and he didn’t answer to any of my arguments. His only new argument is “leaks say Alastor is not all that”, and he doesn’t elaborate nor the leaks have anything actually to do with Season 1 power system…


Judge for yourself.

 

[Jinx666]

While I disagree with orange. Your not much better dude. You said “alastor ain’t allat” as if that’s evidence.

I didnt say that as evidence whatsoever? He just obv shouldnt scale to Charlie, or an actual Adam? And Adam clearly one shot the dude once he got serious like?

Season 2 is only going downhill for him, the series has genuinely proved that he aint all that.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I didnt say that as evidence whatsoever? He just obv shouldnt scale to Charlie, or an actual Adam?

“Obv” appeal to increduility.

And Adam clearly one shot the dude once he got serious like?

Via AWs.

Season 2 is only going downhill for him, the series has genuinely proved that he aint all that.

Without his cane, yes, he is Blitzo’s victim. He is going to become the worst written version of himself in Season 2, I already agreed with that.

 

[Homie890]

I didnt say that as evidence whatsoever? He just obv shouldnt scale to Charlie, or an actual Adam? And Adam clearly one shot the dude once he got serious like?

Season 2 is only going downhill for him, the series has genuinely proved that he aint all that.

Can you explain what is going downhill for him?

 

[Jinx666]

Can you explain what is going downhill for him?

the leaks We find out who hes owned by

 

[Jinx666]

“Obv” appeal to increduility.

Idk what this is meant to mean

Via AWs.

Idk what you mean by 'AWs' but err...yeah, Adam gets serious the second he realises Alastor isnt as easy to beat as a rando demon, but easily oneshots him and the source of his power with very little effort.
Adam is clearly portrayed as hugely out of practice (hence the fat), and the exchange was pretty much him having to work during what he considers his free time. The second he stopped being casual, Alastor gets folded

 

[Homie890]

Idk what this is meant to mean

Idk what you mean by 'AWs' but err...yeah, Adam gets serious the second he realises Alastor isnt as easy to beat as a rando demon, but easily oneshots him and the source of his power with very little effort.
Adam is clearly portrayed as hugely out of practice (hence the fat), and the exchange was pretty much him having to work during what he considers his free time. The second he stopped being casual, Alastor gets folded

aw is angelic weaponry.

 

[Homie890]

the leaks We find out who hes owned by

So the thing you are saying to me is... that the strongest overlord, is an slave to some other character?

 

[Jinx666]

Pretty sure Alastor had his cane broken by a light beam

Even if its Angelic weaponry, i dont see why that shouldnt also count towards Adams AP (Since he already is an angel)

 

[Jinx666]

So the thing you are saying to me is... that the strongest overlord, is an slave to some other character?

I mean we already knew this was the case, but yeah

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Pretty sure Alastor had his cane broken by a light beam

He himself was one-shot by axe though.

Even if its Angelic weaponry, i dont see why that shouldnt also count towards Adams AP (Since he already is an angel)

Read the OP.

 

[Jinx666]

Why would Alastor scale to serious Adam exactly? The AW were cheats so that Overlords can harm him, they dont have that power on their own aside from continuity errors

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Why would Alastor scale to serious Adam exactly?

Because he harmed him? Read the OP.

The AW were cheats so that Overlords can harm him, they dont have that power on their own aside from continuity errors

What?

 

[Jinx666]

Because he harmed him? Read the OP.

Yeah i read your OP before i got here. Alastor is clearly portrayed as beneath Adam when he actually gets serious.

Adam calling him 'tough shit' is NOT an actual compliment. Its a sarcastic remark. The show does everything in its power to show that Alastor gets bodied the second Adam actually kicks out anything that matters so no, he definitely shouldnt scale

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Yeah i read your OP before i got here.

Then stop acting as if you didn’t.

Alastor is clearly portrayed as beneath Adam when he actually gets serious.

No? When Adam is serious, Alastor dodges all of his attacks.

Adam calling him 'tough shit' is NOT an actual compliment. Its a sarcastic remark.

What’s the reason of it, remind? Why did he say that?

The show does everything in its power to show that Alastor gets bodied the second Adam actually kicks out anything that matters so no, he definitely shouldnt scale

Yeah, this is why Al is the one confident here while Adam is struggling due to skill and speed inferiority, dodging all of his attacks while Adam needs to use blind and sneak attack(s) to even get a hit on him.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

I might reply to more of the CRT later, but I want to just tackle two things being discussed rn

Firstly, Alastor's cane/microphone isn't the source of his powers. He still has the radio filter, can morph into a shadow, and control his shadow after it's broken. Alastor also summoned several portals, tentacles, and glyphs with his hand to fight Sir Pentious in the pilot. He had the cane in his other hand, but there's no indication he was using it for that scene. Alastor's cane is likely a conduit for his powers, though. It appears to make the abilities more effective/focused. Adam breaking his cane, which he was using to help focus his powers, seems to have just disrupted it rather than outright nullify. His page says it's the source of his powers, but that honestly needs to be revised.

As for Alastor scaling to Adam in any way, no... Adam has the same issue as his exorcist army. He fights like he's invincible and leaves himself super open by doing this. Alastor even comments on that being the case in the fight. A serious Adam immediately cut through Alastor's cane and near fatally injured him with a follow up slash. Charlie's thinking that Alastor was the best solution for Adam also doesn't seem to mean much. She was shocked by Adam one shotting Alastor's shield, which seems like she underestimated Adam more than anything. I think it would be fine if Alastor ended up being 7-A with a different feat and having Adam further upscale from that, but Alastor fighting Adam shouldn't be used as further evidence for that rating.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I might reply to more of the CRT later, but I want to just tackle two things being discussed rn

(I thought you were dead on the wiki lol)

Firstly, Alastor's cane/microphone isn't the source of his powers. He still has the radio filter, can morph into a shadow, and control his shadow after it's broken. Alastor also summoned several portals, tentacles, and glyphs with his hand to fight Sir Pentious in the pilot. He had the cane in his other hand, but there's no indication he was using it for that scene. Alastor's cane is likely a conduit for his powers, though. It appears to make the abilities more effective/focused. Adam breaking his cane, which he was using to help focus his powers, seems to have just disrupted it rather than outright nullify. His page says it's the source of his powers, but that honestly needs to be revised.

I’m not saying it is source, I’m saying it’s more of an amplifier. That’s why he runs away after getting injured despite not being that much effected by the actual stab and being able to regen it, and that’s why all of his powers disappear after cane getting broken.
Yeah, it’s not exactly a source of all his powers, no shit, the best you can argue is that it is source of all of his offensive powers (tentacles, minions, electricity), but that would need more context than just that.

As for Alastor scaling to Adam in any way, no... Adam has the same issue as his exorcist army. He fights like he's invincible and leaves himself super open by doing this. Alastor even comments on that being the case in the fight. A serious Adam immediately cut through Alastor's cane and near fatally injured him with a follow up slash. Charlie's thinking that Alastor was the best solution for Adam also doesn't seem to mean much. She was shocked by Adam one shotting Alastor's shield, which seems like she underestimated Adam more than anything. I think it would be fine if Alastor ended up being 7-A with a different feat and having Adam further upscale from that, but Alastor fighting Adam shouldn't be used as further evidence for that rating.

I never said that Alastor is physically above Adam here. Adam scales to Lucifer who is obviously above Al physically…
He scales to Adam in AP via harming him with his own shadow though, and he also scales in speed and skill above him, but physically he scales to Vox’s durability (well besides Striking Strength). That’s the proposal.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Regardless I agree more with using Chicago rather than this billion thing.

Not only it's a one-line thing in a song, that makes the statement super dubious, but you have to understand the gap between a billion and 2 millions (current Chigago population).

For every person, there'd be 500 more if the population is that high, in HH it's clearly not the case, which really makes me think that the overpopulation issue is just an excuse made by the angels to kill the Sinners.

Because of this I think that Vox, other overlords like Alastor and Sins would be just Low 7-B+, with Adam, Lucifer and Charlie instead being 7-B via massively upscaling.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Regardless I agree more with using Chigago rather than this billion thing.

Not only it's a one-line thing in a song, that makes the statement super dubious, but you have to understand the gap between a billion and 2 millions (current Chigago population).

For every person, there'd be 500 more if the population is that high, in HH it's clearly not the case, which really makes me think that the overpopulation issue is just an excuse made by the angels to kill the Sinners.

Because of this I think that Vox, other overlords like Alastor and Sins would be just Low 7-B+, with Adam, Lucifer and Charlie instead being 7-B via massively upscaling.

But again, there is also “millions of souls” statement by Carmille, and it wouldn’t make sense for the freaking Hell to have such a low population tbh.

 

[StrymULTRA]

But again, there is also “millions of souls” statement by Carmille

Link? It definitely does sound better and more reliable on a first sight.

Edit: Chicago has over 2.7 million people as population, so Carmilla's statement would be supportive at best.

and it wouldn’t make sense for the freaking Hell to have such a low population tbh.

Because every year the angels come to exterminate, this is why.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Link? It definitely does sound better and more reliable on a first sight.

Edit: Chicago has over 2.7 million people as population, so Carmilla's statement would be supportive at best.

Because every year the angels come to exterminate, this is why.

Aren’t there like 10 overlords. Just use that per million as a lowball making the population 10 million

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

I thought you were dead on the wiki lol)

I’m not saying it is source, I’m saying it’s more of an amplifier. That’s why he runs away after getting injured despite not being that much effected by the actual stab and being able to regen it, and that’s why all of his powers disappear after cane getting broken.

Considering the only argument supporting yours is the line from the leaks. The leaks confirm that alastors soul was unlike anything she’s ever seen, putting him above zestial. So no he’s not a f*cking blitzo victim, your just exaggerating.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Aren’t there like 10 overlords. Just use that per million as a lowball making the population 10 million

I know basically nuffin about HH as I saw just 2 episodes lol.

So I'd need context and scans for all if I wanna make a calc on it, ya know.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

(I thought you were dead on the wiki lol)

Sometimes it just be like that.

I’m not saying it is source, I’m saying it’s more of an amplifier. That’s why he runs away after getting injured despite not being that much effected by the actual stab and being able to regen it, and that’s why all of his powers disappear after cane getting broken.
Yeah, it’s not exactly a source of all his powers, no shit, the best you can argue is that it is source of all of his offensive powers (tentacles, minions, electricity), but that would need more context than just that.

You misunderstand: I was more in agreement with you on this point than Reaper. Reaper denied that the cane is tied to Alastor's power in any significant way, and I was tackling that. Adam's Power Nullification shouldn't be based on erasing Alastor's powers when all he effectively did was disrupt it by destroying what was the conduit of Alastor's powers, was that not what you were saying?

The page itself says it's the source of his powers. I'm adding that while we're doing a verse wide revision that we fix that with Alastor. You appear to be in agreement with me for the most part, so this shouldn't be an issue.

I never said that Alastor is physically above Adam here. Adam scales to Lucifer who is obviously above Al physically…
He scales to Adam in AP via harming him with his own shadow though, and he also scales in speed and skill above him, but physically he scales to Vox’s durability (well besides Striking Strength). That’s the proposal.

I never said you had Alastor above Adam physically, so I'm not sure why you're responding to a point I didn't make.

He staggered a casual Adam through what effectively a cheap shot. That's not enough to properly scale him to Adam. Adam one shotting Alastor's shield (which was supposed to be a trump card) and almost killing him with one slash makes it clear that Alastor isn't remotely comparable to a serious Adam. It's fine if he gets 7-A from the Vox feat because that's a separate matter.

Speed-wise, it's effectively the same story. A serious Adam upsizing his guitar and attacking dismantled Alastor's form so fast that he didn't even realize what had happened. Again, it shows that Alastor doesn't match a serious Adam. Alastor being above Adam in terms of skill is fine. Alastor got Adam to a point where he had to rely on being physically stronger to beat Alastor over all else.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

I know basically nuffin about HH as I saw just 2 episodes lol.

So I'd need context and scans for all if I wanna make a calc on it, ya know.

oh ik, I'm just saying that there is a very blatant statement for a lowballed population. 10-20 million should be used. it's not chicago low, nor is it 1 billion from a vague statement

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

Aren’t there like 10 overlords. Just use that per million as a lowball making the population 10 million

I believe there are 11 of them so far. It should be noted that's still a very significant low-ball. Carmilla's meeting only had the "sovereign" ones. There are likely more Overlords, though with smaller numbers of Sinners in contracts. A lot of people in Hell also don't necessarily have contracts too. That could be reflected in an At least rating if we go with this figure.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

I believe there are 11 of them so far. It should be noted that's still a very significant low-ball. Carmilla's meeting only had the "sovereign" ones. There are likely more Overlords, though with smaller numbers of Sinners in contracts. A lot of people in Hell also don't necessarily have contracts too. That could be reflected in an At least rating if we go with this figure.

Yeah I 100% agree. I also agree on your point on the cane, orange is acting like its an infinity stone or some shit of a line from the leaks lmfao

 

[Jinx666]

Then stop acting as if you didn’t.

Im not :I Just because i don't agree doesnt mean i didnt read it. You need to stop with the attitude

No? When Adam is serious, Alastor dodges all of his attacks.

Clearly not. Adam was more frustrated, when he actually landed a serious hit, Alastor got folded. Alastor dodging does NOT scale him either way

What’s the reason of it, remind? Why did he say that?

Because Alastor WAS indeed acting like he was tough shit. He was smug and taunting, Adam didnt genuinely think he was tough, he thought he was a poser.

Yeah, this is why Al is the one confident here while Adam is struggling due to skill and speed inferiority, dodging all of his attacks while Adam needs to use blind and sneak attack(s) to even get a hit on him.

Okay quit the glazing. Even when Adam is clearly out of practise and underestimating Hell, even if he is worse in 'skill', Alastor got folded easily at the end of the day. It wasnt a sneak attack whatsoever, Alastor actively tried to block the attack, then got blitzed after the cane broke.

They gave Alastor that fight scene and a small advantage (knowing he would narratively lose) for fanservice mainly. We're only just now finding out that he isnt all that, and it isnt even his own power lol

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

blitzed after the cane broke.

I disagree with al scaling to adam, but Alastor was not blitzed, he was caught of guard.........don't **** with HH fans, we don't even watch the show

They gave Alastor that fight scene and a small advantage (knowing he would narratively lose) for fanservice mainly. We're only just now finding out that he isnt all that, and it isnt even his own power lol

Rosie amped his power, but his soul was unlike any sinners beforehand including zestial, so yes, he is allat......... can people stop trying to use leaks to push dumb agenda's when those same leaks also help alastor? Also it was literally stated in the pilot that nobody knows how alastor got so strong, so it's clear that they already had the idea that alastor was getting buffed by someone since the pilot.
Also vizie said stolas > alastor, but alastor took a shot from a pissed off adam and got better in like an hour, while stolas got jumped by an imp with angel weapons and got hospitalised.......so we should probably remove the statement for stolas scaling to alastor

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

Yeah I 100% agree. I also agree on your point on the cane, orange is acting like its an infinity stone or some shit of a line from the leaks lmfao

I've seen that brought up as evidence, and I think we shouldn't use unreleased material atm. I haven't looked at the leaks because I don't want to spoil myself lol, but it's very possible we may get more context for it later. We should just work with what we have right now.