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I disagree, even at universe-sized realms a lot of the feats are very contestable and only the Yggdrasil feat is arguably Tier 2.
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God of War: Norse Pantheon Revisions
- Thread starter Kepekley23
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- #162
Nothing too heavily contestable or inconsistent.
Before Ymir's birth it was explained that the whole of reality was a complete void where absolutely nothing existed except "primordial forces", which met and created Ymir. His body being used to make all the 9 realms would naturally scale to them.
And Ymir's death flood was cross-dimensional. Outright stated in the rethrewad that the flood affected pretty much all realms. There is really nothing else it can be, unless you believe there were convenient portals leading to other realms from which the water passed.
Also, there is a shrine about Surtur which confirms his feat as told by Mimir. It states that his sword destroys both Asgard and the norse world.
Before Ymir's birth it was explained that the whole of reality was a complete void where absolutely nothing existed except "primordial forces", which met and created Ymir. His body being used to make all the 9 realms would naturally scale to them.
And Ymir's death flood was cross-dimensional. Outright stated in the rethrewad that the flood affected pretty much all realms. There is really nothing else it can be, unless you believe there were convenient portals leading to other realms from which the water passed.
Also, there is a shrine about Surtur which confirms his feat as told by Mimir. It states that his sword destroys both Asgard and the norse world.
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I find myself at a bit of a crossroads here since I tend to automatically give the benefit of the doubt to what Matt and Kep says.
Question though; if Thor's fight with the serpent could just be felt from the other realms, why is that a 2-C feat, if the realms are physically connected to one another?
The rest of the feats I still have to read up on, so mark me as neutral for now.
Question though; if Thor's fight with the serpent could just be felt from the other realms, why is that a 2-C feat, if the realms are physically connected to one another?
The rest of the feats I still have to read up on, so mark me as neutral for now.
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- #164
> Question though; if Thor's fight with the serpent could just be felt from the other realms, why is that a 2-C feat, if the realms are physically connected to one another?
The realms aren't physically connected in the literal sense (unless you count the portals that exist in the Realm Between Realms, which are...portals). They just all exist on the World Tree Yggdrasil and are layered atop each other in its branches.
And sure, counting you as neutral.
The realms aren't physically connected in the literal sense (unless you count the portals that exist in the Realm Between Realms, which are...portals). They just all exist on the World Tree Yggdrasil and are layered atop each other in its branches.
And sure, counting you as neutral.
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Just wanna point out that Cronos creating time and killing the primordials would be this tier. Would be an outlier using old scaling, but new scaling, assuming it gets accepted, would start making stuff make a lot more senseSigurd Snake in The Eye said:
But, I haven't been keeping up with the discussion, just wanted to day this.
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There's also a whole thread with other stuff supporting this ^^^
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Ymir's body and Ymir's flood are both related to the places of the realms inhabited by people, and not the whole of the dimensions. Midgard as in Earth, and not as in the whole universe.
Surtur's feat is unusable as it never happened yet.
Surtur's feat is unusable as it never happened yet.
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- #168
> Ymir's body and Ymir's flood are both related to the places of the realms inhabited by people, and not the whole of the dimensions. Midgard as in Earth, and not as in the whole universe.
This is incorrect, as Mimir says. The two giants who survived Ymir's flood have to go to the realm of Jotunheim in order to find a place that isn't affected.
> Surtur's feat is unusable as it never happened yet.
It happened in the Serpent's timeline, as the game and the authors clarify. Therefore it's applicable because it did happen.
This is incorrect, as Mimir says. The two giants who survived Ymir's flood have to go to the realm of Jotunheim in order to find a place that isn't affected.
> Surtur's feat is unusable as it never happened yet.
It happened in the Serpent's timeline, as the game and the authors clarify. Therefore it's applicable because it did happen.
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No, it's far more reasonable to just assume that the flooding reached into other realms through some unspecified means as opposed yo Ymir's blood literally flooding every cubic centimeter of an entire dimension and affecting space and time, which is physically impossible.
We don't know that, Kep. We don't even know how much the feat is true and how much it is hype.
We don't know that, Kep. We don't even know how much the feat is true and how much it is hype.
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- #170
Except that's pure headcanon. Why not take things at face value? Why go out of the way to make up explanations? And it being physically impossible is irrelevant, since it happened. We don't have to go through technicalities, or else you'll say that Thor and the Serpent's second feat is also physically impossible despite the fact it 100% happened.
We do know that. It's stated in game. Thor and the Serpent's fight are part of Ragnarok. We also know via actual interviews that all the myths told in the verse are legitimate and meant to be true lore given to us. No reason to discard stuff for the sake of discarding.
There are two timelines:
We do know that. It's stated in game. Thor and the Serpent's fight are part of Ragnarok. We also know via actual interviews that all the myths told in the verse are legitimate and meant to be true lore given to us. No reason to discard stuff for the sake of discarding.
There are two timelines:
- 1. The Serpent's timeline, where all the prophecies and myths happened and led into Ragnarok directly.
- 2. Kratos's timeline, where Kratos being swept to the Norse Realms against his will causes a butterfly effect that changes many of the events. This is heavily implied to be the case by the end of the game with the Atreus revelation.
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It's called having commong sense, and being reasonable, and going for explanations which come off as more plausible. You can't just say "It happened, it's canon' and then try to dismiss any attempt to properly analyze the feat as nonsense.
Ymir's two stories deal with things on a much, much lower scale than what you imply they do. The first deals with how his body created the realms, but when descrbed in detail they talk about the land itself, the mountains, the clouds, the oceans. Nothing about planets, stars, space-time, etc. Stars itself have a completely different origin. So the notion that Ymir is completely responsible for the realms is unwarrented eve nin-game.
The second deals with a great flood happening and killing everyone on its way. It's blatantly not anything highr than Tier 6. That you sell it as a Tier 2 feat is honestly the most baffling dcision of this thread.
Ymir's two stories deal with things on a much, much lower scale than what you imply they do. The first deals with how his body created the realms, but when descrbed in detail they talk about the land itself, the mountains, the clouds, the oceans. Nothing about planets, stars, space-time, etc. Stars itself have a completely different origin. So the notion that Ymir is completely responsible for the realms is unwarrented eve nin-game.
The second deals with a great flood happening and killing everyone on its way. It's blatantly not anything highr than Tier 6. That you sell it as a Tier 2 feat is honestly the most baffling dcision of this thread.
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- #172
> It's called having commong sense, and being reasonable, and going for explanations which come off as more plausible. You can't just say "It happened, it's canon' and then try to dismiss any attempt to properly analyze the feat as nonsense.
Except it's not a proper attempt. You are just disbelieving the feat. There is no other way with evidence to interpret it when it is literally told to us that the flood spanned multiple realms and that the Giants discovered Jotunheim and had to go into hiding to avoid it.
> Ymir's two stories deal with things on a much, much lower scale than what you imply they do. The first deals with how his body created the realms, but when descrbed in detail they talk about the land itself, the mountains, the clouds, the oceans. Nothing about planets, stars, space-time, etc. Stars itself have a completely different origin. So the notion that Ymir is completely responsible for the realms is unwarrented eve nin-game.
The characters talk about the things that are most relevant to their setting. They also talk about how Ymir's body created the realms and how before him there was nothing but an infinite, primordial void where absolutely nothing existed but primordial forms. All of this is equally applicable. This is nitpicking the actual details to avoid the actual conclusion at hand here.
> The second deals with a great flood happening and killing everyone on its way. It's blatantly not anything highr than Tier 6. That you sell it as a Tier 2 feat is honestly the most baffling dcision of this thread.
Except the flood was cross-dimensional. It spanned multiple realms at once and was stated to have affected the entirety of the Norse universe. This scan is in the blog. Showing disbelief at the feat's scale doesn't make it any lower.
Also, rating a flood that spanned multiple parallel dimensions as Tier 6 is what is actually baffling in my view.
Except it's not a proper attempt. You are just disbelieving the feat. There is no other way with evidence to interpret it when it is literally told to us that the flood spanned multiple realms and that the Giants discovered Jotunheim and had to go into hiding to avoid it.
> Ymir's two stories deal with things on a much, much lower scale than what you imply they do. The first deals with how his body created the realms, but when descrbed in detail they talk about the land itself, the mountains, the clouds, the oceans. Nothing about planets, stars, space-time, etc. Stars itself have a completely different origin. So the notion that Ymir is completely responsible for the realms is unwarrented eve nin-game.
The characters talk about the things that are most relevant to their setting. They also talk about how Ymir's body created the realms and how before him there was nothing but an infinite, primordial void where absolutely nothing existed but primordial forms. All of this is equally applicable. This is nitpicking the actual details to avoid the actual conclusion at hand here.
> The second deals with a great flood happening and killing everyone on its way. It's blatantly not anything highr than Tier 6. That you sell it as a Tier 2 feat is honestly the most baffling dcision of this thread.
Except the flood was cross-dimensional. It spanned multiple realms at once and was stated to have affected the entirety of the Norse universe. This scan is in the blog. Showing disbelief at the feat's scale doesn't make it any lower.
Also, rating a flood that spanned multiple parallel dimensions as Tier 6 is what is actually baffling in my view.
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We have now reached the point where we are legitimately making up baseless explanations and headcanon in order to downplay the feats. That's rather telling, no offense to those involved.
I agree with Kep.
I agree with Kep.
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It's not baseless headcanon to downplay, it's just having a reasonable outlook at the thing based on what we're told. That it doesn't warrant the highest most leveled tier possible is to be expected.
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I will also side with Kep here. I wouldn't try to overrealistically analyze mythological Gods like this by making entirely new unfounded explainations. Fiction is one thing, but, the material God of War is based on is pretty unrealistic in the first place, so making these assumptions instead of just looking at what's being said seems strange to say the least.
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- #176
That's not how standards of evidence work. Inventing an explanation unsourced from literally nowhere and ignoring the actual scale of the feat to say it's Tier 6 of all things is not having a reasonable outlook, I say this with no offense intended to you at all.
I literally just have to look at what the characters actually say in order to get my results while your argument requires reading lines that are not said and ignoring the feat's scale. I say my view is more reasonable since it just requires looking at what Mimir actually says, no forced explanations required.
I literally just have to look at what the characters actually say in order to get my results while your argument requires reading lines that are not said and ignoring the feat's scale. I say my view is more reasonable since it just requires looking at what Mimir actually says, no forced explanations required.
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^^^
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I have to agree with kep what matt says just sounds baffling.
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This right here.ParadoxIndifferent said:
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I do think Para saying we doesn't really fit it's matt that brought up that oddity. No offense to matt it's just I can't get my head around how they (singler) reached some of these conclusions...
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I'll say this for myself: the reason that I haven't just agreed with the upgrade is because I feel like, after having played the game, that for everything we learned, it was only a piece of the puzzle. Like we don't know the full picture. I just feel like that we're working with only a fraction of what's actually there. I can't help but feel like if, once we get a sequel, like everything is going to get turned on it's head.
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- #182
@TheC2
The next game is another thing that will be dealt with when it actually arrives. As far as things go, I think we should go by what is actually stated on the current game. If we were discussing the first game of the God of War series we wouldn't wait for God of War 2 to be released in three years to decide anything. And there are statements regarding timeline changes either way.
The next game is another thing that will be dealt with when it actually arrives. As far as things go, I think we should go by what is actually stated on the current game. If we were discussing the first game of the God of War series we wouldn't wait for God of War 2 to be released in three years to decide anything. And there are statements regarding timeline changes either way.
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Well, then don't let me stop you.
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Also, regarding Ymir's flood, let's not forget that Mimir does indeed describe Ymir's blood as something cosmic in scale when he first recounts his tale about how the realms came to be which further helps solidify the actual feat.
Ymir is the personification of the mystic life-blood which was created by the primordial void of Ginnungagap. It is that blood that allows him to be, as Mimir puts it, a personification of "pure creation and chaos". The high-scale and overblown cosmology is 100% on-purpose from the part of the devs.
Ymir is the personification of the mystic life-blood which was created by the primordial void of Ginnungagap. It is that blood that allows him to be, as Mimir puts it, a personification of "pure creation and chaos". The high-scale and overblown cosmology is 100% on-purpose from the part of the devs.
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I'd also note it wouldn't be tied 6 even if we did lawlball it.
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- #187
Azzy is neutral on this according to him, just to note.
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I'm neutral on this.
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As evidenced by the overwhelming wave of positive responses and with some of the people who disagree even changing their overall standing to neutral, and with Azathoth being neutral, the vast majority agrees with Kep's arguments here.
So, we should start regulating who will scale. Kratos, Thor and Baldur, more obviously, receive direct scaling to these feats. Don't know about Post-Potential Atreus.
So, we should start regulating who will scale. Kratos, Thor and Baldur, more obviously, receive direct scaling to these feats. Don't know about Post-Potential Atreus.
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Post potential would as would Thor (obviously)
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Yeah, I said as much regarding Thor.
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Yeah, I can agree with 2-C too.
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IM personally fine with either 2-C or 4-A as of now.
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- #195
I will be going to sleep now and will continue this tomorrow.
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wew
Finally got enough evidence for Tier 2 GoW
So I support this.
Finally got enough evidence for Tier 2 GoW
So I support this.
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At least 4-A seems reasonable; I'm fine with either that or 2-C.
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I agree with Kep
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As someone whose played the game, I can't really agree with this upgrade thread. It doesn't seem sensical given the events and how very low-tier Kratos' feats are. However, Matthew, do you not realize your hypocrisy here?Matthew Schroeder said:
The sheer abyss between the supposed feats and the scale displayed in the The Elder Scrolls games is something consider heavily.
Yet you, yourself, upgraded them from similar tierings as this GoW thread will do, Tier 6 to Tier 2 and even Tier 1 for some characters. I'm surprised you disagree with this.
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And so it begins
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