- 5,637
- 674
If my stance wasn't clear before I do indeed agree with the OP, but I do think it should also scale to Zeus if it is accepted. But I understand the reasoning for it not too.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
God of War: Norse Pantheon Revisions
- Thread starter Kepekley23
- Start date
- Status
- 32,359
- 20,298
I'd like to point out that what can constitute a celestial body or a star or even a galaxy in a mythological setting heavily varies from mythology to mythology. The term "planet" originated from Ancient Greece, and they were able to chart the heavens and map the solar system, but in their mythology the planets aren't anything like real life world.
So the Guidebook calling the sun and moon "celestial bodies" isn't exactly the best evidence, specially when the story we are told in-game differs so much.
Surtr's story, if true, puts a severe damp on the notion that the stars are literal balls of plasma burning light-years away. Rather, that far more indicates that they are points shining in a firmament, as would be expected in a heavily mythologized setting which doesn't follow real life. Also the fact that the stars of all the realms are the same, and all the realms are contained in Yggdrasil, isn't impossible. It can be very easiy justified by the realms sharing the same sky and space around them, after all, they share the same physical space and exist on different planes contained by Yggdrasil. They are not bubble universes by each other's side, after all.
These statement mostly come in the form of general catch-all statements from developers on interviews on twitter, saying that "All mythologies are true", but not that all individual myths on said mythologies are true, specially when they are contradicted and changed in-game. Ragnarok itself is already being altered thanks to Kratos.
So the Guidebook calling the sun and moon "celestial bodies" isn't exactly the best evidence, specially when the story we are told in-game differs so much.
Surtr's story, if true, puts a severe damp on the notion that the stars are literal balls of plasma burning light-years away. Rather, that far more indicates that they are points shining in a firmament, as would be expected in a heavily mythologized setting which doesn't follow real life. Also the fact that the stars of all the realms are the same, and all the realms are contained in Yggdrasil, isn't impossible. It can be very easiy justified by the realms sharing the same sky and space around them, after all, they share the same physical space and exist on different planes contained by Yggdrasil. They are not bubble universes by each other's side, after all.
These statement mostly come in the form of general catch-all statements from developers on interviews on twitter, saying that "All mythologies are true", but not that all individual myths on said mythologies are true, specially when they are contradicted and changed in-game. Ragnarok itself is already being altered thanks to Kratos.
- 15,332
- 7,563
- Thread starter
- #84
> I'd like to point out that what can constitute a celestial body or a star or even a galaxy in a mythological setting heavily varies from mythology to mythology.
Exactly. Which is why the Norse myths have their own definition, similar to what stars are in real life.
> So the Guidebook calling the sun and moon "celestial bodies" isn't exactly the best evidence, specially when the story we are told in-game differs so much.
Nothing in the game says otherwise. The games explicitly show a true cosmology, since there are two different murals portraying spiral galaxies and said murals are confirmed by WoG to be portraying the Realm Between Realms, as well. Also, Alfheim's nightsky is explicitly a real outer-space with nebulae as well.
> Surtr's story, if true, puts a severe damp on the notion that the stars are literal balls of plasma burning light-years away. Rather, that far more indicates that they are points shining in a firmament, as would be expected in a heavily mythologized setting which doesn't follow real life
Surtr's story doesn't put a damp on anything. There is no such thing as a "stellar firmament" in the God of War universe - neither the Greek Pantheon, nor the current Norse Pantheon showed this cosmology. As I explained in my blog, the Norse pantheon explicitly follows conventional outer space cosmology with real galaxies and nebulae (and there are two separate murals of Tyr showing the same thing)
> Also the fact that the stars of all the realms are the same, and all the realms are contained in Yggdrasil, isn't impossible. It can be very easiy justified by the realms sharing the same sky and space around them, after all, they share the same physical space and exist on different planes contained by Yggdrasil
The stars of all the realms are not the same. This is never stated in the game. And, again, the realms do not share the same sky nor the same physical space. When Freya talks about that, she is referring to the fact that they co-exist on the branches of Yggdrasil - she even says so herself, and she is the only character who explains this, by the way, so not trusting her word in the same sentence would be a bit of a double standard.
> These statement mostly come in the form of general catch-all statements from developers on interviews on twitter, saying that "All mythologies are true", but not that all individual myths on said mythologies are true
That's not what is actually stated:
Exactly. Which is why the Norse myths have their own definition, similar to what stars are in real life.
> So the Guidebook calling the sun and moon "celestial bodies" isn't exactly the best evidence, specially when the story we are told in-game differs so much.
Nothing in the game says otherwise. The games explicitly show a true cosmology, since there are two different murals portraying spiral galaxies and said murals are confirmed by WoG to be portraying the Realm Between Realms, as well. Also, Alfheim's nightsky is explicitly a real outer-space with nebulae as well.
> Surtr's story, if true, puts a severe damp on the notion that the stars are literal balls of plasma burning light-years away. Rather, that far more indicates that they are points shining in a firmament, as would be expected in a heavily mythologized setting which doesn't follow real life
Surtr's story doesn't put a damp on anything. There is no such thing as a "stellar firmament" in the God of War universe - neither the Greek Pantheon, nor the current Norse Pantheon showed this cosmology. As I explained in my blog, the Norse pantheon explicitly follows conventional outer space cosmology with real galaxies and nebulae (and there are two separate murals of Tyr showing the same thing)
> Also the fact that the stars of all the realms are the same, and all the realms are contained in Yggdrasil, isn't impossible. It can be very easiy justified by the realms sharing the same sky and space around them, after all, they share the same physical space and exist on different planes contained by Yggdrasil
The stars of all the realms are not the same. This is never stated in the game. And, again, the realms do not share the same sky nor the same physical space. When Freya talks about that, she is referring to the fact that they co-exist on the branches of Yggdrasil - she even says so herself, and she is the only character who explains this, by the way, so not trusting her word in the same sentence would be a bit of a double standard.
> These statement mostly come in the form of general catch-all statements from developers on interviews on twitter, saying that "All mythologies are true", but not that all individual myths on said mythologies are true
That's not what is actually stated:
- Cory Barlog: ""The way I see the mythologies (in God of War) is kinda like that Hubble telescope image. That image shows the universe with all its individual galaxies - and each galaxy is a representation of a mythology. You sort of wrap that around the Earth, and in any given moment, all of those mythological belief systems existed. They all deal with the creation myths around their region - it's just separated by sort of a geography."
- Matt Sophos: "Man's history marches along linearly, but the myths (and all their interpretations) are all true."
- 7,107
- 3,862
I'm gonna support Matt here, he has a lot of points in favor.
- 300
- 219
Kep seems far more knowledgeable and far more reasonable about the subject here, as well as having far more scans and evidence to support his upgrade as evidenced by that massive essay he wrote with all the scans. I again have to say I wholly agree with everything he is saying, and clearly am not the only one as evidenced by the fact he has a lot more people in his side, alongside numerous staff members. Meanwhile, in the other side I just see the same points whic are clarified by the blog being repeated over and over again.
The realms do not literally share the same physical space, this should be self-evident if you played the game. They are merely layered on different branches of the World Tree. Freya herself clarifies this point and what she means. Clinging onto the same thing against all the evidence in this world doesn't work out, IMO., and no offense to those who disagree with this.
The realms do not literally share the same physical space, this should be self-evident if you played the game. They are merely layered on different branches of the World Tree. Freya herself clarifies this point and what she means. Clinging onto the same thing against all the evidence in this world doesn't work out, IMO., and no offense to those who disagree with this.
- 32,359
- 20,298
Norse Mythology isn't scientifically accurate at all, I don't know what your point is? It is a mythology with small stars and a sun which rotates around the earth like most mythologies.
The game never depicts a true cosmology, the only evidence of that is the spiral galaxy in Tyr's mural. Everything else hints to a mythologized setting, such as with the wolves chasing the sun and moon which orbit around Midgard, and the sun and moon being two brothers and not celestial bodies in the literal sense.
Surtr's story shows that stars in God of War are pretty conclusively not stars as they are in real life. They are created from embers and sparks from Muspellheim's forge and not balls of plasma in combustion light-years away. Such two ideas are directly incompatible with one another, specially the notion that Surtr's forge made the stars in all realms.
The fact that all realms are "reflections of each other", as Freya explains, puts a severe damp on the notion that they are wholly separate realities, as you insist. It's very similar to the telescope explanation presented below, they are the same space, viewed by different lenses and mirrors, reflections which of the same space presented differently in each realm.
Lastly, neither statement gives complete certitude on the accuracy of every myth. They indicate that all mythologies exist, but we know that in both the Greek and Norse Myths there are in-universe legends which are just not true.
The game never depicts a true cosmology, the only evidence of that is the spiral galaxy in Tyr's mural. Everything else hints to a mythologized setting, such as with the wolves chasing the sun and moon which orbit around Midgard, and the sun and moon being two brothers and not celestial bodies in the literal sense.
Surtr's story shows that stars in God of War are pretty conclusively not stars as they are in real life. They are created from embers and sparks from Muspellheim's forge and not balls of plasma in combustion light-years away. Such two ideas are directly incompatible with one another, specially the notion that Surtr's forge made the stars in all realms.
The fact that all realms are "reflections of each other", as Freya explains, puts a severe damp on the notion that they are wholly separate realities, as you insist. It's very similar to the telescope explanation presented below, they are the same space, viewed by different lenses and mirrors, reflections which of the same space presented differently in each realm.
Lastly, neither statement gives complete certitude on the accuracy of every myth. They indicate that all mythologies exist, but we know that in both the Greek and Norse Myths there are in-universe legends which are just not true.
- 7,107
- 3,862
Ok I have to point out something, Have a lot of people supporting you doesn't necessarily makes one person to be right over the other.
Ex. Hitler had a lot of followers.
See? We don't know big the realms are, if planet sized or legit universe sized.
Ex. Hitler had a lot of followers.
See? We don't know big the realms are, if planet sized or legit universe sized.
- 15,332
- 7,563
- Thread starter
- #89
Let me clarify something that I feel is extremely important for the debate to progress.
There is only one statement in the game itself regarding the nine realms sharing the same physical space, by Freya. And this is what she says.
"exist at the same time or in the same place.."
This is the context behind that statement. It is not literally the same physical space. Freya is talking about the fact they all exist on the branches of the World Tree parallel to each other.
Hope this clears that up.
There is only one statement in the game itself regarding the nine realms sharing the same physical space, by Freya. And this is what she says.
- "All the realms exist in the same physical space, reflections of each other. These doors, the towers outside, and the nine realms are all intertwined, and co-existing on the branches of the World Tree".
"exist at the same time or in the same place.."
This is the context behind that statement. It is not literally the same physical space. Freya is talking about the fact they all exist on the branches of the World Tree parallel to each other.
Hope this clears that up.
- 15,332
- 7,563
- Thread starter
- #90
> Norse Mythology isn't scientifically accurate at all, I don't know what your point is? It is a mythology with small stars and a sun which rotates around the earth like most mythologies.
Real norse mythology is irrelevant to God of War.
> The game never depicts a true cosmology, the only evidence of that is the spiral galaxy in Tyr's mural. Everything else hints to a mythologized setting, such as with the wolves chasing the sun and moon which orbit around Midgard, and the sun and moon being two brothers and not celestial bodies in the literal sense.
None of that is said or clarified in-game. All we are told is that Skol and Hati chase the Sun and the Moon. Nothing else, so all we can do is get other official sources on the matter. The guidebook, for example, calls them "stars and celestial bodies", which completely goes against them not being at least meant to be more than points of light in the sky.
Also, a setting being mythologized is wholly irrelevant to the nature of their celestial bodies. We do not assume anything if we don't have proof for it - and God of War has always had real celestial bodies.
For example, in the Greek Pantheon of the series, Ares created an illusory dimension which included galaxies in the background, which suggests that the Greek Gods were aware of the true cosmology of their universe and that galaxies existed, which ended up being confirmed by Ascension, so that sets a precedent for the stars and nebulae being true, and you have yet to show anything that suggests otherwise other than the setting being mythological, which is irrelevant as far as actual evidence goes.
> The game never depicts a true cosmology, the only evidence of that is the spiral galaxy in Tyr's mural. Everything else hints to a mythologized setting, such as with the wolves chasing the sun and moon which orbit around Midgard, and the sun and moon being two brothers and not celestial bodies in the literal sense.
This is untrue, as anyone who checks Surtr's tale as told by Mimir will realize. Nothing is said about them being embers or sparks. What is stated is that Surtur conjured "the sun and the stars" from his own powers - this says absolutely nothing about them being merely false points of light or embers, so your evidence falls short right there.
> The fact that all realms are "reflections of each other", as Freya explains, puts a severe damp on the notion that they are wholly separate realities, as you insist. It's very similar to the telescope explanation presented below, they are the same space, viewed by different lenses and mirrors, reflections which of the same space presented differently in each realm.
I debunked this above. As anyone can check, the context there is that Freya is talking about Yggdrasil.
> Lastly, neither statement gives complete certitude on the accuracy of every myth. They indicate that all mythologies exist, but we know that in both the Greek and Norse Myths there are in-universe legends which are just not true.
Which legends in the Greek Myths were not true? The Titanomachy was true and Kratos witnessed it himself, the tales about Uranus creating the universe told by Gyges were true, the tales about Gaia and her children were true, Pandora's Box was true...absolutely everything prior to Kratos becoming immune to the Sisters of Fate was shown to be true.
Also, the in-universe legends regarding Ragnarok are explained in-universe by the World Serpent. Ragnarok took place exactly as foretold in the Serpent's timeline, but when it returned to the past it changed the timeline.
Real norse mythology is irrelevant to God of War.
> The game never depicts a true cosmology, the only evidence of that is the spiral galaxy in Tyr's mural. Everything else hints to a mythologized setting, such as with the wolves chasing the sun and moon which orbit around Midgard, and the sun and moon being two brothers and not celestial bodies in the literal sense.
None of that is said or clarified in-game. All we are told is that Skol and Hati chase the Sun and the Moon. Nothing else, so all we can do is get other official sources on the matter. The guidebook, for example, calls them "stars and celestial bodies", which completely goes against them not being at least meant to be more than points of light in the sky.
Also, a setting being mythologized is wholly irrelevant to the nature of their celestial bodies. We do not assume anything if we don't have proof for it - and God of War has always had real celestial bodies.
For example, in the Greek Pantheon of the series, Ares created an illusory dimension which included galaxies in the background, which suggests that the Greek Gods were aware of the true cosmology of their universe and that galaxies existed, which ended up being confirmed by Ascension, so that sets a precedent for the stars and nebulae being true, and you have yet to show anything that suggests otherwise other than the setting being mythological, which is irrelevant as far as actual evidence goes.
> The game never depicts a true cosmology, the only evidence of that is the spiral galaxy in Tyr's mural. Everything else hints to a mythologized setting, such as with the wolves chasing the sun and moon which orbit around Midgard, and the sun and moon being two brothers and not celestial bodies in the literal sense.
This is untrue, as anyone who checks Surtr's tale as told by Mimir will realize. Nothing is said about them being embers or sparks. What is stated is that Surtur conjured "the sun and the stars" from his own powers - this says absolutely nothing about them being merely false points of light or embers, so your evidence falls short right there.
> The fact that all realms are "reflections of each other", as Freya explains, puts a severe damp on the notion that they are wholly separate realities, as you insist. It's very similar to the telescope explanation presented below, they are the same space, viewed by different lenses and mirrors, reflections which of the same space presented differently in each realm.
I debunked this above. As anyone can check, the context there is that Freya is talking about Yggdrasil.
> Lastly, neither statement gives complete certitude on the accuracy of every myth. They indicate that all mythologies exist, but we know that in both the Greek and Norse Myths there are in-universe legends which are just not true.
Which legends in the Greek Myths were not true? The Titanomachy was true and Kratos witnessed it himself, the tales about Uranus creating the universe told by Gyges were true, the tales about Gaia and her children were true, Pandora's Box was true...absolutely everything prior to Kratos becoming immune to the Sisters of Fate was shown to be true.
Also, the in-universe legends regarding Ragnarok are explained in-universe by the World Serpent. Ragnarok took place exactly as foretold in the Serpent's timeline, but when it returned to the past it changed the timeline.
- 20,106
- 10,901
If it wasn't clear from my post in the blog, I agree with this.
- 15,332
- 7,563
- Thread starter
- #92
Also, aside from the Realm Tears (which should effectively debunk the physical space view), there is a lore scroll which describes the effect of the magic of one of the Valkyries - it ripples through one of the realms, tearing at its fabric and slowly weakening it. However, the magic only affects the fabric of one realm, and it has no effect on other realms like Muspelheim and Niflheim, as stated.
This, alongside the Realm Tears, and the context I posted regarding Freya's statement, should clear up any doubts regarding whether or not the realms do share the same spatial fabric in a literal sense, or even the same "skies". They clearly don't and can't based on the actual showings. They are alternate dimensions and realities in relation to each other . They merely co-exist on the branches of the Tree of Life as Freya stated, and are layered - which is why if you cross the bridge between the realms, you'll be on the same geographical point. That's it.
If anyone has questions or reservations I'm sure to try and answer them.
This, alongside the Realm Tears, and the context I posted regarding Freya's statement, should clear up any doubts regarding whether or not the realms do share the same spatial fabric in a literal sense, or even the same "skies". They clearly don't and can't based on the actual showings. They are alternate dimensions and realities in relation to each other . They merely co-exist on the branches of the Tree of Life as Freya stated, and are layered - which is why if you cross the bridge between the realms, you'll be on the same geographical point. That's it.
If anyone has questions or reservations I'm sure to try and answer them.
- 300
- 219
If your arguments are backed up by more scans, by official guidebooks, by WoG and everything, and you have more people on your side, you're correct. And clearly lots and lots of people here agree with that spectacular essay he linked. Overall, the other side is more based on skewed interpretations than fact. I see no good points made against this upgrade so far - the hard-hitting "physical space" point has been debunked both in the blog and here.Apex PredatorX said:
We do know how big the realms are. They are legitimate outer spaces and have galaxies and nebulae. Also, Midgard is pretty much our own Earth and its universe. It is universe-sized via Occam's Razor and standard assumptions, since it has a normal universal cosmology, and since the other realms are the same size as Midgard, we do know their size. The blog has all of the evidence, people just have to actually read it.
- 9,738
- 1,523
I'm neutral, though you did a good job with the GoW Blog Kep. I will only say that if Old Kratos gets upgraded, then the strongest Olympian Gods and Titans should also be upgraded [mainly including the Primordials], lastly what was said here ap wise might will be legit if this is accepted.Cropfist said:
- 15,332
- 7,563
- Thread starter
- #96
Also, when I said that there were two murals representing galaxies, I was actually wrong
There are lots of murals in Jotnar which show many galaxies, and those murals are supposed to represent the sky of the realms like Jotunheim, not even merely the Realm Between Realms which transcends them. These findings are extremely important to this thread.
There are lots of murals in Jotnar which show many galaxies, and those murals are supposed to represent the sky of the realms like Jotunheim, not even merely the Realm Between Realms which transcends them. These findings are extremely important to this thread.
- 15,332
- 7,563
- Thread starter
- #97
@Dark
The only feat in Greek God of War which comes close is the Primordials' 3-A feat scaling to Cronos, and that's still very arguably an outlier for Cronos in and out of itself and is still very far from the Tier 2 Norse Realm feats - unless you count the other stuff that was said in that thread and I'm definitely not arguing that myself, given the potential shitstorm.
The only feat in Greek God of War which comes close is the Primordials' 3-A feat scaling to Cronos, and that's still very arguably an outlier for Cronos in and out of itself and is still very far from the Tier 2 Norse Realm feats - unless you count the other stuff that was said in that thread and I'm definitely not arguing that myself, given the potential shitstorm.
- 300
- 219
As the person who actually created that thread I agree that we should postpone anything about the Greek Gods up until we have actually decided on stuff here.
Anyway, something else that Kep missed is the fact that the Jotnar shrines describe the Nine Realms as being separate "worlds" which are in peace up until Ragnarok.
Anyway, something else that Kep missed is the fact that the Jotnar shrines describe the Nine Realms as being separate "worlds" which are in peace up until Ragnarok.
- 15,332
- 7,563
- Thread starter
- #100
Call down mate, this is just fiction, non existencial. NO real. You can support or not this thread but that doesn't means we all have to think the same way as you. Everyone is free to believe what they want.
I do not see the part where he insulted anyone, was aggressive at all, or was even condescending. Sounds like you're the one who needs to calm down.
I do not see the part where he insulted anyone, was aggressive at all, or was even condescending. Sounds like you're the one who needs to calm down.
- 32,359
- 20,298
I don't believe there is sufficient evidence that the Norse Realms are anywhere near the size of universes, other than the murals which are the only times said scale is depicted. In the games proper we see nothing of such level that can be directly observed by the characters.
- 15,332
- 7,563
- Thread starter
- #102
We don't need for it to be observed by the characters? Afterall the vast majority of the game is about traveling between the realms. The fact that there are depictions of galaxies in several murals, like the shrines in Jotnar (which are depicting the sky of the realms) is more than enough. Those are observations of the actual night-sky and cosmology.
- 87
- 9
Maybe you can bring up more proofs? If not I'm with Matthew.
- 32,359
- 20,298
We actually do need to do it. The galaxies in the murals do not, in any way shape or form, indicate that the realms contain galaxies, that the realm between realms contains galaxies (We don't even see stars in a non-ambiguous fashion!) and that galaxies in this cosmology are the same as real world cosmology.
There is literally zero proof that the cosmology of God of War is 100% equal to that of real world cosmology other than one statement which refers to moon and sun as celestial objects, which, as I explained before, does not necessarily mean they are the same size as planets and stars of the real world.
The origin myth for stars HEAVILY contradicts the notion that they are similar. Balls of plasm in continuous combustion light-years away are not made out of embers that fly out of a forge.
There is literally zero proof that the cosmology of God of War is 100% equal to that of real world cosmology other than one statement which refers to moon and sun as celestial objects, which, as I explained before, does not necessarily mean they are the same size as planets and stars of the real world.
The origin myth for stars HEAVILY contradicts the notion that they are similar. Balls of plasm in continuous combustion light-years away are not made out of embers that fly out of a forge.
- 15,332
- 7,563
- Thread starter
- #106
More proof? Of what, exactly?Death Dragon98 said:
- 32,359
- 20,298
Here's what I would need to be proven for this upgrade to be acceptable:
1. Conclusive evidence that planets, stars and galaxies in the Norse God of War Universe are equal to those of the real life scientific universe.
2. Conclusive evidence that Thor's fight with Jormungandr causing Yggdrasil to splinter is a universal feat, and it very arguably isn't.
3. Conclusive evidence that Ysmir's body was used to create the whole of the realms including space-time and not just the physical locations where the mortals and gods alike live, which given the way the story is narrated is far more likely.
1. Conclusive evidence that planets, stars and galaxies in the Norse God of War Universe are equal to those of the real life scientific universe.
2. Conclusive evidence that Thor's fight with Jormungandr causing Yggdrasil to splinter is a universal feat, and it very arguably isn't.
3. Conclusive evidence that Ysmir's body was used to create the whole of the realms including space-time and not just the physical locations where the mortals and gods alike live, which given the way the story is narrated is far more likely.
- 5,637
- 674
Why do you keep talking about embers flying out of a forge? I've heard that audio log and neither embers or a forge ls mentioned.Matthew Schroeder said:
- 32,359
- 20,298
As it stands, at most I see the realms as being 4-A in size because we actually do see stars in the sky. And even then that is a big most given the questionable nature of stars in the setting.
- 32,359
- 20,298
When you go to Muspellheim in-game Mimir explains that the stars were created with embers that flew off the fires of Muspellheim at the beginning of creation.Darkmon cns said:
Which is immediately dismissed as ridiculous with Mimir himself admitting that "Muspellheim has cooled a lot since them".
- 15,332
- 7,563
- Thread starter
- #111
> We actually do need to do it. The galaxies in the murals do not, in any way shape or form, indicate that the realms contain galaxies, that the realm between realms contains galaxies (We don't even see stars in a non-ambiguous fashion!) and that galaxies in this cosmology are the same as real world cosmology.
1
2
3
4
5
> There is literally zero proof that the cosmology of God of War is 100% equal to that of real world cosmology other than one statement which refers to moon and sun as celestial objects, which, as I explained before, does not necessarily mean they are the same size as planets and stars of the real world.
Except the burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise. I have already provided all the images and a WoG that states the stars are the same size as in the real world. You have yet to provide anything when so far everything has been consistent.
> Balls of plasm in continuous combustion light-years away are not made out of embers that fly out of a forge.
This has been debunked. Please stop mentioning this when none of the scans say this is what happened.
1
2
3
4
5
> There is literally zero proof that the cosmology of God of War is 100% equal to that of real world cosmology other than one statement which refers to moon and sun as celestial objects, which, as I explained before, does not necessarily mean they are the same size as planets and stars of the real world.
Except the burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise. I have already provided all the images and a WoG that states the stars are the same size as in the real world. You have yet to provide anything when so far everything has been consistent.
> Balls of plasm in continuous combustion light-years away are not made out of embers that fly out of a forge.
This has been debunked. Please stop mentioning this when none of the scans say this is what happened.
- 5,423
- 1,073
I agree with Kepekly's argument and points more. The argument that these realms are merely planets is weird. It seems like a very strained burden of proof when the evidence is pretty sound from my point of view anyway.
- 15,332
- 7,563
- Thread starter
- #113
Also, reminder that in God of War there is a difference between gods that embody stars and the stars themselves. For example, in God of War: Chains of Olympus we are shown that the Greek Universe's Sun appears to be only a chariot being carried into the sky, but that's actually just a personification of Helios's light as explained in both 3 and by WoG, and the actual Sun, a ball of plasma, still exists in the sky.
- 32,359
- 20,298
Looking at the supposed 5 scans of evidence...
First one only shows simplified stars in the sky, represented by crossing lines. Not a proof of realistic stars in the slightest.
Same thing, nothing here to see whatsoever
Same...
Again...
Yep.
Seriously, do you believe that those two crossed curved lines are representing a spiral galaxy? Because that's positively a huge leap of logic if I ever saw one. The burden of proof to indicate that they are conclusively galaxies is yours, and please don't attempt to invert the burden, as you are the one with the extraordinary claim which requires extraordinary evidence to be backed up.
Secondly...
No single scan states that. As I keep reiterating, a single scan calling the moon and the sun "celestial bodies" does not, in any way, shape, or form, indicate that the whole universe follows a real world cosmology. When even you admit that it doesn't.
And yes, when you go to Muspellheim in-game we are given a statement about the origin of stars which severely contradicts this "scientific universe" notion which is being pushed.
First one only shows simplified stars in the sky, represented by crossing lines. Not a proof of realistic stars in the slightest.
Same thing, nothing here to see whatsoever
Same...
Again...
Yep.
Seriously, do you believe that those two crossed curved lines are representing a spiral galaxy? Because that's positively a huge leap of logic if I ever saw one. The burden of proof to indicate that they are conclusively galaxies is yours, and please don't attempt to invert the burden, as you are the one with the extraordinary claim which requires extraordinary evidence to be backed up.
Secondly...
No single scan states that. As I keep reiterating, a single scan calling the moon and the sun "celestial bodies" does not, in any way, shape, or form, indicate that the whole universe follows a real world cosmology. When even you admit that it doesn't.
And yes, when you go to Muspellheim in-game we are given a statement about the origin of stars which severely contradicts this "scientific universe" notion which is being pushed.
- 32,359
- 20,298
What exactly is the point? No such distinction was evr pointed out in the series prior to God of War 3, with Helios' temple literally being the sun which falls of the sky when he is taken down by Atlas in Chains of Olympus.Kepekley23 said:
Meanwhile Mimir (Or Atreus, I forgot) outright say that the moon and sun are two siblings riding chariots being chased by rabid wolves.
- 15,332
- 7,563
- Thread starter
- #116
> When you go to Muspellheim in-game Mimir explains that the stars were created with embers that flew off the fires of Muspellheim at the beginning of creation.
Mimir doesn't say that at all, actually.
Mimir doesn't say that at all, actually.
- 15,332
- 7,563
- Thread starter
- #117
> Meanwhile Mimir (Or Atreus, I forgot) outright say that the moon and sun are two siblings riding chariots being chased by rabid wolves.
No, he doesn't. That's yet another distinction that is made.
First of all, the chariots that are being carried are actually the two horses carrying the goddesses Sól and Luna, which clarified to be the children of Mundilfari. They are merely embodiments. However, the actual Sun with a capital S was conjured by Surtr. This is directly stated.
No, he doesn't. That's yet another distinction that is made.
First of all, the chariots that are being carried are actually the two horses carrying the goddesses Sól and Luna, which clarified to be the children of Mundilfari. They are merely embodiments. However, the actual Sun with a capital S was conjured by Surtr. This is directly stated.
- 32,359
- 20,298
Talk to me bout this on Discord Kep.
- 5,637
- 674
Why do you keep on going to discord? You have to post the arguments publicly eventually?Matthew Schroeder said:
- Status
Similar threads
