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God of War: Norse Pantheon Revisions

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Wonderful derail, IMade. Elder Scrolls Online: Summerset literally deals with you having to stop the Goddess of Darkness Nocturnal from utilizing a metaphysical anchor for existence to consume the multiverse and become infinite.

If you have anything worthwhile to contribute to the discussion that isn't an attempt to "expose" or discredit me, I would appreciate it.
 
Maybe Kratos shouldn't scale to this but Thor and the World Serpent should.

Baldur knocking the serpent out with one punch is an outlier anyway
 
Xtasyamphetamine said:
Maybe Kratos shouldn't scale to this but Thor and the World Serpent should.

Baldur knocking the serpent out with one punch is an outlier anyway
Click to expand...
Uh, no. Kratos is outright stated to be equal to Thor.
 
Characters being upgraded based off of the true lore feats is something extremely common. Digimon characters are Tier 2 and Tier 1 based off of their lore feats, such as creating and destroying universal dimensions or transcending time and space, despite the fact that the AoE feats only extend to Tier 6 and 5, generously. And Etemon's best AoE feat by far is warping a mountain rang.

Trying to use "scale" as an argument is terrible either way. In God of War smaller concentrated AoE can actually mean you're stronger.
 
The lore with Surtur and the stars is the most consistent and reliable part of all this. I find the Ymir feats to be the most questionable and discussable.
 
I'm overall rather neutral to this all honestly, but 4-A seems more sensible to me right now. But if everyone agrees to a "likely 2-C", fine by me.

As for what IMade said, in many ways what is being shown can always seem immensely disconnected by the pure visuals, but there's always a limit to how overt you can make things on a scale as big as this and especially when it's not what you want to focus on.

But personally, I am just kinda left in a blank because... It just kind of feels disconnected. Its hard to explain.
 
I mean, I know it's legit, I just don't like how the profiles scale him to Balder who hit the Midgard serpent with PIS alot of times
 
DMUA said:
I mean, I know it's legit, I just don't like how the profiles scale him to Balder who hit the Midgard serpent with PIS alot of times
Click to expand...
How is it PIS? Thor has nothing to suggest he is multifolds stronger than Baldur. And multiple statements have Kratos scale to Thor either way, there's really no other way to go about it in this case.
 
Previous prejudice that's now overrided by the wrath of Canon novels
 
Never thought this would even be remotely considered.... Ever. I'm going to stay Neutral with my opinion for now.

My main question is : When was Kratos ever compared to Thor in the game ? Was it Baldur duing some off-hand statement about his strength during his fight ?
 
We should apply the upgrades now. Not only does the vast majority completely agree with Kep's arguments, he has responded immediately and efficiently to every point brought up against his case in this thread while the other side has just been pretty much circular. At this point it's just a matter of delaying when the upgrades will actually take place, to be honest. "At least 4-A, likely 2-C" is the consensus. And those who scale are:

  • Kratos
  • Thor
  • Baldur
And possibly Atreus after his realization.
 
just to be sure. But so far i agree with this upgrade, also kratos (2018) need huge revision regarding power and abilities
 
@Kep Thank you. Now I know this fact.

I do agree with Atreus scaling. He very clearly holds his own against Baldur after realizing he's a God and his arrows harmed him and staggered Baldur. He even notably yels in pain . Not to mention he should be via summoning the World Serpent.
 
Sounds like just derailing the inevitable if I do say so myself, to be honest.

And yes - Dad Kratos needs a revision of his abilities. He should still have Power of BS Kratos's resurrection, since the novels repeat that his curse made him unkillable & one of the interviews we use to cement that is literally talking about Dad Kratos.

When Kratos killed himself with the Blade of Olympus he did not actually release all of Hope to the world, there is still some of it on him. He should honestly keep most of his acquired resistances with a "likely" attached to them.
 
So, this is how I envision the profiles looking (I will likely replace everything with the correct scans) when or if it's all accepted:

Thor: At least Multi-Solar System level, likely Low Multiverse level (His first fight with the World Serpent shook all Nine Realms. Splintered the World Tree, a construct that transcends time and space in all of the realms and contains them within its branches, in his second fight with the Serpent. Fought evenly with the Fire Giant Surtr, who created all the stars in all the realms and is prophesized to destroy all nine realms in Ragnarok and actually destroyed them in the World Serpent's future)

Kratos: At least Multi-Solar System level, likely Low Multiverse level (Consistently defeats Baldur, who is able to fight and knock out the World Serpent. His Leviathan Axe is stated to be equal in power to Thor's Mjolnir. The Blades of Chaos, which infuse Kratos with their power when used, are stated to be much more powerful than the Leviathan Axe and Mjolnir by Brok. Can close Realm Tears, which are stated to threaten the fabric of any given realms, with his bare hands)

Baldur: At least Multi-Solar System level, likely Low Multiverse level (Knocked out the World Serpent and consistently fights evenly with Kratos)

I am very uncertain if Atreus is actually scalable considering the whole shtick is that he lands a hit and proceeds to get pretty much steamrolled. Did he ever truly fight anyone?
 
He does contribute several shots to Baldur's defeat, though.
 
Also, when Atreus stabbed and kicked Modi he had already been beaten to near-death by Thor.
 
Sorry about this little derail but I've not yet played this God of War and only watch the full game once so forgive me but this would imply that this older Kratos became that much more powerful than his younger self... Is that even implyed in the game? Seems like a massive jump to me.

Did he train or get a power boost?.
 
It's controversial. While Kratos is actually stated or implied by at least three different sources to have actually become weaker in his old age, he possesses much, much greater feats and powerscaling even while lowballing his ratings, and since feats surpass statements, I would personally not try and scale Kratos when he was the pantheon soloer to Dad of Boi Kratos.

The only feat which approaches the feats in the Norse Realms would be Uranus's feat of creating the universe and Cronos defeating him, but we currently treat that as an outlier unless you take into account this old upgrade thread, and I'm personally NOT straying into that shitstorm myself.
 
Kepekley23 said:
So, this is how I envision the profiles looking (I will likely replace everything with the correct scans) when or if it's all accepted:
Thor: At least Multi-Solar System level, likely Low Multiverse level (His first fight with the World Serpent shook all Nine Realms. Splintered the World Tree, a construct that transcends time and space in all of the realms and contains them within its branches, in his second fight with the Serpent. Fought evenly with the Fire Giant Surtr, who created all the stars in all the realms and is prophesized to destroy all nine realms in Ragnarok and actually destroyed them in the World Serpent's future)

Kratos: At least Multi-Solar System level, likely Low Multiverse level (Consistently defeats Baldur, who is able to fight and knock out the World Serpent. His Leviathan Axe is stated to be equal in power to Thor's Mjolnir. The Blades of Chaos, which infuse Kratos with their power when used, are stated to be much more powerful than the Leviathan Axe and Mjolnir by Brok. Can close Realm Tears, which are stated to threaten the fabric of any given realms, with his bare hands)

Baldur: At least Multi-Solar System level, likely Low Multiverse level (Knocked out the World Serpent and consistently fights evenly with Kratos)

I am very uncertain if Atreus is actually scalable considering the whole shtick is that he lands a hit and proceeds to get pretty much steamrolled. Did he ever truly fight anyone?
Click to expand...
Looks good, I am fine with this.
 
While personally I think it would be fine to scale this to the Greek pantheon and younger Kratos I can understand why many people would be iffy about it. At least 4-A, likely 2-C or just 4-A (Dunno if the 2-C stuff will be fully accepted yet) for the Norse pantheon and 2018 Kratos looks good.
 
I honestly don't see the problem scaling Atreus to this. Fighting Baldur was one of his best showings on panel and remember he staggers Baldur during his fight, even yelping in pain upon every arrow landing . And remember Modi even while heavily weakened can still put up a massive fight against Kratos... Albeit was defeated. If anything " At least 4-A , possibly 2-C " is better than just saying Unknown or something. Especially considering he's nowhere near his full potential as a God yet.
 
Yea, I'm going to disagree with this. I'm ok with destroying it would be 2-C feat, but most of these reasonings are nonsensical to apply this towards.

"Let's take a look at the actual feats with the knowledge that the realms are being treated incorrectly, shall we? Thor's first fight with the World Serpent could be felt from all the realms. This is a blatantly Tier 2 feat with the cosmology of each of the realms in mind. "

As Matthew stated earlier, shacking the realms shouldn't even be remotely considered 2-C. The simple degree difference of shacking them, and destroying them - Are two whole separate matters. I can shack a huge Universe - Doesn't mean I can now destroy the Universe now. It should be an Unquantifiable in this given scenario.

"Thor's second fight with the World Serpent is so massive in scale that it actually splinters Yggdrasil itself. If the former feat was questionable, this one is a blatant, in-your-face feat. "

Like the first one, Splintering isn't the equivalent to destroying. I can splinter a tree with a small ax - Does this now mean the ax should be considering something around 9-A?

"Ymir and Odin's fight creating a flood that threatened to wipe out all of creation and the realms themselves. "

Matthew still explained what was wrong with this, for trying to justify that they should be 2-C from this reasoning.

"Mimir states that Surtr's sword is prophesized to lead to the epicenter of Ragnarok. When he is struck down by Thor and Odin, while in his dying state, he strikes a blow with his sword which destroys Asgard, as well as leaves the whole world to be reborn anew. The context of "the world" is clarified by the triptych prophecies of Ragnarok, which refer to Surtr's actions as "the death and rebirth of the universe". "

Okay, this is a nice justification for 2-C. However - It's unclear if Surtr should even scale to his Sword when it comes to his Durability, and it's not ever stated Thor could ever even survive a direct strike from the sword. Until more is known about their fight, I think it's best to keep it unknown.
 
> As Matthew stated earlier, shacking the realms shouldn't even be remotely considered 2-C. The simple degree difference of shacking them, and destroying them - Are two whole separate matters. I can shack a huge Universe - Doesn't mean I can now destroy the Universe now.

Except shaking multiple timelines is 2-C. We had a thread on this.

> Like the first one, Splintering isn't the equivalent to destroying. I can splinter a tree with a small ax - Does this now mean the ax should be considering something around 9-A?

Did you read the blog I linked? Yggdrasil transcends all of the realms and their space-times ands its very existence supports the existence of the realms. Splintering Yggdrasil is at the very least a 2-C feat. It is not an actual tree in the literal sense. When it was splintered it actually distorted time throughout all realms, which is how the World Serpent ended up being accidentally sent back in time.

And this is a splintered tree

> Matthew still explained what was wrong with this, for trying to justify that they should be 2-C from this reasoning.

The counter-argument got debunked. Mimir himself supports and states that Ymir's blood is cosmic in scale before the feat is recounted. And the argument against it is literally "it is ridiculous to assume that what Mimir said is true, we should assume it is done through other than means". That's not reasonable.

> Okay, this is a nice justification for 2-C. However - It's unclear if Surtr should even scale to his Sword when it comes to his Durability, and it's not ever stated Thor could ever even survive a direct strike from the sword. Until more is known about their fight, I think it's best to keep it unknown.

How is it unclear again? It is literally stated that Surtur hones his sword every day in order to slay the Aesir when Ragnarok comes, and even then Thor and Odin manage to defeat him and while he is dying he uses his sword to perform the feat. This is extremely clear-cut.
 
Giygas raises a lot of good points. I think that "At least 4-A" is much safer because of this. There will be more GoW Games in the future and this lore will become clearer then.
 
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