God of War CRT: Scales of Olympus

[Fixxed]

As much as we'd like to believe that'd be the case, Thor straight-up debunks this notion. He repeatedly mocks Kratos for holding back the way he does.

Hell, he doesn't make light of Ares' strikes, Poseidon's strikes, Hades' strikes or even Cronos' strikes, despite already possessing a massive power gap over them. Kratos doesn't have a habit of mocking his enemies unless they do the most deplorable of shit.


Ares punches Kratos repeatedly in the GoW1 Final boss fight. Poseidon's moveset consists of powerful downward punches against Kratos and hand smacks. Hades has stomps and his arm slams as well. To say that they don't physically punch for the comparsion to refer to them anyway is just simply put, wrong.


Fury Rage doesn't get disabled by Thor. Valor Rage is only defensive and isn't meant to last long anyway. Herc straight up disables Rage of Sparta with his most casual hits.

There's also another problem that a lot of Kratos' other runic attacks are straight up not stopped by anything Thor does. But those can be chalked up as game mechanics I suppose.


Except it doesn't. Refer to the fact that his next strongest form while depowered is right after he walks out of the Styx to then fight Hades.


That was just one punch. Not a brutal volley. Poseidon and Hades got a full volley and they weren't one-shotted either, but they were still nonetheless bullied. Same thing would've happened here if Kratos decided to take it one step further and not stop.

His final fight makes this painfully obvious, where he's a lot more serious now and his attacks do way more to Thor than they did before, even without arguing skill, and Kratos isn't bloodlusted here.


Being fully confident doesn't mean you'd win the fight tho.


1. This is still not a Bloodlusted Kratos at play.

2. If we're using QTEs, then we can use the same argument for Poseidon, he can kill you if you fail to push him off in the QTEs as well.

3. The Leviathan does damage to Thor's stomach despite its runic magic being depleted. Blades of Chaos are stated to be stronger even in their worst state in the hands of a 2018 Kratos.


Eh, don't think that works. Lemme explain.

Kratos is filled up the ass with combat skill, nobody denied that, but at the end of the day, in the final fight, he's not as bloodlusted as when we see him lunge at Thor, and he's still doing that kind of damage to Thor while maintaining control over himself. So imagine what happens next if he truly does go bloodlusted. Mimir straight up warns him not to lose control like last time.


That's a Zeus vs Odin comparison. Nothing about Kratos. That's another tweet. Which then gets contradicted later onwards.

We also have the devs stating that Thor could at the very least hold his own against Poseidon's Hippocamps, who are basically extensions of Poseidon's water self. Granted, it's not a cap by any means but it's still something to be noted.

And before anyone says "This is just Bruno saying "Play it for yourself to find out"", I should note that the first tweet is also a tweet that was made a full year before Ragnarok came out.


Like, if you still wanna argue the tooth being less damaging than the BoC slam, one should note that Kratos didn't immediately go landing an all-out volley on Thor. And let's not forget that Kratos is still training to maintain control of his rage and have better access to his full potential without losing himself. Plus, Blades of Chaos being stronger than either Leviathan or Mjolnir doing Thor damage.


Again, Kratos doesn't have any of his magic to actually counter Odin's magical stuff. If it was just an all-out physical brawl, Odin is in for a wipeout.


Thor can't neg Fury Rage, Herc straight up negs Rage of Sparta.


This is fine.

Yeah agree with this. Rage kratos>>>normal kratos

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Anyway, I'm in agreement with the overall scale as long as it's End of III Base Zeus > Odin instead of >=, 'cause like, there's not much to go around to put him up as "sorta equal" or neck-and-neck like the Kratos and Thor case here, and Bruno's stuff in this specific case is not conclusive enough.

What's your reason for that not being a possibility?

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Looked at the whole thread. I agree with the OP

 

[KLOL506]

What's your reason for that not being a possibility?

The fact that Bruno's tweet here isn't as concrete as the other ones we use from him regarding the other aspects of the verse for reclarification.

Granted, they're still comparable, but ultimately Odin just ends up being weaker, even if it's not a terrifically large gap to bother about (Until Zeus' AD kicks in of course so it's a non-starter).

 

[Planck69]

Anyway, I'm in agreement with the overall scale as long as it's End of III Base Zeus > Odin instead of >=, 'cause like, there's not much to go around to put him up as "sorta equal" or neck-and-neck like the Kratos and Thor case here, and Bruno's stuff in this specific case is not conclusive enough.

He upscales from Thor, to whom Hercules is comparable in that chain, as well as Ragnarok Kratos handily.

There's not much of a gap between Hercules and End of III Zeus at all. No power up or notable fight happens between them at all.

So, with that in mind, where is this gap coming from? They quite literally upscale the exact same way so the fixation on the tweet is weird to me.

Unless you still disagree with that part of the chain (Thor = Hercules) in which case, we're back to square one.

 

[Eseseso]

He upscales from Thor, to whom Hercules is comparable in that chain, as well as Ragnarok Kratos handily.

There's not much of a gap between Hercules and End of III Zeus at all. No power up or notable fight happens between them at all.

Didn't Hercules match pre-Hope Kratos who matched End of III Zeus?

So, with that in mind, where is this gap coming from? They quite literally upscale the exact same way so the fixation on the tweet is weird to me.

Unless you still disagree with that part of the chain in which case, we're back to square one.

Also, how would you say Thor now scales to Hercules after all our discussing?

 

[Planck69]

Didn't Hercules match pre-Hope Kratos who matched End of III Zeus?

Kratos passively gets stronger by an unknown amount. which was boosted with Hades' soul. So like, he's stronger to an unknown degree when he faces Zeus but we have zero reason or proof for it being a massive gap.

Also, how would you say Thor now scales to Hercules after all our discussing?

If this thread passes, dead even.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

If this thread passes, dead even.

rivals to the bitter end, no matter the verse

 

[Eseseso]

rivals to the bitter end, no matter the verse

Speaking of, if this CRT passes, will we remove the Hercules vs Thor thread?

 

[Planck69]

Speaking of, if this CRT passes, will we remove the Hercules vs Thor thread?

Essentially, yes. The current one is an AP stomp so Idk why we even keep it.

 

[Liquid_Bigb0ss]

The only thing I have to add to this is…

Hades has a normal stomp attack in GOW3

Spoiler

Don’t take this seriously

 

[KLOL506]

He upscales from Thor, to whom Hercules is comparable in that chain, as well as Ragnarok Kratos handily.

There's not much of a gap between Hercules and End of III Zeus at all. No power up or notable fight happens between them at all.

Zeus undergoes another boost during the fight.

 

[Planck69]

Zeus undergoes another boost during the fight.

I am referring to Zeus as he was when that fight starts. I guess that can be confusing.

 

[KLOL506]

I am referring to Zeus as he was when that fight starts. I guess that can be confusing.

End of III Base Zeus would be right before Kratos shish-kebabs him. There are a number of recovery-based boosts in between.

Seems like it'd need to be split based on those. Three stages in total.

Stage 1: Pre-boost right before Kratos and Zeus punch each other in the face.

Stage 2: Another boost right before Pandora's sacrifice

Stage 3: Recovery at Olympus lookout and Gaia's Heart.

 

[chosen]

Hmm leaning to dissagree for now fra

 

[Planck69]

End of III Base Zeus would be right before Kratos shish-kebabs him. There are a number of recovery-based boosts in between.

Seems like it'd need to be split based on those. Three stages in total.

Stage 1: Pre-boost right before Kratos and Zeus punch each other in the face.

Stage 2: Another boost right before Pandora's sacrifice

Stage 3: Recovery at Olympus lookout and Gaia's Heart.

I mean, even if we take these into account, then what? They're unquantifiable beyond "much stronger than before".

I'd rather not take Zeus as right before he's killed but eh, shows what I know. Even with that, you just have it as;

Zeus is stronger than he was when he initially fought and got beat up by Kratos, who was nebulously stronger than Hercules.

Odin is stronger than Ragnarok Kratos, who was nebulously stronger than Thor.

 

[KLOL506]

I mean, even if we take these into account, then what? They're unquantifiable beyond "much stronger than before".

I'd rather not take Zeus as right before he's killed but eh, shows what I know. Even with that, you just have it as;

Zeus is stronger than he was when he initially fought and got beat up by Kratos, who was nebulously stronger than Hercules.

Odin is stronger than Ragnarok Kratos, who was nebulously stronger than Thor.

Hence, just the >.

 

[Planck69]

Hence, just the >.

I mean, so long as they're initially comparable despite that then sure.

 

[KLOL506]

I mean, so long as they're initially comparable despite that then sure.

Pre-boost? Sure, the >= can work there.

Post-boost is where it becomes >.

 

[Dienomite22]

I'm neutral

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Neutral on this so far, I think KLOL's response makes sense

 

[BlastX]

Just change the scaling chain to "End Of 3 begining of final boss Zeus=>Odin" and leave everything else the same and that's it.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

The entire premise of the thread began because the top of the scale to the developers is Odin=Zeus. They left it purposefully ambiguous and left it to the fanbase to decide who would win between them and debate about it, cause to them the two are just relative, comparable, there is no notable gap between the two in their eyes.

Couple this with the fact they deem Ragnarok Kratos to be GoW 3 kratos tier and everything easily falls into place. It's outright uncanny how easily and sensible the scale becomes between the two pantheons with this in mind, it makes you wonder if the devs purposefully made it this even. Then you get the in-canon statement about thor hitting as hard as anyone has hit kratos before and it just seals it. This in-verse scale is the one that is blatantly pushed thy devs and the games.

 

[Ped2018]

Extremely common Pariah W

 

[KLOL506]

The entire premise of the thread began because the top of the scale to the developers is Odin=Zeus. They left it purposefully ambiguous and left it to the fanbase to decide who would win between them and debate about it, cause to them the two are just relative, comparable, there is no notable gap between the two in their eyes.

Couple this with the fact they deem Ragnarok Kratos to be GoW 3 kratos tier and everything easily falls into place. It's outright uncanny how easily and sensible the scale becomes between the two pantheons with this in mind, it makes you wonder if the devs purposefully made it this even. Then you get the in-canon statement about thor hitting as hard as anyone has hit kratos before and it just seals it. This in-verse scale is the one that is blatantly pushed thy devs and the games.

We've already gone in-depth about this as much as we possibly could. Them leaving the scale ambiguous purposefully ambiguous really doesn't make it anymore concrete.

Thing is, the gap exists. That much we're done talking about.

 

[Eseseso]

At the very least, that tweet saying Kratos is "as strong as he's ever been" should be considered as implying that Ragnarok Kratos is comparable to his pre-Hope self.

 

[MarcusTCicero]

So based on OP's assertions what how big would the gap be between a bloodlusted Kratos and a full power Kratos that isn't bloodlusted?

 

[KLOL506]

Just change the scaling chain to "End Of 3 begining of final boss Zeus=>Odin" and leave everything else the same and that's it.

I mean, that's what I suggested. End of 3 post-boosts Zeus would be > than Odin without the >=.

At the very least, that tweet saying Kratos is "as strong as he's ever been" should be considered as implying that Ragnarok Kratos is comparable to his pre-Hope self.

I mean, we know this, the only issue is assuming that Kratos is that level normally without going bloodlusted given everything else we're shown, which is where Obi has an issue with.

And we've already discussed this to death. Even the OP admits there is a gap, albeit not as previously large as thought. Obi straight up refuses there to be a gap.

 

[KLOL506]

So based on OP's assertions what how big would the gap be between a bloodlusted Kratos and a full power Kratos that isn't bloodlusted?

This would be the scale taking everything into account discussed in the thread:

Peak Greek Era Kratos (Pre-Hope) >= End of III Base Zeus (Post-Boost) > End of III Base Zeus (Pre-Boost) >= Odin > Ragnarok Kratos = Freya >= Thor = Hercules = Jormugandr >= Ragnarok >>>> Poseidon

Considerably smaller than before, but still there.

We assume Bloodlusted Ragnarok Kratos to be equal to his Peak Greek Era self.

 

[Eseseso]

This would be the scale taking everything into account discussed in the thread:

Peak Greek Era Kratos (Pre-Hope) >= End of III Base Zeus (Post-Boost) > End of III Base Zeus (Pre-Boost) >= Odin > Ragnarok Kratos = Freya >= Thor = Hercules = Jormugandr >= Ragnarok >>>> Poseidon

Considerably smaller than before, but still there.

We assume Bloodlusted Ragnarok Kratos to be equal to his Peak Greek Era self.

For Zeus's boost, are you referring to his Zenkai's.

Rest of this scaling chain looks fine to me, btw.

Also, will we remove the Hercules vs Thor thread due to this AP change? Because now Thor dominates with versatility.

 

[KLOL506]

For Zeus's boost, are you referring to his Zenkai's.

Yeah.

Also, will we remove the Hercules vs Thor thread due to this AP change?

Ye, might have to be redone again.

Because now Thor dominates with versatility.

Eh, not really, Herc is still much more skilled in combat, can stun equally-strong foes with his Cestuses' shockwaves and despite his size he can still move around extremely quickly to dodge most of Thor's attacks. Thor's versatility really stems from his flight and Mjolnir flying about. It ends up being a high-diff for Herc this time around.

 

[Eseseso]

Yeah.


Ye, might have to be redone again.


Eh, not really, Herc is still much more skilled in combat, can stun equally-strong foes with his Cestuses' shockwaves and despite his size he can still move around extremely quickly to dodge most of Thor's attacks. Thor's versatility really stems from his flight and Mjolnir flying about. It ends up being a high-diff for Herc this time around.

Thor also has lightning for range and paralysis.

 

[Eseseso]

Also, if Odin fought either GoW2 or Pre-Zenkai GoW3 Zeus with Zeus NOT having RE/AD, does Odin stand a chance?

 

[KLOL506]

Thor also has lightning for range and paralysis.

All of which Herc can easily dodge.

 

[KLOL506]

Also, if Odin fought either GoW2 or Pre-Zenkai GoW3 Zeus with Zeus NOT having RE/AD, does Odin stand a chance?

Prolly not. Odin gets haxstomped without Zeus even needing to be in front of Odin.

 

[Eseseso]

Prolly not. Odin gets haxstomped without Zeus even needing to be in front of Odin.

Fair.

What about Freya? She has better soul resistance than Odin IIRC.

 

[KLOL506]

Fair.

What about Freya? She has better soul resistance than Odin IIRC.

Power Null proves to be her ultimate doom.

 

[Eseseso]

Power Null proves to be her ultimate doom.

Fair.

God, I wish there were more 2-C GoW female characters I could pit Freya up against.

The only other 9-universe female is Gaia (via downscaling from Poseidon, also Cronos implied that out of all the people he knew only Kratos could kill Gaia), and Freya one-shots her.

 

[Planck69]

This would be the scale taking everything into account discussed in the thread:

Peak Greek Era Kratos (Pre-Hope) >= End of III Base Zeus (Post-Boost) > End of III Base Zeus (Pre-Boost) >= Odin > Ragnarok Kratos = Freya >= Thor = Hercules = Jormugandr >= Ragnarok >>>> Poseidon

Considerably smaller than before, but still there.

We assume Bloodlusted Ragnarok Kratos to be equal to his Peak Greek Era self.

Can I put you on agree now, if you agree with the above?

And I will stress this, whatever gap there is between Odin and peak Zeus now isn't a oneshot. In fact, it's not even 2 times as much anymore, at least in any discernable metric. Just saying this so I don't see people mistakenly use the above to argue "lmao fight starts and Zeus sneezes".

 

[KLOL506]

Can I put you on agree now, if you agree with the above?

Yeah, as long as the above chain is what goes.

And I will stress this, whatever gap there is between Odin and peak Zeus now isn't a oneshot. In fact, it's not even 2 times as much anymore, at least in any discernable metric. Just saying this so I don't see people mistakenly use the above to argue "lmao fight starts and Zeus sneezes".

Sure, my argument was, Odin would still ultimately get decisively beaten by Zeus with little effort instead of whatever "even-ness" between them was being suggested regardless of the similarities in their power-sets.