Minor God of War Removal

[RH0904]

I seriously wonder what in the actual heck are you talking about??

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

It seems quite clear that the novel just contradicts the games. IIRC the novels are secondary canon anyways, so just toss out that one scene and we'll be good to go.

 

[Deagonx]

This novel came out after Ghost of Sparta. It references the side games, Chains of Olympus specifically, as well.

This is a nothing burger of an assumption.

I'm not claiming Ghost of Sparta came later. The fact that Ghost of Sparta contradicts it does not change what the text very blatantly says, and the fact that it matches the original myth makes that interpretation inarguable.

This is -- unsurprisingly -- a continuation of the thematic lack of sensible media interpretation that haunts these threads. The narrative progression of the conversation alone cements its meaning, let alone the matching myth. Point being, any interpretation of the "she sunk a continent" statement that isn't referring to her sinking Atlantis with war is just blatantly wrong. If you're content to persist in this collective fiction that it means something else so that you can pretend Fates can just arbitrarily sink continents, I guess no one can stop you?

 

[Planck69]

.....So, you agree that war sinking Atlantis doesn't make sense there? Since the game would take precedent in that scenario.

 

[KLOL506]

It seems quite clear that the novel just contradicts the games. IIRC the novels are secondary canon anyways, so just toss out that one scene and we'll be good to go.

What the hell are you even talking about.

Nowhere does that scene even remotely refer to Atlantis being sunk to war, even the way Deagon quoted it is weird. The fact that Chains of Olympus is referenced to begin with should tell you that you are both basing your arguments off of pure speculation and headcanon.

Chapter One: Zeus and Hades literally remind Poseidon of what Kratos did to Atlantis. GoW3 does it before. Still 1:1 with the myth?



Y'all really need to research your stuff better.

 

[Planck69]

Honestly, can we sum up what we're discussing? First it was the validity of the feats for biological manipulation then it became whether or not the other Fates can do as Clotho does and now we're discussing if they affect structures directly?

 

[Omegabronic]

honestly, i am confused, how does the means for Atlantis sinking matter for Bio Manip again?

 

[KLOL506]

honestly, i am confused, how does the means for Atlantis sinking matter for Bio Manip again?

IDK, we've strayed too far from the original topic of the twins and the animal+mortal lovers.

 

[Deagonx]

.....So, you agree that war sinking Atlantis doesn't make sense there? Since the game would take precedent in that scenario.

What do you mean by "make sense there?" If a work with higher canon priority contradicts it, it's fine to regard it as non-canon, but the fact remains that this is what the author wrote and what the text as written very blatantly means.

It isn't ambiguous. Atropos says she's using war, Clotho disapproves, Atropos says "I sunk a contintent this way" and Clotho says "Atlantis wasn't worth the effort."

The continent she sunk with war in this case is very blatantly Atlantis. Atlantis is a island that sunk due to war in the original myth. Is this the canon explanation about Atlantis? No. Is that what the author meant? Undoubtedly. No other interpretation of this is possible. The only alternative proposed makes the entire conversation nonsensical.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Bio hax is getting removed regardless, so I'm just gonna shut up and wait. See you all in 12 hours.

(this didn't need to be 9 fucking pages long btw)

 

[Planck69]

What the hell are you even talking about.

Nowhere does that scene even remotely refer to Atlantis being sunk to war, even the way Deagon quoted it is weird. The fact that Chains of Olympus is referenced to begin with should tell you that you are both basing your arguments off of pure speculation and headcanon.

Chapter One: Zeus and Hades literally remind Poseidon of what Kratos did to Atlantis. GoW3 does it before. Still 1:1 with the myth?



Y'all really need to research your stuff better.

Well, there we go then. Clear and concise and matches up with Ghost of Sparta perfectly. Atlantis was sunk by Kratos due to his actions in freeing Theia.

 

[KLOL506]

What do you mean by "make sense there?" If a work with higher canon priority contradicts it, it's fine to regard it as untrue, but the fact remains that this is what the author wrote and what the text as written very blatantly means.

It isn't ambiguous. Atropos says she's using war, Clotho disapproves, Atropos says "I sunk a contintent this way" and Clotho says "Atlantis wasn't worth the effort."

The continent she sunk with war in this case is very blatantly Atlantis. Atlantis is a island that sunk due to war in the original myth. Is this canon? No. Is that what the author meant? Undoubtedly. No other interpretation of this is possible.

So you just blatantly ignored what I said about the novel stating blatantly in Chapter One that Kratos was the one responsible for sinking Atlantis, which harks back to his journey in Ghost of Sparta. Okay then.

 

[chosen]

Wait a second why atlantis sink discussion is even relevant exactly

 

[KLOL506]

Wait a second why atlantis sink discussion is even relevant exactly

Why are you asking me bruv.

 

[Deagonx]

So you just blatantly ignored what I said about the novel stating blatantly in Chapter One that Kratos was the one responsible for sinking Atlantis, which harks back to his journey in Ghost of Sparta. Okay then.

No, I'm not. I already referenced it. Are you going to even attempt to address any of my points or are you content to simply try and evade them with these kinds of non-sequiturs?

 

[Planck69]

How is a scan that directly debunks the proposal that "war sunk Atlantis" evading the question? Both the game and the novel reject that notion.

You even agree that the war thing wouldn't line up with canon so I'm not sure what answer you're expecting.

 

[chosen]

Why are you asking me bruv.

Asking in general. If it was You specifically would have replied or say your name

 

[Pepsimanslover_69]

I only brought continent sink to show how the sisters can affect stuff supernaturally, I didn't expect it to be this heated

 

[Deagonx]

Well, there we go then. Clear and concise and matches up with Ghost of Sparta perfectly. Atlantis was sunk by Kratos due to his actions in freeing Theia.

I am aware, I have already addressed this. This does not change the meaning of the conversation between Atropos and Clotho, which directly has Atropos saying she sunk Atlantis with war. The fact that the author contradicted himself does not change this.

How is a scan that directly debunks the proposal that "war sunk Atlantis" evading the question? Both the game and the novel reject that notion.

You even agree that the war thing wouldn't line up with canon so I'm not sure what answer you're expecting.

I'll say for the third time now, since you keep ignoring it to strawman me: I am not claiming this is the canon version of events. This is doubtlessly, however, what was meant in the conversation between Atropos and Clotho when Atropos claimed to have sunk a continent. Even if that is non-canon or contradicted elsewhere.

I expect, despite this, to be immediately responded to with "but that's not canon" for some reason, even though my point is about the meaning of the conversation about sinking a continent and not the official canon explanation for Atlantis sinking.

 

[Planck69]

I fail to see how you can "doubtlessly" assert a meaning that's rejected both in-game and less than 4 chapters before that point.

You strip away the pushy language and the cavalier attitude, and you don't have anything to say here, same as before. Your assertion implies that Atropos is either talking about an event with zero knowledge or somehow tricked mortals into sinking a landmass.

 

[KLOL506]

No, I'm not. I already referenced it. Are you going to even attempt to address any of my points or are you content to simply try and evade them with these kinds of non-sequiturs?

What points are there to tackle here. The novel itself debunks any notion that Atlantis sinking was due to war. IN THE FIRST CHAPTER.

Also if we look deeper into the line...

“What? You do not think well of my work this time, Clotho?”

This is just Atropos praising herself about her work and her skill with the Threads. Nothing about using war specifically to sink a continent. If anything, that line about War and new path to destruction is just explicitly referring to that mortal alone, again referring to her pride and skill in managing the threads.

If you wanna do it your way, nowhere in that scan you posted shows that Clotho mentioned war being the sole purpose of sinking a continent, let alone Atlantis. How the hell would a couple mortals fighting sink a continent to the depths of the ocean anyway?

 

[Omegabronic]

Bio hax is getting removed regardless, so I'm just gonna shut up and wait. See you all in 12 hours.

(this didn't need to be 9 fucking pages long btw)

not enough approval for that, we are in an impass

 

[KLOL506]

Also I still don't get why we're harping about the continent destruction anyway since that has nothing to do with the Bio Manip. Focus on the actual relevant scans at hand.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

not enough approval for that, we are in an impass

No we aren't, the majority of staff agree with removing biological manipulation.

 

[KLOL506]

A lot of the staff also agreed with simply replacing the scan, there's only a one vote advantage (Which is irrelevant here anyway because grace) that you still have to wait 12 hours from now to capitalize on, why are you trying to rush the thread before it's met a proper conclusion?

 

[Omegabronic]

No we aren't, the majority of staff agree with removing biological manipulation.

.....the difference between the one's with voting rights is only 1 vote, come on

 

[Deagonx]

I fail to see how you can "doubtlessly" assert a meaning that's rejected both in-game and less than 4 chapters before that point.

What points are there to tackle here. The novel itself debunks any notion that Atlantis sinking was due to war. IN THE FIRST CHAPTER.

Incredible, exactly as I predicted:

I expect, despite this, to be immediately responded to with "but that's not canon" for some reason, even though my point is about the meaning of the conversation about sinking a continent and not the official canon explanation for Atlantis sinking.

If, instead, you decide you'd like to engage with my points about what the conversation means instead of spamming that the author contradicted himself, I'm all ears.

Also if we look deeper into the line...

“What? You do not think well of my work this time, Clotho?”

This is just Atropos praising herself about her work and her skill with the Threads. Nothing about using war specifically to sink a continent.

If you wanna do it your way, nowhere in that scan you posted shows that Clotho mentioned war being the sole purpose of sinking a continent.

Well here's a good try!

You aren't looking deeper into the line there. You are cutting out the words around it to hide it's context.

Atropos says she's using war as part of the young ruler's fate, Clotho disapproves. Atropos says "Don't you think well of my work this time? I sunk a whole continent this way." Clotho says "Atlantis wasn't worth your effort."

Give it a try. Explain why Clotho brings up Atlantis out of nowhere if the "continent that sunk due to war" -- despite being the exact description of Atlantis in the original myth -- was not what Atropos was referring to and instead is referring to some Atlantis-unrelated war-unrelated sinking of a continent. Explain what Atropos meant by "this way" if not referring to war, the exact thing she just mentioned and Clotho disapproved of.

How the hell would a couple mortals fighting sink a continent anyway?

The same way a man and a cloud nymph sleeping together could create Centaurs. It's Greek myth. Regardless, even the GOW wiki page on Atlantis tells this version of events before getting into the Ghost of Sparta thing.

 

[Planck69]

We're not using another wiki as a reliable source, don't be silly.

 

[Deagonx]

We're not using another wiki as a reliable source, don't be silly.

Neither am I, don't be silly. This part of the Atlantis myth is common knowledge for those familiar with Greek mythology.

 

[Omegabronic]

Incredible, exactly as I predicted:


If, instead, you decide you'd like to engage with my points about what the conversation means instead of spamming that the author contradicted himself, I'm all ears.


Well here's a good try!

You aren't looking deeper into the line there. You are cutting out the words around it to hide it's context.

Atropos says she's using war as part of the young ruler's fate, Clotho disapproves. Atropos says "Don't you think well of my work this time? I sunk a whole continent this way." Clotho says "Atlantis wasn't worth your effort."

Give it a try. Explain why Clotho brings up Atlantis out of nowhere if the "continent that sunk due to war" -- despite being the exact description of Atlantis in the original myth -- was not what Atropos was referring to and instead is referring to some Atlantis-unrelated war-unrelated sinking of a continent. Explain what Atropos meant by "this way" if not referring to war, the exact thing she just mentioned and Clotho disapproved of.


The same way a man and a cloud nymph sleeping together could create Centaurs. It's Greek myth. Regardless, even the GOW wiki page on Atlantis tells this version of events before getting into the Ghost of Sparta thing.

let's just say people agreed with your notion about Atlantis' sinking......what does this change about the Biological Manip arguments?


y'all seem to have gotten a little too big out of topic imo

 

[KLOL506]

If, instead, you decide you'd like to engage with my points about what the conversation means instead of spamming that the author contradicted himself, I'm all ears.

Bruv. You're the one contradicting yourself here by ignoring what's said in Chapter One. The author didn't contradict anything, you're the one trying to twist it to make it sound like he did.

Well here's a good try!

You aren't looking deeper into the line there. You are cutting out the words around it to hide it's context.

Atropos says she's using war as part of the young ruler's fate, Clotho disapproves. Atropos says "Don't you think well of my work this time? I sunk a whole continent this way." Clotho says "Atlantis wasn't worth your effort."

Give it a try. Explain why Clotho brings up Atlantis out of nowhere if the "continent that sunk due to war" -- despite being the exact description of Atlantis in the original myth -- was not what Atropos was referring to and instead is referring to some Atlantis-unrelated war-unrelated sinking of a continent.

The fact that Kratos is literally told to be responsible for sinking Atlantis in the very first chapter and the fact that Clotho doesn't even mention the word "war" in that Atlantis line says all I need to know.

The same way a man and a cloud nymph ******* could create Centaurs. It's Greek myth. Regardless, even the GOW wiki page on Atlantis tells this version of events before getting into the Ghost of Sparta thing.

Are you actually using the GoW wiki to justify your argument? Come on man.

 

[KLOL506]

Neither am I, don't be silly. This part of the Atlantis myth is common knowledge for those familiar with Greek mythology.

Again, the very first chapter shoots your argument in the foot. Bruv, just stop, you aren't helping your case any further.

 

[Planck69]

Atlantis' main myth is well known, and non-canon. Something acknowledged by Poseidon himself in both media.

I fail to see how an interpretation of a conversation takes precedent over both main canon and the same novel confirming said canon events.

 

[Pepsimanslover_69]

Can we stop with the Atlantis shit? And the overly condensing tone? Can't we just have both sides write a summary about this shit and end ?

 

[KLOL506]

Anyway, this is massive derailing now, we should focus on the actual relevant scans at hand.

 

[Deagonx]

Bruv. You're the one contradicting yourself here by ignoring what's said in Chapter One. The author didn't contradict anything, you're the one trying to twist it to make it sound like he did.

If I am saying that the author contradicted himself, I am not "ignoring what is said in Chapter One." Chapter One's contents is literally the basis for saying he contradicted himself. Think these things through.

The fact that Kratos is literally told to be responsible for sinking Atlantis in the very first chapter and the fact that Clotho doesn't even mention the word "war" in that Atlantis line says it all to me.

Great, so no response, just pointing out again that the author contradicted himself.

If you come up with a response let me know.

Are you actually using the GoW wiki to justify your argument? Come on man.

No, just pointing out that this is common knowledge.

I fail to see how an interpretation of a conversation takes precedent over both main canon and the same novel confirming said canon events.

Boy oh boy! Another strawman. Let me remind you for the fifth time that my position is not that what Atropos said is canon.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

A lot of the staff also agreed with simply replacing the scan, there's only a one vote advantage (Which is irrelevant here anyway because grace) that you still have to wait 12 hours from now to capitalize on, why are you trying to rush the thread before it's met a proper conclusion?

Yeah, the staff that agreed with replacing the scan are in the "disagree" section. So even counting them, I still have the majority. I'm also gonna wait the full 12 hours, I was just saying I was aware the thread was accepted and was going to wait until tomorrow to apply the edits.

@Deagonx once the 48 hour grace period has passed, would it be acceptable for me to apply the edits?

 

[Planck69]

Then what even is the point of the conversation? Regardless of what Atropos meant, whether war or direct action, it has no bearing here. Its a decanonized interpretation of a feat so it plainly cannot be used. It's not even the only feat of direct nature manipulation by the Sisters, she manipulates a volcanoes fate not long after. What does this add to the current conversation?

 

[Omegabronic]

Yeah, the staff that agreed with replacing the scan are in the "disagree" section. So even counting them, I still have the majority. I'm also gonna wait the full 12 hours, I was just saying I was aware the thread was accepted and was going to wait until tomorrow to apply the edits.

@Deagonx once the 48 hour grace period has passed, would it be acceptable for me to apply the edits?

since when is a merely 1 vote difference enough to consider a thread "accepted"?

 

[Deagonx]

Then what even is the point of the conversation? Regardless of what Atropos meant, whether war or direct action, it has no bearing here. Its a decanonized interpretation of a feat so it plainly cannot be used. It's not even the only feat of direct nature manipulation by the Sisters, she manipulates a volcanoes fate not long after. What does this add to the current conversation?

It was suggested that Atropos can pluck a string and arbitrarily sink a continent. This whole argument started because I pointed out that this is not what Atropos said or did, as she explains that she sunk the continent using war, and Clotho immediately reveals that she's referring to Atlantis. The meaning of this conversation is very obvious, and the constant attempts to manipulate even the tiniest bits of literary ambiguity to endorse nonsensical interpretations like "Atropos can literally touch a string (which represents a mortal life) and cause a continent to randomly sink" are what led to the enduring argument. I was simply correcting a misunderstanding about what Atropos said.

@Deagonx once the 48 hour grace period has passed, would it be acceptable for me to apply the edits?

since when is a merely 1 vote difference enough to consider a thread "accepted"?

There is no rule on a required amount of vote differences. Only an amount of required votes.