Ghost of Uchiha VS Southcloud the First(lol) (1 - 2 - 2)

[Noneless21]

Alrite ladies and gentlemen, this is probably going to bite me back so hard all I can do is just laugh but I'm bored so I say **** it and proceed this vs match

Madara Uchiha VS Nagumo Hajime

Battle take place in some weird giant colosseum
Speed equalize
distance between one another is 100 meters
Juubidara and after-story Hajime key is being used

VS

Infinite Tsukuyomi GG : 1 (@XXKINGXX69)
Bloodlust GG : 2 (@Setsuna_tenma, @Ruijin)
Hajime somehow find me in RL and proceed to hunt me down I mean Incon : 2 (@Popted2, @Acer__)

WHO. WILL. WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNN!!!!!!!!!! Please don't be a stomp

 

[Livinmeme]

A i was just joking but ok... what can madara do against hajime passives???? Also what stopping hajime from using his multipliers and one tapping madara

 

[Noneless21]

Ya know what, he actually resist both of fear and madness manip but to what degree i dunno

 

[Noneless21]

Plus, both of them are actually pretty far apart so it probably will make some difference

 

[Livinmeme]

Also this could count as the as the strongest non smurf battle for 5-C

 

[Noneless21]

Also this could count as the as the strongest non smurf battle for 5-C

Hmm i see, i thought kaguya or isshiki is stronger but whatever, let's proceed this match first

 

[Livinmeme]

Anyway what stopping from genjutsu because hajime resistance looks baseline

 

[Noneless21]

I thought madara didn't use genjutsu that much at juubidara key? Beside, madara's resistance seems baseline too Given hajime's madness and fear manip works on sentient AI

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

This Hajime not only have the feat of make beings without emotion tremble from fear (mind you this was even before their consciousness noticed what was happening, the moment the consciousness of everyone noticed something began the maddening effect) but this Hajime also have the feat of with just a single instant of his killing intent made an AI have the illusion that the space broke, made a machine without consciousness felt a physical impact, and an AI in the other side of the world trembled from fear despite that fact that Hajime was extremely weakened and exhausted in a place that she perfectly controled and could made explode in any moment, and on top of that she herself was also protected by an army of machines of more than several hundreds of thousands. This Hajime also while playing around made deagons had heart attacks and made the entire crew of a spaceship turn crazy to the point that the only survivor (which he let purposely alive) developed another personality completely different than the one he had before. So baseline resistance isn't enough.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Regarding Hajime resistan e to illusions, he by pure willpower destroyed an entire illusory world in which he had a perfect life with the persons he love, this was even before his defences got stronger with the Soul Shell and his willpower could reach the conceptual level, the rest of Arifureta characters with illusion resistance have the same level. So I don't think this is baseline resistance.

Also, if he enter and illusion he can't escape his subordinates (intagibles demons and abstracts existences possessing things) would help him. Similarly is even possible that the smartphone could detect said anormality and automatically use time manip in him to undo the illusion.

Edit: And now that I think about it, since they also resist the killing intent of Hajime and Hajime killing intent can even make an AI have illusions, then their illusion resistance also scale to that.

 

[Livinmeme]

Yeah but naruto ilussions scale is pretty BS

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

As Expectro said in Arifureta willpower is what grants resistance, to use concept manipulation first requires a strong desire/wish, and then raising that to the conceptual level via sheer will.

Hajime and co broke out of an illusory world with sheer willpower. then Eht shows up and shows them an illusion so real it can kill them, Shea, Tio etc who all have illusion resistance, all get incapacitated, Hajime in the final arc comes back and resists that.

So yea his resistance isn't baseline.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

As Expectro said in Arifureta willpower is what grants resistance, to use concept manipulation first requires a strong desire/wish, and then raising that to the conceptual level via sheer will.

Hajime and co broke out of an illusory world with sheer willpower. then Eht shows up and shows them an illusion so real it can kill them, Shea, Tio etc who all have illusion resistance, all get incapacitated, Hajime in the final arc comes back and resists that.

So yea his resistance isn't baseline.

Willpower is ridiculous in Arifureta, not only resistances, one can get new powers via pure willpower. The fact that they can reach the conceptual level with it or resist conceptual things (like Tio resisting the effect of the treasure in the dragon village) already say a lot.

And to be fair, Shea, Tio and Shizuku were able to fight back against it to some extent, specially Shea, and against Alvaheit they were able to turn free. So there are some layers, add to that the Soul Shell level of resistances and the fact that they can face the killing intent of Hajime that can make even an AI see a illusion and their resistance is pretty high in general.

 

[Noneless21]

I see i see, I'll try to gather madara supporter because from the looks of it the odds are heavily at hajime's side go figure

should've put him against alice from isekai at peace...

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Uh well idk anything about Hajime but it looks like he dominates.

 

[Noneless21]

Uh well idk anything about Hajime but it looks like he dominates.

thank you for the inputs

well we need to know if madara can stand a chance

 

[MinatoSparkle]

thank you for the inputs

well we need to know if madara can stand a chance

Would IT gg work?

 

[Noneless21]

I actually don't think so because hajime before the afterstory has break out from the illusion similiar to IT, but buy madara time? Maybe maybe not because after story hajime is a whole different beast compared to the hajime in the main story

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I actually don't think so because hajime before the afterstory has break out from the illusion similiar to IT, but buy madara time? Maybe maybe not because after story hajime is a whole different beast compared to the hajime in the main story

Limbo gg?

 

[Noneless21]

Limbo gg?

Now that's debatable because hajime's magic eye can see soul and magic power so he may be able to see limbo but my knowledge about arifureta verse is pretty limited so gonna wait and see.

Beside, he have instinctive reaction so he may be able to sense limbo

 

[Livinmeme]

Now that's debatable because hajime's magic eye can see soul and magic power so he may be able to see limbo but my knowledge about arifureta verse is pretty limited so gonna wait and see.

Beside, he have instinctive reaction so he may be able to sense limbo

Pretty sure that madara Limbo is beyond generic NPI

 

[Noneless21]

Pretty sure that madara Limbo is beyond generic NPI

I mean hajime can interact with incorporeal being and abstract existence so as i said it is debatable

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

All Arifureta characters with unique energy can interact and sense other uniques energies, intangibles beings, ghost, elemental beings and apparitions (abstracts existences), all of them undetectable and untocheable to normal people, addirionally do to spirit magic everyone with it can interact with pure souls and in general any incorporeal "energy" (like memories or thoughts for example), similarly with spatial manip they can interact and destroy spatial things (like, from even 4 vol Hajime already had things like spatial barriers and attacks) so any high to god tier in Arifureta can do that (which is why is the most common hax shared by them), with evolution magic is even probable that they could interact (punch) with pure information since that magic is info manip but that's a bit of derailment.

Hajime also obviously is able to sense invisible things, can sense spatial distortions even before they happen, can instinctually react faster than what he can think to danger before it happen, once by pure instinct felt the danger one of his wives was facing when she was in another world/dimension, and he in general scale to a dude who's presence is literally called non-existent several times (and who btw is more undetectable than a being born from the conception of be undetectable).

So this is the level of NPI and senses he have. And his resistance to illusions was already explained above by Pegasus and me.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

All Arifureta characters with unique energy can interact and sense other uniques energies, intangibles beings, ghost, elemental beings and apparitions (abstracts existences), all of them undetectable and untocheable to normal people, addirionally do to spirit magic everyone with it can interact with pure souls and in general any incorporeal "energy" (like memories or thoughts for example), similarly with spatial manip they can interact and destroy spatial things (like, from even 4 vol Hajime already had things like spatial barriers and attacks) so any high to god tier in Arifureta can do that (which is why is the most common hax shared by them), with evolution magic is even probable that they could interact (punch) with pure information since that magic is info manip but that's a bit of derailment.

Naruto characters can also interact with unique energies intangible stuff (like Naruto tugging his soul) etc.

That's cool, but can they sense something literally in a different dimension? Especially when things like regular Sage Mode are useless against it?

Hajime also obviously is able to sense invisible things, can sense spatial distortions even before they happen, can instinctually react faster than what he can think to danger before it happen, once by pure instinct felt the danger one of his wives was facing when she was in another world/dimension, and he in general scale to a dude who's presence is literally called non-existent several times (and who btw is more undetectable than a being born from the conception of be undetectable).

SM characters can dodge characters they can't see too and by pure instinct.

 

[Noneless21]

That's cool, but can they sense something literally in a different dimension? Especially when things like regular Sage Mode are useless against it?

If limbo is indeed in the entire different dimension, hajime capable of opening portal to said dimension with his crystal key and compass combination so he's capable of hitting them regardless of his NPI degree i think

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Naruto characters can also interact with unique energies intangible stuff (like Naruto tugging his soul) etc.

That's cool, but can they sense something literally in a different dimension? Especially when things like regular Sage Mode are useless against it?

SM characters can dodge characters they can't see too and by pure instinct.

When I was saying uniques energies I was talking about different types of energies from other worlds, like for example life energy from the Dessert World, spirit energy from the Spirit World, thought element from the Fairy World, star energy from the Factory World, etc.

In the intag part they interact with illusions, ghost possessing people, demons (live forms without physical bodies do to the condition of their world), shadows, beings made from pure elements (logiqs users basically), abstracts existences made from conception, etc. And this are all the basic NPI and senses characters with magic power have, those with ancient magic (basically any high tier) can interact and sense more things.

I just said a example of Hajime literally sensing someone in other dimension bruh. Also, wouldn't spatial manip **** them? Or go directly to their dimension? Because Hajime can easily do that.

Good for SM but dodge someone they can't see by pure instinct is something that even normal humans without powers can do in Arifureta. And don't even try to compare things with Kousuke since even before vol 1 he already was undetectable by machines and not even his family could remember his existence and this was before he even got powers (magic and skills), after that his presence become even worst.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

If limbo is indeed in the entire different dimension, hajime capable of opening portal to said dimension with his crystal key and compass combination so he's capable of hitting them regardless of his NPI degree i think

But he has to know they exist

When I was saying uniques energies I was talking about different types of energies from other worlds, like for example life energy from the Dessert World, spirit energy from the Spirit World, thought element from the Fairy World, star energy from the Factory World, etc.

In the intag part they interact with illusions, ghost possessing people, demons (live forms without physical bodies do to the condition of their world), shadows, beings made from pure elements (logiqs users basically), abstracts existences made from conception, etc. And this are all the basic NPI and senses characters with magic power have, those with ancient magic (basically any high tier) can interact and sense more things.

I just said a example of Hajime literally sensing someone in other dimension bruh. Also, wouldn't spatial manip **** them? Or go directly to their dimension? Because Hajime can easily do that.

Good for SM but dodge someone they can't see by pure instinct is something that even normal humans without powers can do in Arifureta. And don't even try to compare things with Kousuke since even before vol 1 he already was undetectable by machines and not even his family could remember his existence and this was before he even got powers (magic and skills), after that his presence become even worst.

Is Hajime sensing beings from other dimensions passive?

 

[theultimate5105]

I actually don't think so because hajime before the afterstory has break out from the illusion similiar to IT, but buy madara time? Maybe maybe not because after story hajime is a whole different beast compared to the hajime in the main story

That doesn’t mean he could break out of IT
Mangekyou users can break out of Tsukuyomi but can’t do shit against IT
also even if it isn’t baseline it would just be unquantifiably above baseline which isn’t enough to resist IT which his like 10 layers or some insane level like that

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

But he has to know they exist

Is Hajime sensing beings from other dimensions passive?

Which he can perfectly do. Especially because his compass let him conceptually know the location of everything he want regardless of distance, reason of why he could travel between worlds/dimensions.

The time with Shea he was asleep and awakened just because he got a bad feeling about her.

That doesn’t mean he could break out of IT
Mangekyou users can break out of Tsukuyomi but can’t do shit against IT
also even if it isn’t baseline it would just be unquantifiably above baseline which isn’t enough to resist IT which his like 10 layers or some insane level like that

I suppose you didn't read the above explanation about his illusion resistance. To begin with, IT can affect machines? Because their resistance scale above that.

 

[Noneless21]

That doesn’t mean he could break out of IT
Mangekyou users can break out of Tsukuyomi but can’t do shit against IT
also even if it isn’t baseline it would just be unquantifiably above baseline which isn’t enough to resist IT which his like 10 layers or some insane level like that

The way that illusion similiar to IT works is by showing you the illusion of the desired world in order to keep you in there as long as possible before you said no to this illusion and break free. Hajime did this but in a much more brutal fashion where he just break the illusion just by willpower (and amps) alone

Also hajime did have his smartphone that can detect the anomaly at his body, mind and soul so he may be able to break free from IT at least

 

[theultimate5105]

Which he can perfectly do. Especially because his compass let him conceptually know the location of everything he want regardless of distance, reason of why he could travel between worlds/dimensions.

The time with Shea he was asleep and awakened just because he got a bad feeling about her.

I suppose you didn't read the above explanation about his illusion resistance. To begin with, IT can affect machines? Because their resistance scale above that.

That’s not how resistence works at all
that is just a feat of effecting inorganic physiology
if it was how it worked stuff with better NPI would be more layered in terms of hax
also none of that illusion resistence would allow him to resist IT

The way that illusion similiar to IT works is by showing you the illusion of the desired world in order to keep you in there as long as possible before you said no to this illusion and break free. Hajime did this but in a much more brutal fashion where he just break the illusion just by willpower alone

Also hajime did have his smartphone that can detect the anomaly at his body, mind and soul so he may be able to break free from IT at least

Yes but Tsukuyomi can do the same thing if it wants to and IT can mindhax people who resist that so it should work on him

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Madara resistances would be able to resist the effects of Hajime killing intent described above? And if he can could please explain why?

Madara have anything against Hajime automatic resurrection by time manip? Which btw should also revert any anormality in Hajime so even uder the assumption he could be affected by the illusion he should return to before that. Or Hajime controlling the energy of all the planet? Or his abstract existence subordinates? This is not even talking about all the hax from his long list of artifacts.

 

[theultimate5105]

Madara resistence to Madness type 2 is scaling where 1 Hashirama cell is baseline and he has Enough to take up large fractions of his body (so trillions)
His Madness type 3 resistence is much stronger then Obitos as he instantly no selled The jubbis Madness type 3 which was ripping Obitos mind apart
His fear manip resistence is stronger then Sasukes as he no sells Hashiramas and Tobiramas fear aura without any difficulty when Sasuke was kind of Effected (the same Sasuke who no sells Orochimarus fear aura which made a previous form of him which made him feel like Committing suicide when he was previously resisting Zabuzas fear aura)

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

That’s not how resistence works at all
that is just a feat of effecting inorganic physiology
if it was how it worked stuff with better NPI would be more layered in terms of hax
also none of that illusion resistence would allow him to resist IT

Would you say that soul haxing a machine is NPI despite the fact that logically machines don't have soul? Death haxing a rock would be NPI despite the fact that rocks logically don't have life? This type of things happen in fiction and are considered well above baseline resistance, make a machine see illusions is the same.

Madara resistence to Madness type 2 is scaling where 1 Hashirama cell is baseline and he has Enough to take up large fractions of his body (so trillions)
His Madness type 3 resistence is much stronger then Obitos as he instantly no selled The jubbis Madness type 3 which was ripping Obitos mind apart
His fear manip resistence is stronger then Sasukes as he no sells Hashiramas and Tobiramas fear aura without any difficulty when Sasuke was kind of Effected (the same Sasuke who no sells Orochimarus fear aura which made a previous form of him which made him feel like Committing suicide when he was previously resisting Zabuzas fear aura)

So nothing near the level of make beings literally without emotions have fear, or what, now that's also NPI? And mind you someone who resist conceptual maddness by pure willpower trembled when Hajime performed that feat.

Just the fact that his will can reach the conceptual level and grant him resistances make him more than capable of resist the illusions, the same way he in the past for example gained resistance to layered soul and illusion manip just by willpower, to begin with the character who resisted conceptual maddness is part of his group and I assure you she don't have more willpower than Hajime, though you can wait for Pegasus comment to confirm this if you want.

 

[Noneless21]

thank god expectro is here because i certainly can't debate shit

 

[theultimate5105]

Would you say that soul haxing a machine is NPI despite the fact that logically machines don't have soul? Death haxing a rock would be NPI despite the fact that rocks logically don't have life? This type of things happen in fiction and are considered well above baseline resistance, make a machine see illusions is the same.

complete and utter false equivalence. Machines have minds just computer based versions

So nothing near the level of make beings literally without emotions have fear, or what, now that's also NPI? And mind you someone who resist conceptual maddness by pure willpower trembled when Hajime performed that feat.

Yeah no that Is one layer of resistence without further context.
trembling means nothing

Just the fact that his will can reach the conceptual level and grant him resistances make him more than capable of resist the illusions, the same way he in the past for example gained resistance to layered soul and illusion manip just by willpower, to begin with the character who resisted conceptual maddness is part of his group and I assure you she don't have more willpower than Hajime, though you can wait for Pegasus comment to confirm this if you want.

No it doesn’t at all. Illusions are illusions.
You have not proved layered illusion manip at all
just saying conceptual willpower doesn’t mean it resists layered mindhax+illusions (IT btw isn’t just illusions) you need feats of the resistences

 

[Livinmeme]

Oh yeah madara genjutsus because hajime is just above baseline

Pd: can someone give me the absurd genjutsu scale??

 

[theultimate5105]

Oh yeah madara genjutsus because hajime is just above baseline

Pd: can someone give me the absurd genjutsu scale??

IT>Mangekyou Resistence>Tsukuyomi>Perfect Jinchuuraki resistence>Itachis Sharingan Genjutsu>P2 Sakuras Resistence>Kakashis Genjutsu>P1 Sakuras Resistence>Kabutos Genjutsu
Something like that it could be longer though as Kakashis Sharingan genjutsu is superior to his basic genjutsu which effected Sakura and each Tomoe Amp for the sharingan is a genjutsu amp. Also EMS Resistence should be superior to MS resistence

 

[Noneless21]

Hmm, so let's assume that hajime is indeed has only above baseline mind manip resistant, does juubidara use it the first get go? Because iirc, he uses limbo first

 

[Noneless21]

Then let's see what's being concluded shall we

1. Madara's limbo can be countered by hajime's dimension hopping with crystal key and compass combination

2. Madara's IT is indeed his magnum opus as hajime MAY NOT be able to resist it but that still debatable because we haven't heard from Celestial Pegasus' sides yet

3. If madara uses his IT, there will be 2 scenarios. One, madara will be cocky with his victory as it's virtually impossible to break out of his IT, thus giving hajime time to snap out from IT by sheer willpower and got serious by activating his amps and potentially destroy madara. Two, madara immediately go for the kill, now the smartphone capable of ressurecting hajime if even a bit of his remain still exist, if it did then madara will probably realized that the smartphone is trying to ressurect hajime and proceed to destroy it, but after that it is very ambigous who will prevail at this point

4. Hajime's arsenal of demonic army and cross velts that can decimate madara with it's immense firepower and virtually infinite supply, and since hajime know that madara is an opponent he can't let his guard down against during his fight, then he probably unleashes his armies including burst hyperion that can definitely decimate madara with a single click if madara didn't respond fast enough with his truth seeking orb shield, but even then if hajime realize that madara is using some kind of shield, then that just make sone opening to attack madara by opening portal by using crystal key and compass combination and force madara to get out from his TSB shield