Ghost of Uchiha VS Southcloud the First(lol) (1 - 2 - 2)

[Noneless21]

That's pretty much it i think, plus madara will probably not use his IT from the get go

 

[theultimate5105]

Hmm, so let's assume that hajime is indeed has only above baseline mind manip resistant, does juubidara use it the first get go? Because iirc, he uses limbo first

He used Limbo as a distraction to use IT which he only needed to do since he did not have the rinnesharingan yet
The literal second he got the rinnesharingan he used IT

 

[Noneless21]

Hmm, so we assume that this version of madara has activated his rinnesharingan then? I know it's stupid that i ask this but i just wanna clarify that madara uses IT the moment his rinnesharingan was activated is because of his goal or something

 

[theultimate5105]

Let me go over this

Thrn let's see what's being concluded shall we

1. Madara's limbo can be countered by hajime's dimension hopping with crystal key and compass combination

Madara limbo needs passive interdimensional sensing (and being able to bypass resistence to ESP (Limbo Resistence>BSM Senses>SM Senses>Itachis Resistence>Basic ESP)) to sense as well
Also Madaras limbo can use all of his hax so.

2. Madara's IT is indeed his magnum opus as hajime MAY NOT be able to resist it but that still debatable because we haven't heard from Celestial Pegasus' sides yet

3. If madara uses his IT, there will be 2 scenarios. One, madara will be cocky with his victory as it's virtually impossible to break out of his IT, thus giving hajime time to awaken from IT by sheer willpower and got serious by activating his amps and potentially destroy madara. Two, madara immediately go for the kill, now the smartphone capable of ressurecting hajime if his even a bit of his remain still exist, if it did then madara will probably realized that the smartphone is trying to ressurect hajime and proceed to destroy it, but after that it is very ambigous who will prevail at this point

Also Madara can just decide to keep IT activated fully which would mean even breaking out once without being fully immune would do nothing as he would be instant mindhaxed again.

4. Hajime's arsenal of demonic army and cross velts that can decimate madara with it's immense firepower and virtually infinite supply, and since hajime know that madara is an opponent he can't let his guard down against during his fight, then he probably unleashes his armies including burst hyperion that can definitely decimate madara with a single click if madara didn't respond fast enough with his truth seeking orb shield, but even then if hajime realize that madara isnusing some kind of shield, then that just make sone opening to attack amdara by opening portal by using crystal key and compass combination and force madara to get out from his TSB shield

He would obviously need to get them off and have them not ITd

Hmm, so we assume that this version of madara has activated his rinnesharingan then? I know it's stupid that i ask this but i just wanna clarify that madara uses IT the moment his rinnesharingan was activated is because of his goal or something

Yes obviously because it is them at their strongest.
Yeah his entire goal in the war arc was to use IT so he will instantly use it here

 

[Noneless21]

Hmm, well first let's wait for celestial pegasus' inputs first like expectro said because i'm not too knowledgable about arifureta verse

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Before Pegasus input want to ask one -two things, the illusion affect the soul of the target? And in that case from what point onwards is that the illusions in the scaling chain began to affect the soul? Because Hajime defences no only are linked to willpower but also to his soul do to spirit magic in general and the Soul Shell.

And to correct something I readed above, the smartphone is in another world/dimension, is in the Miniature Garden, Hajime and the girls in general almost never have outside the smartphone and other equipment, so to affect the smartphone it would be needed to go the Miniature Garden in which there exist an army of beings that not only hax Madara to death but he probably couldn't eve affect so to be abstracts existences (conceptual in nature obviously).

The second thing to add is that if Hajime instinct feel danger he can instantly activate an 12x amp speed. Which is also basically his first option in combat btw.

 

[theultimate5105]

Before Pegasus input want to ask one -two things, the illusion affect the soul of the target? And in that case from what point onwards is that the illusions in the scaling chain began to affect the soul? Because Hajime defences no only are linked to willpower but also to his soul do to spirit magic in general and the Soul Shell.

And to correct something I readed above, the smartphone is in another world/dimension, is in the Miniature Garden, Hajime and the girls in general almost never have outside the smartphone and other equipment, so to affect the smartphone it would be needed to go the Miniature Garden in which there exist an army of beings that not only hax Madara to death but he probably couldn't eve affect so to be abstracts existences (conceptual in nature obviously).

The second thing to add is that if Hajime instinct feel danger he can instantly activate an 12x amp speed. Which is also basically his first option in combat btw.

Genjutsu effects the soul in general
And there is no reason he would feel danger from IT

 

[Noneless21]

Actually i got some question

1. Iirc, edo tensei hokage isn't affected by IT, how come they aren't affected?

2. Iirc again, sasuke pretty much covers team 7 + obito with his susano'o from IT, so i'm curious what's the requirement to block IT?

 

[Ruijin]

Actually i got some question

1. Iirc, edo tensei hokage isn't affected by IT, how come they aren't affected?

2. Iirc again, sasuke pretty much covers team 7 + obito with his susano'o from IT, so i'm curious what's the requirement to block IT?

1. Probably 'cause they are "dead".
2. Susano is probably a little too "dark" and can bypass the IT. Infinite Tsukuyomi only impact people's who "touch" by the light if i remember well.

 

[Noneless21]

1. Probably 'cause they are "dead".
2. Susano is probably a little too "dark" and can bypass the IT. Infinite Tsukuyomi only impact people's who "touch" by the light if i remember well.

I see..., actually IT does affect the entire planet no matter where they are yet sasuke's susano'o capable of makes "darkness" to block IT, how's thah possible?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

1. Probably 'cause they are "dead".
2. Susano is probably a little too "dark" and can bypass the IT. Infinite Tsukuyomi only impact people's who "touch" by the light if i remember well.

I see..., actually IT does affect the entire planet no matter where they are yet sasuke's susano'o capable of makes "darkness" to block IT, how's thah possible?

It was stated it's because he had the Rinnegan.

 

[Noneless21]

It was stated it's because he had the Rinnegan.

Ahh i see, okay

 

[Noneless21]

Okay, i got another question

Iirc again, madara need to not only look at the moon but also jump closer to the moon in order to activate IT, does this count as the preparation for IT activation then?

 

[theultimate5105]

Okay, i got another question

Iirc again, madara need to not only look at the moon but also jump closer to the moon in order to activate IT, does this count as the preparation for IT activation then?

He did that to gain his rinnesharingan. He cast IT there because he was already up there

 

[Noneless21]

So he just need to look at the moon? Also, the IT doesn't stick for too long no?

 

[theultimate5105]

So he just need to look at the moon? Also, the IT doesn't stick for too long no?

essentially or technically he could just cast it directly on his target as the moons main point is to extend the range of the genjutsu and has no real reason to actually be required
IT activates and the light of it which instant mindhaxes doesn't stick around for that long but the Mindhax stays in effect forever

 

[Noneless21]

essentially or technically he could just cast it directly on his target as the moons main point is to extend the range of the genjutsu and has no real reason to actually be required
IT activates and the light of it which instant mindhaxes doesn't stick around for that long but the Mindhax stays in effect forever

If the mindhax did indeed stays long but the activation of IT doesn't then hajime can possibly break through the IT with sheer willpower and no longer got mindhaxed as he will know looking at his eys is bad, unless you say that you don't need to look at his eye to activate IT

 

[Livinmeme]

If the mindhax did indeed stays long but the activation of IT doesn't then hajime can possibly break through the IT with sheer willpower and no longer got mindhaxed as he will know looking at his eys is bad, unless you say that you don't need to look at his eye to activate IT

pretty sure that genjutsu doesnt requieres eye contact to work

 

[Noneless21]

pretty sure that genjutsu doesnt requieres eye contact to work

Tbh with you, i haven't seen anyway the IT is activated without madara using the moon to use the IT so enlight me please how madara can essentially use IT immediately without some medium

 

[theultimate5105]

Tbh with you, i haven't seen anyway the IT is activated without madara using the moon to use the IT so enlight me please how madara can essentially use IT immediately without some medium

By just using it the moon was only to extend the range of Infinite Tsukuyomi the power of IT comes from the rinnesharingan (also Kaguya used it in the past without the moon)

 

[Noneless21]

Hmmm, i see

 

[Orioreeem]

Even if Hajime's resistance isn't baseline it still isn't enough to resist Madara's mindhax with it's insane scaling chain.

 

[Noneless21]

Alrite then since i already ask about madara's IT, i wanna ask about hajime's standard equipment

From his abundance of equipment, there's soul shell that's basically used to block the divine edict from Eht, now he used it again at the afterstory to counter the curses from the fairy world that target the soul directly, now does that help against IT as spirit magic is essentialy mind+soul manip?

 

[Orioreeem]

I don't know how any of that will help when his resistance layer do not even come close to mindhax layers in Naruto

 

[Noneless21]

I don't know how any of that will help when his resistance layer do not even come close to mindhax layers in Naruto

Well i'm not knowledgable enough in both verse so let's wait for either expectro or celestial pegasus to show up

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

His mental resistances are directly linked to his soul resistances do to spirit magic and Soul Shell, is do to that that Soul Shell not only block soul attacks but in general a great variety of things, and this is because spirit magic is in control in general about things like thoughts, memories, souls and the rest of immaterial things that form a person.

The illusion scaling alone have various layers though, like at least 7 counting quickly, it was just that since the first things in the scaling were already so impressive and above baseline resistance that they were the only thing mentioned. If the soul scaling is also considered then at the very least like 12 layers counting quickly?

Also, just in case I asked UchihaSlayer if all genjutsu affect the soul of the target and the answer was no. I also asked some other questions that would affect this battle so maybe is better wait until his response.

 

[Noneless21]

Hmm then we can split it into 2 sections then

1. Hajime's soul shell plus his resistanceS in mind and soul manip is enough to counter IT thus disabled Madara's wincon by quite a lot tbh

2. Despite all of hajime's equipment and resistance, IT still affect him. Then it will be very debatable if hajime can wake up from IT or not

 

[Noneless21]

Bump

 

[Noneless21]

Bump

 

[XXKINGXX69]

MADARA FRA

 

[Noneless21]

MADARA FRA

Counted

 

[Popted2]

Madara FRA

 

[Noneless21]

Madara FRA

counted

 

[Ruijin]

Madara FRA

 

[Noneless21]

Madara FRA

counted

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Madara FRA

Sees Herlock Sholmes pfp
I see you are a person of culture as well.

 

[Kidkinsey]

3 tomoe sasukes genjutsu was able to clap sai who is somebody without emotions and IT scales MASSIVELY above 3 tomoe sasukes genjutsu. The moon was only needed to extend the range of IT to work on the whole planet. He is capable of doing it in a 1 on 1 setting he did it vs obito when showing him the moons eye plan.

 

[Noneless21]

3 tomoe sasukes genjutsu was able to clap sai who is somebody without emotions and IT scales MASSIVELY above 3 tomoe sasukes genjutsu. The moon was only needed to extend the range of IT to work on the whole planet. He is capable of doing it in a 1 on 1 setting he did it vs obito when showing him the moons eye plan.

Yeah i already know that, then i assume you vote for madara then?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

3 tomoe sasukes genjutsu was able to clap sai who is somebody without emotions and IT scales MASSIVELY above 3 tomoe sasukes genjutsu. The moon was only needed to extend the range of IT to work on the whole planet. He is capable of doing it in a 1 on 1 setting he did it vs obito when showing him the moons eye plan.

This is a better explanation.

Though I'm not sure why people are voying Madara. As I said Hajime mental defences are linked to his soul defences and when I asked UchihaSlayer if all genjutsus affect the soul as claimed in this thread he said no, he said that genjutsu work by manipulating the flow of chakra which is compromised of life and spiritual energy, two things that Hajime specifically don't have since they are the uniques energies of other worlds (is do to that for example that he and the rest are resistent to beings that absorb life energy and so), he have magic power which is something completely different and willpower energy which let him adapt.

Similarly even under the assumption that he get affected he can develop resistance the same way he have done various times in the story when affected by a hax. His smartphone could also directly revert the hax with time manip since the thing automatically activate when detected an anormality (I also don't remember someone saying how Madara could counter the automatic resurrection btw). And his subordinates who have free will and are in his pocket world can also help him in that case, in this scenario Madara seem to lack the NPI or senses to even know about them since they are abstract existences.

Like, there are many counter arguments against the genjutsu and Hajime only need one thought to get an 12x (actually it can be even higher but the 12x is his most basic amp) speed amp and see comparable to fastest characters in slow motion, in that moment he can simply use any of his haxs.

 

[Noneless21]

This is a better explanation.

Though I'm not sure why people are voying Madara. As I said Hajime mental defences are linked to his soul defences and when I asked UchihaSlayer if all genjutsus affect the soul as claimed in this thread he said no, he said that genjutsu work by manipulating the flow of chakra which is compromised of life and spiritual energy, two things that Hajime specifically don't have since they are the uniques energies of other worlds (is do to that for example that he and the rest are resistent to beings that absorb life energy and so), he have magic power which is something completely different and willpower energy which let him adapt.

Similarly even under the assumption that he get affected he can develop resistance the same way he have done various times in the story when affected by a hax. His smartphone could also directly revert the hax with time manip since the thing automatically activate when detected an anormality (I also don't remember someone saying how Madara could counter the automatic resurrection btw). And his subordinates who have free will and are in his pocket world can also help him in that case, in this scenario Madara seem to lack the NPI or senses to even know about them since they are abstract existences.

Like, there are many counter arguments against the genjutsu and Hajime only need one thought to get an 12x (actually it can be even higher but the 12x is his most basic amp) speed amp and see comparable to fastest characters in slow motion, in that moment he can simply use any of his haxs.

Yeah i genuinely thought hajime can take this but well the IT chain scaling is stupidly long ngl so it's still debatable if hajime can resist IT or not, we need hajime supporter now so i think we shall wait on celestial pegasus for his inputs after he's done with his business