Ghost of Uchiha VS Southcloud the First(lol) (1 - 2 - 2)

[Expectro2000xxx]

Divine Edicts/Statements are much more versatile than just soul hax, Eht used it to negate Hajime's limit break, now that i think about it Eht, and Yue by extension should have power null.

Eht also used that it to order stuff to disappear, which broke all Hajime's artifacts and would have disintegrated Hajime too, if not for his resistance, Yue should get deconstruction too.

The Apostles disintegration ability which reduces stuff into particles were also said to be something Eht gave to them/one of his own abilities, something like that, and his was even stronger.

And as seen in the Afterstories, Yue's Divine Edicts>Ehito's.

Shouldn't Alvaheit also get that do to use Divine Edicts? His existence is very forgettable but he still was the subordinate god of Eht and was above the Apostles.

Also, that would be more support to the resistances to deconstruction and power null of the cast, solidifying the power null resistance.

 

[Livinmeme]

He resist layered desintegration and even in his first key when he was powerless he already developed resistance to destruction in a cellular level and gained new powers, so he absolutely can resist or develop resistance to that, even more so with infinite resurrection and willpower.

He resist. I really think people should stop with the sort of mentality of 'fodder from bleach solo 99% fiction', is really stupid.

.... Man destroying in a quark level is like trillon times more impresive than destroying on a celular level

 

[YungManzi]

The first illusion manip that the main cast faced (and developed resistance quickly) was something similar to IT in effect, it also was a illusion manip with some layers, though it seem not as many as IT, later they also faced other more potent illusions like for example the divine edict which have more layers in potency and affected directly the soul.

In what way is it similar, and how many layers did it have?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

In what way is it similar, and how many layers did it have?

Didn't IT created a illusory world in which the people inside had a perfect live? Because that was the same thing they faced the first time, though it didn't had that many layers compared to IT, that illusion had like 3-4 layers I think.

 

[Livinmeme]

Didn't IT created a illusory world in which the people inside had a perfect live? Because that was the same thing they faced the first time, though it didn't had that many layers compared to IT, that illusion had like 3-4 layers I think.

Madara has like 11 layers on ilusions

 

[Ratherlarge]

Madara has like 11 layers on ilusions

Btw doesn't the regular Tsukuyomi specifically require Uchiha blood and the Sharingan so it can be broken out of?

 

[theultimate5105]

Btw doesn't the regular Tsukuyomi specifically require Uchiha blood and the Sharingan so it can be broken out of?

Yeah (well it needs the MS to resist it) and it can mindhax Jinchuuraki who are immune to mindhax in verse

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Madara has like 11 layers on ilusions

You didn't read all the previous comments, right? Because if you did so you should understand why IT would be useless here, instead of be so fixed in literally the first time they faced a illusion manip please read the actual arguments before talk, I already wrote a lot and don't want to explain everything again.

 

[Noneless21]

Btw doesn't the regular Tsukuyomi specifically require Uchiha blood and the Sharingan so it can be broken out of?

I think this considered false as if it is then madara will be unbeatable as long as his target has soul and it's 3D so no, someone with thick layer of mind manip resistance should be enough to counter tsukuyomi or IT

 

[Ratherlarge]

I think this considered false as if it is then madara will be unbeatable as long as his target has soul and it's 3D so no, someone with thick layer of mind manip resistance should be enough to counter tsukuyomi or IT

Well one of the requirements to break out of Tsukiyomi is by having Uchiha blood... But honestly it wouldn't matter anyways since Hajime can blitz one shot and Genjutsu isn't passive.

 

[Noneless21]

Well one of the requirements to break out of Tsukiyomi is by having Uchiha blood... But honestly it wouldn't matter anyways since Hajime can blitz one shot and Genjutsu isn't passive.

Like i said, if it is then tsukuyomi will be beyond absolute broken as only naruto verse that has uchiha blood in it, plus even if hajime did indeed got affected by IT, he will still capable of broke out of it and gain resistance as from his verse the more willpower one has, the more strength you gain so there's a chance that hajime will gain resistance to IT and return to the argument above

 

[Ratherlarge]

Like i said, if it is then tsukuyomi will be beyond absolute broken as only naruto verse that has uchiha blood in it, plus even if hajime did indeed got affected by IT, he will still capable of broke out of it and gain resistance as from his verse the more willpower one has, the more strength you gain so there's a chance that hajime will gain resistance to IT and return to the argument above

How long would it take for him to break out of IT? Tsukuyomi alters the perception of time so he would need to break out of it fast or there's not really any point.

 

[YungManzi]

Didn't IT created a illusory world in which the people inside had a perfect live? Because that was the same thing they faced the first time, though it didn't had that many layers compared to IT, that illusion had like 3-4 layers I think.

What you're describing sounds like a regular Tsukuyomi. IT>>>Tsukuyomi.

Honestly, even base Tsukuyomi is pretty nuts by illusion world standards. It creates an illusionary space-time where the caster controls space, time, fate, and all substances in the universe including things like chakra or other extra senses (So say goodbye to breaking out of it via some kind of power). It is a world where the caster is god and the victim has no control and if the caster is so inclined, they would probably not even be aware that they're in an illusion.

 

[Noneless21]

How long would it take for him to break out of IT? Tsukuyomi alters the perception of time so he would need to break out of it fast or there's not really any point.

Time to break out? Probably a while tho we can separate it into 2 possibility

1. Madara get cocky as he pretty much knew his victory is certain, but what he didn't realize is that hajime can get out it if he's given time so, hajime got out of it, hajime get pissed, activate his amps and return to the same argument above

2. Madara went to the kill immediately, and then the smartphone will ressurect hajime, hajime get pissed, and return to the same argument as the above

 

[Ratherlarge]

What you're describing sounds like a regular Tsukuyomi. IT>>>Tsukuyomi.

Honestly, even base Tsukuyomi is pretty nuts by illusion world standards. It creates an illusionary space-time where the caster controls space, time, fate, and all substances in the universe including things like chakra or other extra senses (So say goodbye to breaking out of it via some kind of power). It is a world where the caster is god and the victim has no control and if the caster is so inclined, they would probably not even be aware that they're in an illusion.

Yh it is pretty broken. Canonically it can only be broken out of by an Uchiha with MS and iirc Itachi was able to kill his girlfriend with it by making her live 70 yrs in the genjutsu which was a billionth of a second in the real world.

 

[Noneless21]

In short? Well IT is not a viable wincon for madara in this case as hajime can not only downright resist it, he can snap out of it and gain resistance too if he don't have enough layers of resistance to resist IT

 

[Ratherlarge]

Time to break out? Probably a while tho we can separate it into 2 possibility

1. Madara get cocky as he pretty much knew his victory is certain, but what he didn't realize is that hajime can get out it if he's given time so, hajime got out of it, hajime get pissed, activate his amps and return to the same argument above

2. Madara went to the kill immediately, and then the smartphone will ressurect hajime, hajime get pissed, and return to the same argument as the above

Couldn't Madara just seal him instead?

 

[Noneless21]

Couldn't Madara just seal him instead?

Hmmm, i dunno, he's still can get out it but i dunno how madara's sealing works

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Shouldn't Alvaheit also get that do to use Divine Edicts? His existence is very forgettable but he still was the subordinate god of Eht and was above the Apostles.

Also, that would be more support to the resistances to deconstruction and power null of the cast, solidifying the power null resistance.

Not really, as you said Eht>Alva, so unless he showed the ability to also do that stuff then he shouldn't scale, they might have the same ability, but clearly Eht would have greater control over it.

I am betting Alva will show up in the last volume of Zero, which will be interesting to see how the Liberators handle him, it will add to the scaling even more if they couldn't resist his Divine Edicts when they can all resist Laus's soul hax.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

What you're describing sounds like a regular Tsukuyomi. IT>>>Tsukuyomi.

Honestly, even base Tsukuyomi is pretty nuts by illusion world standards. It creates an illusionary space-time where the caster controls space, time, fate, and all substances in the universe including things like chakra or other extra senses (So say goodbye to breaking out of it via some kind of power). It is a world where the caster is god and the victim has no control and if the caster is so inclined, they would probably not even be aware that they're in an illusion.

I mean, I could be the weird one but when I think in a illusory world I already give for certain that the caster is in control of everything.

Also, again, that was quite literally the first illusion manip that the main cast faced, later one they faced others, like the killing intent of Hajime, the Divine Edicts scaling, etc. Also, as I said before his mental defences are directly linked to his soul defences and willpower.

How long would it take for him to break out of IT? Tsukuyomi alters the perception of time so he would need to break out of it fast or there's not really any point.

Depend of the scenery:

1. In case he develop resistance: The first illusion manip he faced was the illusory world I mentioned before, in that case he needed some hours, his second illusion manip was one with various more layers and that affected directly the soul, in that case he developed resistance to it in seconds (this was also his first time facing soul manip and he also gained resistance to it). This things were before his mental defences were linked to his soul ones and his will reached conceptual level, so with this things in consideration he should gain resistances quickly, especially if the illusion use Yue since their bond is in the conceptual level (which let him use a lot of conceptual things/haxs) so he would get pretty angry in this case.
2. The smartphone interfer: In this case the smartphone detect the abnormality and revert instantly the illusion with time manip.
3. His subordinates interfer: In this case the beings inside the Miniature Garden (his pocket world) act and help him with his artifacts or their own powers. In this case Madara would probably be unable to do anything since most of the beings inside the Miniature Garden are abstracts existences. This option would also be fairly quickly.

Couldn't Madara just seal him instead?

Maybe? Though in that case probably the smartphone would react or his subordinates in the Miniature Garden. Although, since demons and apparitions can resist sealing probably he also would be able to do so by himself alone.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Not really, as you said Eht>Alva, so unless he showed the ability to also do that stuff then he shouldn't scale, they might have the same ability, but clearly Eht would have greater control over it.

I am betting Alva will show up in the last volume of Zero, which will be interesting to see how the Liberators handle him, it will add to the scaling even more if they couldn't resist his Divine Edicts when they can all resist Laus's soul hax.

Could be wrong, but didn't he also showed things like disintegration and null effect of the Divine Edict? Also, would be weird that everyone related to Eht have disintegration except him.

That would be really interesting, hope he appear, that would make his existence less random.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

It's not on his profile, so unless i missed it, guessing nope, but yea he should have disintegration, but he never showed it.

Anyway lets stop derailing the thread with future potential revisions, that's stuff to discuss in the discussion thread.

 

[Noneless21]

Alrite, it seems like there's not a lot of things that madara can do so i guess hajime takes this w i guess?

i'll be waiting for the CRT's for isekai at peace

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Depend of the scenery:

1. In case he develop resistance: The first illusion manip he faced was the illusory world I mentioned before, in that case he needed some hours, his second illusion manip was one with various more layers and that affected directly the soul, in that case he developed resistance to it in seconds (this was also his first time facing soul manip and he also gained resistance to it). This things were before his mental defences were linked to his soul ones and his will reached conceptual level, so with this things in consideration he should gain resistances quickly, especially if the illusion use Yue since their bond is in the conceptual level (which let him use a lot of conceptual things/haxs) so he would get pretty angry in this case.

Speaking of this, when Tio and Kaori came up against Alva's Divine Edicts, it was said that other ppl like Suzu could do nothing, and that it wasn't as strong as Eht's, however Kaori and Tio would resist it given time.

Eht then uses his Divine Edicts, and again Tio and Kaori can't do anything instantly, but later on break out of it through sheer will.

Pretty consistent thing that due to sheer will power, given time, they can resist stuff, Hajime and Yue at that point had enough will power to will concepts into existence so their resistance happened sooner, but later on Tio resists concept hax with sheer will, so in terms of that Tio eventually got to be on their level.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Speaking of this, when Tio and Kaori came up against Alva's Divine Edicts, it was said that other ppl like Suzu could do nothing, and that it wasn't as strong as Eht's, however Kaori and Tio would resist it given time.

Eht then uses his Divine Edicts, and again Tio and Kaori can't do anything instantly, but later on break out of it through sheer will.

Pretty consistent thing that due to sheer will power, given time, they can resist stuff, Hajime and Yue at that point had enough will power to will concepts into existence so their resistance happened sooner, but later on Tio resists concept hax with sheer will, so in terms of that Tio eventually got to be on their level.

I was already taking in consideration Alva in the scaling chain with the Divine Edicts part.

And yes, the will power thing is consistent through all the series as far I know, in Zero (thousands of years in the past), in the main story and after stories, so good thing. In general all of Hajime group should be more or less comparable in the will power part (and in general), like Shea for example definitely isn't below them in this side with her guts.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well thing with Hajime and Yue is that they conquered all the labyrinths and got concept magic which requires that will power to bring concepts into existence, the others never got concept magic, but as seen with Tio you can definitely argue that while the others don't have concept magic, if they did they would have the will to bring concepts into existence, in other words they already have the will to do it, but lack the actual magic.

Shea is kinda ridiculous, so yea she definitely is on Hajime and Yue's level in terms of willpower, Hajime gets kinda traumatized fighting her, cause she keeps doing ridiculous stuff like catching his railgun bullets with just her hands, her guts nonsense where she just comes up with new abilities via guts, developing new resistances on the fly, getting stronger and stronger to the point, that she was following Udar's attacks when before she was having troubles.

But yea, all Hajime's group get stronger in battle every second, pulling new stuff out their ass etc. Never really thought what this meant vs somebody else not from the series, since they all do this, heck The Dragon was a big problem due to its absurd growth rate, kinda crazy.

 

[Noneless21]

Well thing with Hajime and Yue is that they conquered all the labyrinths and got concept magic which requires that will power to bring concepts into existence, the others never got concept magic, but as seen with Tio you can definitely argue that while the others don't have concept magic, if they did they would have the will to bring concepts into existence, in other words they already have the will to do it, but lack the actual magic.

Shea is kinda ridiculous, so yea she definitely is on Hajime and Yue's level in terms of willpower, Hajime gets kinda traumatized fighting her, cause she keeps doing ridiculous stuff like catching his railgun bullets with just her hands, her guts nonsense where she just comes up with new abilities via guts, developing new resistances on the fly, getting stronger and stronger to the point, that she was following Udar's attacks when before she was having troubles.

That shit sounds like reactive evolution if you ask me

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Never really thought what this meant vs somebody else not from the series, since they all do this, heck The Dragon was a big problem due to its absurd growth rate, kinda crazy.

Yeah, same here, it was after begin to debate that I suddenly relized that they are all really broken, especially with their will power.

Heck, I think even Eht have supernatural willpower since the bastard was mutating to survive the conceptual ee via his sheer will to live.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yea plus the concept of Godslaying the Liberators created can't kill him due to his existence continuously getting stronger

"Are you wondering why? Certainly the bullet filled with the concept of 'Godslaying' gouged my heart, yet why, I can be calm and composed like this. Ku-ku-ku-"


"…"


Ehitorujue watched Hajime with amusement, or perhaps with ridiculing while soaking in joy. Hajime didn't answer. Perhaps he didn't even have any leeway left to talk, Hajime only kept leaning on the broken stand limply with his eyes closed. Only his right eye with the eye patch covering it sliding off was slightly opened, but the magic eye stone wasn't created to obtain normal vision, so in reality Hajime was unable to see Ehitorujue's expression.


But, without even paying attention to such Hajime, Ehitorujue's tongue moved smoothly. The unsightly figure of Hajime whose plan to recover from the hopeless situation, to overturn the table with one attack had been crushed, was greatly pleasing for him.


"Indeed, if it was the me of the thousand years ago, perhaps I could possibly be destroyed by that. But, during all that time the secret technique to convert faith into strength to sublimate my soul has been continuing until now you know? Naturally, the status of my existence is also rising up. Something that is only like the concept created by a human at best means nothing against me.-Chapter 176

While also relooking at stuff Yue, who after just getting her body back, and exhausted, through sheer will stopped herself from passing out, and then uses Eht's own ability on him

“I command under the name of Yue-, ‘Don’t move’!”


{Ridiculous-}


After having her body taken over, Yue felt the flow of power inside the body many times over, she watched and listened to its result. For the genius of magic that was counted as a part of the strongest people in a war-torn era when she was merely a ten years old, there was no reason that she would be unable to do that.


Her magic power had already reached the very bottom. But, so what, she scolded her mind that was blacking out with her strength of will, she forcefully twisted her body that was pleading to her that it was the limit and squeezed out magic power, she also circulated the magic power that she was consuming for ‘Holy Severance’ and activated the magic――Divine Statement.


Surely Ehitorujue never thought that his own magic would be used back on him even in his wildest dream. Compared to the Divine Statement that Ehitorujue used, what Yue used was somewhat of a shoddy quality, however, it still splendidly restrained the target.-Chapter 177

It adds to her intelligence that she can pull this off, but it's another willpower thing where ppl are pushing themselves beyond their limits, heck volume 1 Yue can use limit break, despite not having the skill due to her love for Hajime.

 

[Ruijin]

I'll change from Incon to Hajime FRA.

 

[Noneless21]

I'll change from Incon to Hajime FRA.

Counted

 

[Ratherlarge]

Btw isn't it a bit counterproductive to equalise speed, but also allow speed buffs?

 

[Noneless21]

Speed buffs is allowed, plus if i didn't equalized speed, then madara will get even more overwhelm as hajime can go up to MFTL

 

[Z0MB1E0FD3ATHN1GHT]

Hajime FRA

 

[Noneless21]

Hajime FRA

It's already deemed as a stomp

 

[Z0MB1E0FD3ATHN1GHT]

It's already deemed as a stomp

i didnt know

 

[Noneless21]

i didnt know

Yeah it's okay