General Grievous VS Senator Armstrong - General VS Senator

[Twellas]

Grievous' armor is made of Duranium, a metal with an extremely high melting point, so much so that lightsabers have trouble cutting through it, so heat and fire shouldnt be an issue

is he completely covered in armor?

 

[SpookyShadow]

I believe he is made of that armor

 

[Twellas]

I ask because his eyes are clearly organic and you can see skin in the eye sockets of the mask

 

[SpookyShadow]

I believe Grievous was once burned in the movies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go-ErM38gsE

Sry for the music, but I couldn't find a better video lol

 

[Twellas]

Obi Wan hit his heart, but that video is still VERY relevant because it shows someone whose lifting strength is a fraction of Armstrong's opening the armor in order to expose Grevious' weak point, which means that Armstrong can do that as well.

My vote is for him due to regen, higher stamina, higher pain tolerance and Grevious having an unbelievably obvious weak point that Armstrong can easily access due to his far superior lifting strength. And before you say that Armstrong also has the same weak point, just remember that his is better concealed, harder to access and not as obvious

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

He only got burned from the Inside Out because his chest got pried open to expose his organs that are covered in a type of fluid to keep them from failing.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Armstrong would need AP high enough to tear open Grievous' armor to do so which he does not have. Lifting Strength has nothing to do with it.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also how exactly does Armstrong have a higher pain tolerance than a guy who has literally no nerves over 95% of his body?

Also also overusing nanomachines will quickly drain armstrong's stamina

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Lets weigh this out a bit:

Grievous Advantages:

• Attack Potency
• Durability
• Skill
• Experience
• Maneuverability

Armstrong:

• Lifting Strength
• Minor Regen

The previous points about pain tolerance and stamina are pretty much moot as unless Armstrong manages to get past his armor and damage his organs any damage done to grievous' body wont be felt and armstrong constantly using nanomachines will constantly and quickly drain his stamina

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Armstrong would need AP high enough to tear open Grievous' armor to do so which he does not have. Lifting Strength has nothing to do with it.

False. That is entirely a lifting strength issue.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Is 2x difference really that massive? Like, you can still do the shit to damage your opponent, it's not like 2x stronger opponent is untouchable... And Armstrong has far, far higher dura than his own AP, so it would be actually problem for Grievous to harm him. It's possible for Armstrong to withstand Ripper Mode Jack's punches, as well as catch his blade swings with two fingers. And Ripper Mode was accepted as 7X amp I think.

 

[SpookyShadow]

>armstrong constantly using nanomachines will constantly and quickly drain his stamina

Waaaait... did Kojima actually state that? I don't remember that. And still, his nanomachines were never shown to drain out of energy

 

[WeeklyBattles]

>armstrong constantly using nanomachines will constantly and quickly drain his stamina

Waaaait... did Kojima actually state that? I don't remember that. And still, his nanomachines were never shown to drain out of energy

Yes, and it was stated in the game

The only reaso his nanomachines didnt drain out of energy in the game was solely due to him absorbing all the energy out of Excelus prior to fighting Raiden

 

[Twellas]

It's never actually stated in the game, not even in the codec interactions, and again, Armstrong's key ALREADY considers him after draining EXCELSUS, so this is a non-argument, especially when he went a whole fight against Raiden without a problem.

He has better pain resistence due to having pain inhibitors.

The difference in AP isn't even close to 2x, Armstrong's 121kt feat is ridiculously casual, he even no-sold the explosion and he scales massively above (to the point of oneshotting according to Dok) Raiden, who tanked the explosion without suffering any damage after being lynched for a good 10 minutes straight, their AP is comparable.

Directly from the "Lifting Strength" section in this wiki: "[...] Tearing is also included in this category [...]", so yeah, Armstrong can definitely open Grevious' chest

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Isn't Grievous also far above the 271 kilotons

 

[Twellas]

And again, Armstrong has had no problem dealing with opponents who are both faster AND massively more skilled than he is, he can manage.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Isn't Grievous also far above the 271 kilotons

Yes

 

[WeeklyBattles]

And again, Armstrong has had no problem dealing with opponents who are both faster AND massively more skilled than he is, he can manage.

Again, Grievous is more skilled than anyone Armstrong has faced on top of wielding the equivalent of four HF blades on steroids while also packing higher power than what Armstrong has shown to be capable of contending with

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Voting Armstrong. AP is negligible, with a slight favor to Grevious. Armstrong is more skilled, Grevious has his statement, but he's constantly losing to Obi-wan, Ventress, Kit Fisto, etc. Even Ahsoka can hold him off briefly. No disrespect to Grevious, it's still impressive he can compete with these guys at all, but Armstrong has consistently bodied some of the best martial artists in his universe. Combine that with lifting strength and versatility, and Steven has an obvious edge.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Twellas Grievous' body does not have nerves, he is a sack of organs controlling a fully robotic body

Grievous scales massively above the 271 feat performed by Erza as a Padawan who has almost no training with the Force

 

[SpookyShadow]

Also consider Armstrong's dura that is apparently 7x higher than his AP.

Seeing Grievous' respect thread, there is nothing really THAT impressive to put him above Raiden and Sam. He has mainly statements, not anything superior in action.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Wright Not sure what youre talking about, he reguarly matched and defeated Obi-Wan, defeated Ventress, fought Kit and his padawan simultanoeusly for an extended period of time ddespite being at both an environmental and stylistic disadvantage, and regularly stomped Ahsoka

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Seeing Grievous' respect thread, there is nothing really THAT impressive to put him above Raiden and Sam. He has mainly statements, not anything superior in action.

You do know thos arent statements right? Those are actual feats he's displayed in the series

 

[SpookyShadow]

Nice, but I don't see anything that is as good as you claim it to be.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Nice, but I don't see anything that is as good as you claim it to be.

Being trained in multiple Lightsaber forms alone puts him above anything Raiden has done, let alone contending with some of the best lightsaber duelists in the verse multiple times and defeating dozens of Jedi, often multiple simultaneously

 

[The_Wright_Way]

You're kidding right? What exactly makes lightsaber styles so impressive?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

So again:

Grievous Advantages:

• Attack Potency
• Durability
• Skill
• Experience
• Maneuverability
• Versatility

Armstrong:

• Lifting Strength
• Minor Regen

The previous points about pain tolerance and stamina are pretty much moot as unless Armstrong manages to get past his armor and damage his organs any damage done to grievous' body wont be felt and armstrong constantly using nanomachines will constantly and quickly drain his stamina

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Grevious is not more skilled than Raiden dude.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

You're kidding right? What exactly makes lightsaber styles so impressive?

a single one takes several years to learn

 

[WeeklyBattles]

You're kidding right? What exactly makes lightsaber styles so impressive?

I will type up a long response to this but in the meantime

 

[WeeklyBattles]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIj7gIDFDe4

 

[SpookyShadow]

It seems like you only base Jack off the shit he has done in Metal Gear Rising, seriously.

Jack was trained in CQC by one of the greatest CQC users in entire Metal Gear universe and a clone of a guy who literally invented CQC.

He was trained by, and defeated the greatest swordsman in entire Metal Gear universe in a fight while still being a human. Solidus wielded two HF Blades. Jack also mastered immense amounts of swordstyles.

He not only, as a young kid was one of the best soldiers in Civil War, but also gained reputation in the world as one of the actually best soldiers. As a child soldier.

And that's only small chunk.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

a single one takes several years to learn

That is nothing in the face of Raiden's skill feats

 

[The_Wright_Way]

@Wright Not sure what youre talking about, he reguarly matched and defeated Obi-Wan, defeated Ventress, fought Kit and his padawan simultanoeusly for an extended period of time ddespite being at both an environmental and stylistic disadvantage, and regularly stomped Ahsoka

I'm not a fool to the fact that he stomps early Clone Wars Tano any day of the week, I was referring to later in the series, where she can actually hold her own against him.

Grevious had to resort to his blaster to kill Kit's padawan, and Kit fought him off later in the episode.

Obi-Wan fights him regularly, and usually wins and I distinctly remember Ventress beating him once.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Wright this isnt the long response but since you want a response so quickly, lightsabers are inherently unwieldy and gyroscopically unbalanced weapons, making them virtually impossible to wield by anyone who isnt a Force user without being just as lethal to themselves as they are to whoever's they're fighting. Not only is grievous not a force user, but he is cut off from the force in its entirety, yet he is skilled enough to wield four simultaneously. Lightsaber combat styles normally take decades to master, with each style focusing on a completely different method of combat playing to a person's strengths in combat, which is why it's rare for even jedi masters to be capable of using more than two. Grievous knows a bare minimum of four.

 

[Twellas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIj7gIDFDe4

This type of stuff is something Raiden could do back in his MGS4 days, REALLY not that impressive.

One lightsabre style takes several years to learn? Isn't that also true for, like, every single martial arts? Even real ones?

Also it's very nice how you ignored the fact that i pointed out how Nanomachines draining Armstrong is a non-factor due to 1 it NEVER being mentioned in the game 2 Armstrong already absorbing EXCELSUS in this key 3 Armstrong being able to fight for hours without any problem.

Sam is a master of 3 martial arts, skilled to the point where he took out 10 armed soldiers with only his sword without a single enhancement and while still very young (it happened in the early 2000's, Sam is 26 at the time of MGR which takes place in 2018), is significantly faster than Armstrong and wields the only weapon that can actually harm him, he still whopped his ass casually. Raiden himself beat Solidus while still human, an opponent who was stronger than him and wielding 2 swords as well as 2 additional arms, and this happened in his FIRST actual mission, he only got better with time.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

I'm aware, lightsabers don't have weight and so you have to be more careful while swinging them. At least, that's how it was explained to me.

I'm more than comfortable waiting for a long answer. Take all the time you need.

 

[Twellas]

Oh, and in MGS2 Raiden reached that level of proficiency with the HF blade after the first 10 minutes of using it, since we can clearly see that he doesn't know how to use it at first when Snake gives it to him

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Lightsabers do have weight, its just entirely in the handle, making it a genuinely horribly unbalanced and unwieldy weapon

 

[Twellas]

It seems like you only base Jack off the shit he has done in Metal Gear Rising, seriously.
Jack was trained in CQC by one of the greatest CQC users in entire Metal Gear universe and a clone of a guy who literally invented CQC.

He was trained by, and defeated the greatest swordsman in entire Metal Gear universe in a fight while still being a human. Solidus wielded two HF Blades. Jack also mastered immense amounts of swordstyles.

He not only, as a young kid was one of the best soldiers in Civil War, but also gained reputation in the world as one of the actually best soldiers. As a child soldier.

And that's only small chunk.

Actually, where is it ever stated that Solidus is the best swordsman alive? I surely didn't see that anywhere in MGS2, is it from other games\outside statements?