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General DC Comics Discussion Thread

I agree with this. Under composite I think the Presence comfortably reaches 1A-High 1A depending on your scalings, but Vertigo on its own isn't that impressive.
Composite Presence is the strongest character in DC comics.

Even the concept of Brahman, buddha and other religion supreme gods are a small aspect of The Divine presence.

The Presence in vertigo only rules over a single creation. Some people existed before the presence.

So it's better to ignore and treat vertigo characters as seperate without scaling them to the DC Multiverse similar to unwritten storylines
 
Heaven is not 2A or 1C. It simply exists outside the creation in vertigo.

The Presence itself would only be 2A without scaling from composite Cosmology.
bro look at the revision blog (vertigo)
Presence created infinite timelines (2A)
Heaven is beyond that making it Low 1-C (5D)
The mansion of silence is beyond heaven and houses thousands of creations making it Low 1-C (6D)
The void is beyond everything else
 
bro look at the revision blog (vertigo)
Presence created infinite timelines (2A)
Heaven is beyond that making it Low 1-C (5D)
The mansion of silence is beyond heaven and houses thousands of creations making it Low 1-C (6D)
The void is beyond everything else
Just existing beyond is not a qualitative superiority.
 
im too lazy to add detail mb
but you can check the revision blog which has the same stuff as what i said but with more detail
Checked it and there's not much. The reasoning for Heaven being Low 1-C is that Heaven "transcends" creation but "transcending" isn't a qualitative superiority. That's explicitly stated in the FAQ, and the other descriptions do not indicate the existence of any QS.

The Mansions of Silence's justification is that it is far beyond Heaven, which would only grant it Heaven's tier at best but Heaven itself doesn't have a qualitative superiority as seen above.

Only the Void has an actual qualitative superiority. But even then, it's due to viewing creation as infinitesimal and not due to some R>f or anything.
 
Checked it and there's not much. The reasoning for Heaven being Low 1-C is that Heaven "transcends" creation but "transcending" isn't a qualitative superiority. That's explicitly stated in the FAQ, and the other descriptions do not indicate the existence of any QS.
heaven transcends creation, looks down upon it and views it as sprinkles or smth which is QS
The Mansions of Silence's justification is that it is far beyond Heaven, which would only grant it Heaven's tier at best but Heaven itself doesn't have a qualitative superiority as seen above.
it does as explained above
Only the Void has an actual qualitative superiority. But even then, it's due to viewing creation as infinitesimal and not due to some R>f or anything.
yeah
 
Viewing it as sprinkles would be Low 1-C but do you have a scan?
found it
main-qimg-a43ff756d757468632760ad9f4636321
 
Scan said "seemed". So it's not literal. It's just how Archangels view it. And why is viewing something as sprinkles Low-1C? Sprinkles aren't even infinitely smaller.
....non sequitr? the word 'seemed' has nothing to do with it not being literal. the archangels are in the silver city, thats why 2-A creation looks blurred and spangled because silver city is so much bigger
 
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Scan just says creation seemed spangled. Two issues with this-

1: It just means creation appeared to be covered with spangles, not that creation itself was spangles
im not saying creation itself is spangled. im saying heaven views creation as spangled because heaven is superior to it.
2: "Seemed" means it's not necessarily true- https://www.dictionary.com/browse/seem
appeal to meaning? the word seemed is being used because heaven quite literally see's it as spangled from their point of view because thats what it looks like from their point of view...

Seem: give the impression of being something or having a particular quality.
Similar:
appear
appear to be
give the impression of being
look

In this context, theyre using the word seemed because it LOOKS like creation is spangled and blurred
 
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im not saying creation itself is spangled. im saying heaven views creation as spangled because heaven is superior to it.
Not qualitatively so. Humans see things as spangled, they aren't qualitatively superior.
appeal to meaning? the word seemed is being used because heaven quite literally see's it as spangled from their point of view because thats what it looks like from their point of view...
I think you mean Appeal to Definition, but with the dictionary, I have established an equal alternate interpretation, so the burden would be on you to prove the word "seemed" is used here as you say.
 
Scan just says creation seemed spangled. Two issues with this-

1: It just means creation appeared to be covered with spangles, not that creation itself was spangles

2: "Seemed" means it's not necessarily true- https://www.dictionary.com/browse/seem
How did you even come to the conclusion that "seemed blurred and spangled" means its covered with spangles?

All it means is that the creation looked blurred and spangled. Are we really having an argument regarding semantics?
 
Not qualitatively so. Humans see things as spangled, they aren't qualitatively superior.
This is an awful example you're comparing with and i don't see how it relates to heaven viewing a 2-A creation as spangled at all
I think you mean Appeal to Definition, but with the dictionary, I have established an equal alternate interpretation, so the burden would be on you to prove the word "seemed" is used here as you say.
explained above
 
That's the point, the importance of "seemed", it's not literally spangled, it just appeared to be.
Its not a cat, it just appears to be one. Do you even know what "spangled" means? Its those sparkling lights below. Make an actual argument with proof rather than saying its not literal.
 
We are talking about appearance not their characteristics.
I have plenty of analogies for that too.

As Gold looked down from his window, he saw something, something that seemed to be a tiger, but no, it was actually his Uncle in the costume of one.

When Gold went to the professor's lab, the professor showed him his latest invention. A being that appeared to be a human walked out, but it was actually an android.
 
As Gold looked down from his window, he saw something, something that seemed to be a tiger, but no, it was actually his Uncle in the costume of one.

When Gold went to the professor's lab, the professor showed him his latest invention. A being that appeared to be a human walked out, but it was actually an android.
I don't see how any of these correlate with viewing a 2-A structure as spangled. Im talking about literal universes and structures while you're bringing up the most irrelevant analogies such as tigers and humans...

This is ridiculous
 
When they used the word 'seemed' they are talking about its appearance. from heaven's point of view, the IMMENSITY of creation seemed spangled. creation is immense but heaven sees it as tiny little sparkles....this is qualitative superiority.
 
What are the current conclusions and what do we need to do here?
 
When they used the word 'seemed' they are talking about its appearance. from heaven's point of view, the IMMENSITY of creation seemed spangled. creation is immense but heaven sees it as tiny little sparkles....this is qualitative superiority.
Seemed, so it's not literal. It's just how creation looks like from there. And why is that a qualitative superiority?
 
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When they used the word 'seemed' they are talking about its appearance. from heaven's point of view, the IMMENSITY of creation seemed spangled. creation is immense but heaven sees it as tiny little sparkles....this is qualitative superiority.
Again, Heaven was never stated to view creation as tiny little sparkles. It said creation appeared to be spangled, which just means creation appeared to be sparkling from Heaven. The word "appear" is objectively vague. If it was meant to be literal, "was spangled and blurred" would have been stated instead of "seemed spangled and blurred". Qualitative transcendences require explicit evidences here to count, not vague ones.
I don't see how any of these correlate with viewing a 2-A structure as spangled. Im talking about literal universes and structures while you're bringing up the most irrelevant analogies such as tigers and humans...
Immortal brought up cats, and I presented an analogy. An analogy isn't something that is an exact equal, it's a separate case that has similarities with the original case. My analogies were presented to prove the word "seemed" is vague, and I established that. It's your job now to prove "seemed" in the context was being used literally.

The word "spangled" means "covered with spangles", which doesn't make sense literally. You are changing the wording to "Heaven saw creation as sparkles", which was not what was stated. It didn't even say creation appeared as spangles but instead spangled. There's a key difference.

Creation simply appeared to be glittering to the Archangel.
What are the current conclusions and what do we need to do here?
We don't have to do anything right now since this is not the Tiering thread, but the blog for the split said Heaven was Low 1-C with the reasoning that it was stated to transcend creation, when our FAQ explicitly says statements transcendence is not grounds for any kind of superiority, and much less a qualitative one. So I just disagreed with the blog.
 
Can somebody summarise your issue of contention please? If you are arguing about our ongoing DC Comics cosmology revision, it is inappropriate to do so here.
 
Godspeed is alive in Flash one minute wars special, no explanation on how his alive after Eobard thawne snapped his neck.
 
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