Garou VS Kaidou

[TauanVictor]

"The Hero Hunter" Garou VS "The Strongest Creature" Kaidou​

• Starting Distance: 30m
• Both in-character
• Post-Darkshine Garou in 6-A key

LOCATION:

Garou: 21 (@Kin201, @Phoenks, @Quangotjokes, @Kachon123, @Megaraptor149, @FluffyCreatureZ, @The_Legendary_Vin, @Pain_to12, @Kenshin_, @JustANormalPerson01, @Zencha9, @Livinmeme, @Magmag, @Spinoirr, @Naeblis495, @Therefir, @Lightning_XXI, @EnderLord8, @Rockymountainjammer, @Unknownnah, @FinePoint)
Kaidou: 13 (@XDragnoir, @KingTempest, @Greatsage13th, @LordGinSama, @SnookB, @ZoroNotZolo, @StrawHatArslan, @Ryuga21, @WrongIdea21, @Shadyboi0, @Jibz, @Eminiteable, @Romeu08)
Inconclusive: 1 (@SuperStar)

 

[Kin201]

Garou should take this. Has Comparable AP, more skilled, OP reactive evolution, has internal shockwaves attacks that bypass Kaido's tough scale, very similar to Ryuo.

Basically, if Kaido doesn't finish Garou quickly, he won't win.

 

[SnookB]

Garou scales from sage centipede's 2.46 pt
Kaido upscales from 1.19 pet (Oden ~ WB ~ 1.19 pt ~ Base Kaido < Hybrid/Zoan< Haoshoku infusion< Shuron Hakke)

more skilled

Kaido's Kenbunshoku and future sight kinda equalize this (that and technique stealing in Shuron Hakke)

has internal shockwaves attacks that bypass Kaido's tough scale

His internals (weirdly enough) scale basically to his regular durability somehow. That and Zoan healing recovers wounds rather fast unless they're just THAT severe.

OP reactive evolution

So does Kaido. Luffy commented on his Haki getting stronger mid-battle (basically haki bloom) to where he started quickly overwhelming Luffy who was going blow for blow prior.

There's a good case for Garou winning here based off sheer skill and H2H versatility/adaptiveness, but Kaido's got a LOT of counter-abilities, AOE and range for it to be easily decided.
I'll wait on more arguments before voting for either.

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Why is speed equalized? Both characters have comparable speed: Kaido upscales from 4.95c based on Old Whitebeard's feat in Marineford, while Garou upscales from 4.33c based on his fight with Platinum Sperm.

 

[Bernkastelll]

So does Kaido. Luffy commented on his Haki getting stronger mid-battle (basically haki bloom) to where he started quickly overwhelming Luffy who was going blow for blow prior.

indeed, but Garou reactive evolution/power level allowed him to jump from 6-A to 5-C in a single fight

btw, how can Garou deal with Future Sight? Haki has dura neg as well so Kaido have the cance to kill Garou before garou's reactive power level turns gives him a higher tier

 

[Oloserian]

I don't know too much about Kaido so I'll wait for more people to chime in, but from what I'm seeing, Garou's reactive evolution seems substantially stronger. We're talking about someone who went from City to Continent level AP

 

[SnookB]

Garou reactive evolution/power level allowed him to jump from 6-A to 5-C in a single fight

He's restricted to 6-A. I know tier-hopping via RE is a thing, but idk if this battle itself would allow it.

Kaido has a lot of means of combating Garou's insane skills:
Future seeing (he reacted to attacks that were previously blitzing him.) And his future sight is true FS, not prediction- so he'd just SEE what Garou will do several seconds before just like Katakuri foreseeing G4.
Technique mimicry (After seeing Snakeman for a few seconds he stole its ability to home in and bounce off air)
Not letting Garou get closer and acting like a whole raid boss, spamming Kaifus, demolition gales and Bolo Breaths across the field
Shuron Hakke makes Kaido unpredictable to even Kenbunshoku (despite how layered it is) because of how.. Unpredictable he is in it
He can also switch forms in a heartbeat and his organs change places (according to Law his anatomy is different in dragon form)

Kaido might KO Garou before he gets to develop further tbfh- Garou's at a heavy disadvantage here due to almost everything needing close range (in canon he relies on blitzing, which here is tough due to equalization)

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Seeing this match made me think of an idea of basically this same match but with a few extra components. Also, should Kaido be given alcohol in this match? It sounds stupid but it's only when he consumes alcohol that he has access to his Shuron Hakke state which increases his Haki and makes the attacks more unpredictable.

Anyway, I think that this match would turn out very interesting due to Kaido's many different attacks, his advanced Haki abilities, and his ability to see the future. The only problem that might arise is that Kaido likes fighting strong opponents and could let the battle extend long enough for Garou to evolve and defeat him.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

He's restricted to 6-A. I know tier-hopping via RE is a thing, but idk if this battle itself would allow it.

Garou will not evolve to 5-C in a battle against a 6-A, but no doubt he will evolve to a point that Kaido cannot keep up. That's the whole concept of the character. I also wouldn't doubt him being able to copy Haki

 

[SnookB]

Garou will not evolve to 5-C in a battle against a 6-A, but no doubt he will evolve to a point that Kaido cannot keep up. That's the whole concept of the character. I also wouldn't doubt him being able to copy Haki

Why would he? This isn't cosmic Garou. This is before he could Copy energies.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Haki is a technique, no? Garou once learned supernatural techniques while sleeping using past memories

 

[SnookB]

Haki is a technique, no? Garou once learned supernatural techniques while sleeping using past memories

No. Haki is spiritual energy that exists within One Piece characters. You can't "copy" haki since it's willpower enduced and far more abstract than ki/chakra in that aspect

 

[SnookB]

Haki is a technique, no? Garou once learned supernatural techniques while sleeping using past memories

I think you're confusing it with Rokushiki?? Because THAT is a martial art based off haki

 

[Jibz]

Ion think Garou can just copy haki? Seems kinda trippy to think about it tbh.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I think you're confusing it with Rokushiki?? Because THAT is a martial art based off haki

Nah, because I was pretty sure that Haki was something that "anyone could learn".

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Nah, because I was pretty sure that Haki was something that "anyone could learn".

Anyone in the One Piece universe, sure, but it shouldn't apply here. If it was Cosmic Mode Garou, maybe he could replicate Haki techniques, but not Monster Garou.

 

[SnookB]

Nah, because I was pretty sure that Haki was something that "anyone could learn".

Anyone in One Piece because they're born with it.
Cosmic Garou might not even learn it because it's SPIRITUAL and not a universally natural energy thing like radiation and stuff

 

[LordGinSama]

How good is Garou's heat resistance? Kaido shrugs off Garou's form of durability negation like it's nothing given all the amount of damage he took during the Roof battle. He took similar forms of durability negation and continued to fight and knockout fools, some of said attacks were even aimed at the brain and heart.

Kaido can also negate Garou's regeneration to my knowledge so his regeneration shouldn't be an issue.


Garou takes the skill advantage easily but Kaido really isn't a slouch in that department either given his handling of Luffy and Zoro, the former being known for his ability to copy Techniques and predict attacks.


Kaido should take the edge in endurance, and while Garou has some stupid Reactive Evolution Kaido has an answer in the form or various attacks which can seriously boost his AP, and can take it a few steps further via Buso and Hao Infusion. Combining the two is another way for Kaido to keep up with his Evolution.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

How good is Garou's heat resistance?

Withstands temperatures capable of vaporizing underground stations

 

[LordGinSama]

Withstands temperatures capable of vaporizing underground stations

Link?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

is in the profile

 

[XDragnoir]

No. Haki is spiritual energy that exists within One Piece characters. You can't "copy" haki since it's willpower enduced and far more abstract than ki/chakra in that aspect

Verse equalization means Garou has Haki too, it's unlikely he would be able to copy it as he has 0 experience manipulating his own spiritual energy afaik but it's still a thing he could do, i think more or less the same applies to Kaido's technique mimicry, maybe to an even more extreme extent as it was used a single time against something that isn't even akin to what Garou can do.

Garou has a bit more than a 2x AP advantage so at least one of Kaido's amps would be to close the gap and the others would be to surpass Garou (instead of having 3-4 amps Kaido will only have 2-3 in practice).

All that said, i think Kaido takes this the moment he starts to take things more seriously, Future Sight, (i think it is) superior heat manipulation compared to Garou's resistances, better endurance and stamina, etc should be enough to give Kaido the win IMO.

 

[LordGinSama]

Verse equalization means Garou has Haki too,

This definitely is not true. Verse Equalization doesn't equalize every energy, and they damn sure don't grant abilities like Haki to other verses. Verse Equalization is the practice of equalizing groups of energy which are similar to one another. Key word "similar."

 

[LordGinSama]

is in the profile

Nothing is vaporized in them.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Seems vaporization to me, but well

 

[XDragnoir]

This definitely is not true. Verse Equalization doesn't equalize every energy, and they damn sure don't grant abilities like Haki to other verses. Verse Equalization is the practice of equalizing groups of energy which are similar to one another. Key word "similar."

Which is why i said "Garou has Haki" and not "Garou can use Haki".

Haki being an energy that every being with willpower and/or a soul have in OP means anyone that fulfills those two things will also have Haki even if they have not awakened or can't properly control it while under verse equalization.

As for not granting abilities... Sure? I never claimed it would grant Garou anything specific?

 

[KingTempest]

Garou scales from sage centipede's 2.46 pt
Kaido upscales from 1.19 pet (Oden ~ WB ~ 1.19 pt ~ Base Kaido < Hybrid/Zoan< Haoshoku infusion< Shuron Hakke)

1 PT < Issho < Akainu ~ Hybrid Marco ~ 1 Homie Big Mom ~ Base Kaidou < Hybrid < Buso Hybrid < Buso Hao Hybrid < Drunk Buso Hao Hybrid < His super strong ass magma dragon (which is about to be < 4 PT)

has internal shockwaves attacks that bypass Kaido's tough scale, very similar to Ryuo.

Internal shockwaves are nothing to Kaidou
Ryuo blows up inside his body, and he took this and shook it off.

So does Kaido. Luffy commented on his Haki getting stronger mid-battle (basically haki bloom) to where he started quickly overwhelming Luffy who was going blow for blow prior.

He has regular Haki growth, his drunk Hao empowerment, both of them growing together

Also, should Kaido be given alcohol in this match? It sounds stupid but it's only when he consumes alcohol that he has access to his Shuron Hakke state which increases his Haki and makes the attacks more unpredictable.

It's honestly his regular equipment since he just pulls it out of his pocket

Withstands temperatures capable of vaporizing underground stations

Kaidou's Super Hot Dragon > Kaidou's Boro Breath ~ Luffy's Heat Resistance > Akainu's Passive Heat > Steel Vaporization

Verse equalization means Garou has Haki too, it's unlikely he would be able to copy it as he has 0 experience manipulating his own spiritual energy afaik but it's still a thing he could do, i think more or less the same applies to Kaido's technique mimicry, maybe to an even more extreme extent as it was used a single time against something that isn't even akin to what Garou can do.

Verse equalization does not mean Garou has Haki. That is most definitely not true.

Verse equalization doesn't give people abilities.

Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen.

Furthermore, attacks that require a special type of energy to be effective, like anti-magic requiring magic, will be assumed to work against the energies of different Verses, as long as they are somehow similar and the mechanics are somehow compatible with the known mechanics behind the energies from different Verses. For example, mind control resistance by being a capable mind user would also work against other Verses, but mind control resistance through a strong will would not necessarily work against mind control from other Verses. It is also important to note that characters won't lose or gain any abilities or resistances which they do or do not inherently possess. However, if an ability has a weakness, condition, caveat, or limitation, consistently shown throughout its use (such as not working on characters under a specific condition, like energy gap) or stated by a valid and uncontradicted statement, then it should be applicable after the equalization.

Equalization works highly on a case-by-case basis, so many relevant cases should be discussed in the versus thread itself.

He wouldn't have Haki. Verse equalization is useless here.

 

[XDragnoir]

Verse equalization does not mean Garou has Haki. That is most definitely not true.

Verse equalization doesn't give people abilities

Mrk, i am saying he has the energy, not that he will start to use Kenbushoku, Ryuo and the like or anything at all.

0 reading comprehension

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Akainu's Passive Heat > Steel Vaporization

I thought this had been removed

 

[KingTempest]

Mrk, i am saying he has the energy, not that he will start to use Kenbushoku, Ryuo and the like or anything at all.

0 reading comprehension

He wouldn't have the energy at all

I thought this had been removed

Who told u that?

 

[XDragnoir]

He wouldn't have the energy at all

He would, it's literally something all living beings have.

 

[KingTempest]

He would, it's literally something all living beings have.

Let's use Black Clover and Naruto as an example.

Verse Equalization is saying that Anti-Magic will nullify Chakra.
Verse Equalization is not saying that everyone fighting has Anti-Magic and Chakra.

 

[Phoenks]

Why is speed equalized? Both characters have comparable speed: Kaido upscales from 4.95c based on Old Whitebeard's feat in Marineford, while Garou upscales from 4.33c based on his fight with Platinum Sperm.

Garou blitzes people comparable to him in speed.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Who told u that?

I don't know, it was probably just my bad memory

Spoiler

However, I really disagree that the sword was vaporized. This is what a vaporized sword looks like, not this. There is absolutely no sign of steam or sound, the sword simply turns black and breaks. It is much simpler to say that the sword was carbonized

 

[Phoenks]

This the Garou that basically can't die because he'll just evolve until he becomes High 6-A...

 

[Kachon123]

That and Zoan healing recovers wounds rather fast unless they're just THAT severe

It is that severe.

 

[XDragnoir]

Verse Equalization is saying that Anti-Magic will nullify Chakra.
Verse Equalization is not saying that everyone fighting has Anti-Magic and Chakra.

Neither are the basic energy of their verses so that's a false equivalence, Chakra is the combination of Mental and Physical energy (which all living beings have afaik) while BC's all living beings energy is Ki and not Mana (and much less anti magic).

 

[KingTempest]

Neither are the basic energy of their verses so that's a false equivalence, Chakra is the combination of Mental and Physical energy (which all living beings have afaik) while BC's all living beings energy is Ki and not Mana (and much less anti magic).

So you understand the point but disagree on the examples. I disagree with your response but at least you understand the basic point.

He does not get Haki. That's headassery to say he flat out gains an energy system

 

[XDragnoir]

So you understand the point but disagree on the examples. I disagree with your response but at least you understand the basic point.

He does not get Haki. That's headassery to say he flat out gains an energy system

KT, doesn't Ray say Haki is common to all human beings?

Isn't Garou a human being?

That's literally all there is to it, I AM NOT saying Garou will use Buso, Kenbu or Hao or any subpower of the 3, i am saying he has the Haki inside him like every human in OP, cause that's what Verse Equalization does.

 

[KingTempest]

KT, doesn't Ray say Haki is common to all human beings?

Isn't Garou a human being?

That's literally all there is to it, I AM NOT saying Garou will use Buso, Kenbu or Hao or any subpower of the 3, i am saying he has the Haki inside him like every human in OP, cause that's what Verse Equalization does.

I'll explain this to you offsite since this deadass doesn't change who wins or loses