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Garlic.Jr upgrade

Actually since the heavenly realm is the width of the Universe in Toeiverse, this would at least be a 3-C/3-A feat if Garlic Junior's Hyperspace was going to suck up all of it (Meaning this dimension needs the size to... do that)
 
Well, disregarding the fact that this would be an outlier. Why exactly would creating such a thing be Low 2-C or 3-A? Hyperspace in fiction typically just means an alternate sub-region of space, with its own properties. It usually doesn't mean some 4-Dimensional object, since it involves space, not a creation of its own Space-Time.

From what I recall, the Dead Zone acted a lot like a Black Hole, where it was sucking everything into it, so all it seems to mean is that he would have made it powerful enough to suck up The Living World?, so it seems less of an AP feat, and more of a hax related to AP to some sort.
 
Well he did do two times and it being consistent with his goal to suck up Heaveni inthe Garlic Jr saga, and Hyperspace is, in theory, a set of extra dimensions beyond the three that we experience daily. These extra dimensions are able to connect distant points in real space. And there's still it being able to suck heaven. Well its description does follow a black hole as it states not even light can move in it, tho he created it which can be AP related.
 
Giygas3 said:
Pretty sure the Dead Zone isn't a Black Hole, it just acts like a Black Hole when it relates to consuming things.
Click to expand...
Indeed, and Garlic Jr. created it with his own power so it should still scale?
 
"Two times...Garlic Jr Saga".

Being consistent has nothing to do with if it's an outlier or not, it has to do with characters relative to them, and the villains that comes later that's vastly stronger than them. They don't show any feats even remotely comparable throughout the show or movies, until debatelt at the end of the show. Low 2-C for EXTREMELY early on Dragon Ball for Toei is utterly ridiculous.

"Hyperspace is, in theory,...real space"

In theory, it doesn't exist. It's a purely science fiction term that doesn't mean anything in Physics or Cosmology. And how fiction mostly treats it, you're completely wrong. It involves alternate regions of space, that has its own properties, NOT Space-Time of its own-self.

"Does follow a Black Hole as it states not even light can move in it"

This is the only thing remotely comparable to a Black hole, besides how it sucks things in, and how it looks, that's when the comparison to a Black Hole starts to completely fail. It's related to Hax, mixed with AP to some degree - It's not really an AP feat.
 
Stop it with the hax thing. You have yet to prove it's hax whatsoever- what we do know with the least assumptions is that Garlic Jr. created a space that is able to produce enough suction to swallow up the Heavenly World. Garlic Jr, being that he created it with his own power, would and should scale to it.

Whether or not it's an outlier is besides the point since you keep trying to assert that it's Hax + AP instead of what it actually is- Pure AP.
 
"You have yet to prove it's hax whatsoever."

The fact that the Dead Zone is a separate space which has its own gravitational pull, that Garlic can't even escape from himself until the Makyo Star gave him energy to do so - Is it not clear that the feat is hax related; and not some purely based AP attack?

Now concerning with the rest what you said, there's no way to directly correlate you inputting energy into something, to where it's gravitational pull is outputting so much to consume a higher and higher area. This is why I say it's based on AP to some sort, but there's no real way to actually correlate the input of energy into well, the result for the gravitational pull of the Dead Zone.

From the first and second point, that's why the feat itself is Hax, with AP to some unknown degree.
 
"Being consistent..... utterly ridiculous"

Well it can be that Goku and Piccolo keeping up with Garlic Jr is the outliar,like Brainiac 13, his entire thing is destroying Timelines, but he got beat by Superman, does that mean Brainiac 13 is Solar system level, that just means that his fight against Superman and him keeping up is the outliar.

"In theory.....own-self"

Actually there this thing called the [[ ]]Hyperspace theory

"This...AP feat"

What Akreious said.
 
Considering this would put him above 99% of people throughout the whole series, which the writers clearly didn't have in mind whatsoever, and even from a logic stand-point - The best option is to say the feat itself is an outlier, and not, "Everyone else besides him is an outlier." Considering it doesn't make any sense in consideration of what we see throughout the whole series up until the end.

"Hyperspace theory."

No one in academia uses this term when they're taking about String Theory. Maybe you can have one or two people using it, but Hyperspace as called, is really never used. Typically, this term is used solely in Science fiction; and in it, it's not anything close to String Theory. In fiction; how we should go about this discussion, it's relating to alternate regions of space which has its own properties, not some higher dimensional place.

I disagree with him saying it's AP, but I'll wait to see how he responds to it.
 
Well it can death of the author, just like how Toriyama didn't think Frieza destroying planet Vegeta would be Dwart star level or Jiren and everyone after him being beyond Infinite zamasu, tho, I think a Possibility 3-A is good.

And I agree with Hyperspace not being Higher Dimensional in almost all of Fiction, but I think creating the Dead Zone is a 3-A feat, as it would have fit heaven in it, so Garlic Jr made a dimension that has a size superior to a Universe.

So I think Garlic Jr being High 5-A/High 4-C, possibly 3-A is good or note of him creating the Dead Zone being an outliar.
 
"Well it can be death of the author"

Sure, it could. I brought that up as a side-reasoning for the main reason why it would be an outlier. All the other points for the characters can't apply to this, as it doesn't have the same problems that I've already listed.

"Fit heaven in it."

I mean, doesn't it only need to fit all the Celestial bodies in it? And all it says is that it will consume it, so it seems like the Dead Zone's gravitational pull is growing, to where it would eventually consume them, and not the Dead zone itself is growing in size. (Maybe I'm wrong on that, It's been forever since I've watched the movie, and the arc, so is their a statement of it growing larger and larger over time?)

If so, the size itself would be heavily smaller on the inside.
 
Well Heaven is just a universe size planet, It really doesn't have celestial bodies except the Grand Kai planet, which is 1/10th Heaven, and it was going to consume the planet itself not just the people in it, and there's no evidence it is growing in size, so Garlic Jr creating the Dead Zone is indeed 3-A, tho it's probably an outliar.
 
As I said before, I wasn't arguing whether or not it's an outlier (It probably is without wonky scaling), but trying to say that it has some form of Hax about it just because is not sufficient reasoning for it not to scale to AP.
 
I'm going to go ahead and say that if Garlic Jr. could just *create* something like this, why and how does he not simply destroy it?


You're talking about consistency, and I'd like to note that at no point do we ever see Garlic Jr. ever actually create the Dead Zone, nor is the method for doing so ever elaborated or expanded upon. It could have taken centuries.


If not for these following facts: the Dead Zone itself is the key to Garlic Jr.'s defeat every ******* time; he survives his fights with Goku and Piccolo only because he's immortal, taking a huge hole to the chest that would have killed him during one of his appearances; and he's never shown actually creating the Dead Zone, merely opening black hole-like portals, which, giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming they are true black holes--depending on the size of the black hole in question, the tier could be anywhere from 7-C--4-A; in what way does anyone assume this scales to his AP/Durability?

At best, I see Portal Creation, Pocket Reality Manipulation, and possibly Black Hole Creation as possible additions to his profile.

Again, unless you'd like to see Toeiverse Raditz upgraded to Low 2-C...and before you claim "outlier", Adem, I'd like to point out that in both appearances, Garlic Jr. is injured by Goku, and Piccolo, with Piccolo harming him in both instances. Garlic Jr. has two showings. If that is enough to establish "consistency", then why is not applicable to at least Piccolo, who injured Garlic Jr. in both appearances, and whom Goku would then scale to regardless, as would everyone in the Toeiverse from Raditz to Freeza by proxy?
 
I completely agree with Promestein and Shadow.

Firstly, this shouldn't be compared with other fictional depictions of hyperspace. In virtually all media, hyperspace is an alternate dimension or transit through realspace where the laws of relativity/time dilation do not exist or are warped enough to allow FTL travel. Garlic's realm shares none of these qualities (acting more like a black hole than any hyperspace), and FTL travel is already possible without it in Dragon Ball. Here's an entry from the The Greenwood Encyclopedia of Science Fiction and Fantasy

Hyperspace Greenwood
Secondly, @Akreious there's far more evidence to suggest the opposite as Stoned Orc and others have explained. Instead of saying it's "not sufficient reasoning", you should try to find evidence youself.
 
@Akreious In my reply to your point, I didn't even bring up if it was an outlier or not, and I told you why It's a hax mixed with AP to some unknown degree feat, so I don't know why you didn't reply to it.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
So simply being called a "hyperspace" is evidence of Low 2-C? Utterly laughable.
Click to expand...
Like ByAsura said, the Dead Zone's hyperspace has nothing in common with other fictional depictions of Hyperspace, so it's possible it is mathematical Hyperspace?

Which is stated to be "A space having dimension nÔƒ®3"
 
@A Stoned Off creation feats are equal to busting feats in this site, so him creating a Universe size Dimension is 3-A.

And the Dead Zone is just a dimension he creates with the portal/Black hole thing, that is stated in my link.

Well Again, I'll use the Brainiac Example, Brainiac 13 destroys Timelines, that's all he does,but he got beat by Superman, does that mean he's solar System level now? No, he's still would be low 2-C.

And you're probably right, it's an outliar.
 
The Dead Zone or Makyo Star seems to have similar properties to that of a Black Hole. If anything I think he should at least get Black Hole creation since Garlic Jr is able to conjure up the DZ as an ability. It could simply be a Large Planet to Star level feat; Possibly Higher if it threatened the Universe.
 
AwkguyDB said:
The Dead Zone or Makyo Star seems to have similar properties to that of a Black Hole. If anything I think he should at least get Black Hole creation since Garlic Jr is able to conjure up the DZ as an ability. It could simply be a Large Planet to Star level feat; Possibly Higher if it threatened the Universe.
Click to expand...
He was going to use it to consume heaven which is a planet the size of a Universe, and it seems more like a portal to the Dead Zone, and it can fit a universe size planet inside of it and Garlic Jr created it.
 
This is so massively an outlier that you may as well start arguing Tier 0 Goku while you're at it.

There is no point in continuing this discussion other than to waste time.
 
Literally read anything about mathematical hyperspace. Or, it could just be called hyperspace and be a completely new type.
 
The absolute most I could see is Universe level with The Dead Zone, but there's no physical stats involved at all, even including Jr.'s Mako Star boost. Even this is questionable given how inconsistent the afterlife is in the anime.
 
If this is taken to face value then it actually could be a Universal Feat

ÒüéÒü«õ©û
The World Beyond
A spiritual world where souls that have lost their physical bodies exist. It is the so-called world after death, as well as a world where the Kami who govern the entire universe reside. Also called the "Heavenly Realm." It is divided into the four smaller worlds of the Enma Realm, the Kaiou Realm, the Kaioushin Realm, and Hell, and each realm is governed by King Enma, the Kaiou, and the Kaioushin. The manager for Hell is King Enma.
[Par.] All lifeforms are sent to the Enma Realm as souls when they die. There, their conduct while alive is judged by King Enma, and their afterlife destination, either going to Heaven, or going to Hell, is decided. Postmortem souls have the same form they had during life, but the dead have rings on top of their heads like angels. Because of this, you can distinguish residents of the World Beyond. (Daizenshuu 4, Page 72)
 
@Adem It's called universe-sized flower field once in the anime (ep. 249), which all the guides follow. Basically, it's one statement repeated multiple times, not really confirmed.
 
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