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Low 2-C Deadzone upgrade

TiltedFN said:
Bruh what? So you are just going to disregard it completely? "
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I didn’t disregard anything. In fact I very clearly addressed why if you read what I wrote above. It’s pretty clear what Garlic Jr meant

TiltedFN said:
Well maybe in your point of view, we still have people, including me who are arguing this point, so stop acting like its the end all be all.
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Never said it’s the end all be all. That’s putting words in my mouth

Like I said, I’m done talking this and I made it clear I disagree, so how about we stop with the back and forth?
 
Nothing is really stoppin yall from asking a translator, it just ain't really necessary for this thread's rejection
Think we're also focusing on the soul hax now more than anything
 
Lonkitt said:
Honestly? No. It’s not that deep. We know what context Garlic Jr meant, it’s just not obvious to everyone, apparently
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This is a little condescending. A lot of us here don't agree in your interpretation of the statement, I don't think it's a case of 'not being obvious to everyone'. I think getting a translator's help here to provide further context would be beneficial to both sides.
 
hard disagree with low 2-C as garlic Jr. doesn't actually scale to the dead zone and is taken down by it through both of his movies

with soul manip I am a bit on the fence, since it does effect the soul but not to a massive extent as it simply freezes the soul not allowing it to pass on but it doesn't do much else to so that would be like limited soul manip I suppose?
 
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There’s no reason to stall a heavily rejected thread with this. And that’s only to maybe address one counterargument, which doesn’t even begin to cover the rest.

Not to mention: This is still an outlier, and no sufficient explanation has been given for why it wouldn’t be.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
i couldve sworn he created it.
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yeah, here the thing though, he did that in the first movie too (low 2-C DB, low 2-C raditz bb) and each time he got sucked into it he couldn't do jack diddily shit about that. I mean the first time he got captured in it 2-3 years prior to his return in DBZ, he couldn't get out, he couldn't unmake the zone and the time he got out was due to outside help of the makio star which after being destroyed sent him back into the dead zone and he couldn't close the portal, he couldn't escape the pull, he couldn't unmake the zone and got trapped in it for the second time.

The most we could say is that garlic junior has low 2-C creation not AP or dura cuse the thing that is actually low 2-C ****** him up not just once but twice and the second time he was even stronger than he was when he got sucked in the first time around.
 
TiltedFN said:
The raw kanji is right here: この無限地獄で己の愚かさを後悔しろ= "Regret your foolishness in this infinite hell". You can also hear garlic jr say "mugen" in the video as well, so there shouldn't be any problems here. Now for the interpretation, garlic jr says to regret their decisions in the infinite hell known as the dead zone. Now I know some people will try to say, "well this could easily mean endless or infinite suffering". Well this isn't really the case here because the dead zone freezes your body and soul, so one could argue that you wouldn't really suffer at all to begin with, just slowly stay frozen until you eventually die out. And the kanji is, "無限" which literally means infinity (which in this context refers to the dead zones size). Garlic jr also said this in a way to where he is most likely talking about the dead zone itself being infinite in size. We know garlic jr also refers to the dead zone as being a hell, so "infinite hell" most likely is referring to the dead zone itself, and is not some poetic or hyperbolic way to say endless suffering, because eventually, those sucked in, like Goku and co will die in the dead zone, as even stated by garlic jr. So I think it can undoubtedly be referred to as being an infinite space in the most literal sense.
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Okay so,

Interpretation of “Infinite Hell”​

  1. Temporal Interpretation: One interpretation of “無限地獄” could be a hell that lasts forever. This is a temporal interpretation, where “無限” (infinite) refers to the unending duration of time one spends in this "hell".
  2. Spatial Interpretation: Another interpretation could be a hell that is infinite in size. Here, “無限” (infinite) refers to the boundless spatial expanse of hell.
It's impossible to gauge whether or not mugen means the duration of hell or the size of hell, it's pointless to call a translator because the phrase itself doesn't solve the issue. There nothing else that suggests that the Dead Zone is infinite in size, so that's the bigger assumption atm, whereas an "Eternal Hell" is much more aligned with your explanation of the victim freezing out like entropy.

I disagree with this upgrade.
 
I'm not gonna lie those "this is an outlier" args seem weak as hell.
You claim the feat is an outlier but any time the characters are stated to be infinite power it's hyperbole??? How the f*** are they supposed to prove it then? The anime gotta show you the entire infinite universe?
Disagree with the upgrade for Topaz's reasoning.
 
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Sir_sun_man said:
yeah, here the thing though, he did that in the first movie too (low 2-C DB, low 2-C raditz bb) and each time he got sucked into it he couldn't do jack diddily shit about that. I mean the first time he got captured in it 2-3 years prior to his return in DBZ, he couldn't get out, he couldn't unmake the zone and the time he got out was due to outside help of the makio star which after being destroyed sent him back into the dead zone and he couldn't close the portal, he couldn't escape the pull, he couldn't unmake the zone and got trapped in it for the second time.

The most we could say is that garlic junior has low 2-C creation not AP or dura cuse the thing that is actually low 2-C ****** him up not just once but twice and the second time he was even stronger than he was when he got sucked in the first time around.
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First time around he got pushed into it, second time around the planet buffing him got destroyed so he logically got weak enough to get pulled into it
 
DivineAura44 said:
I'm not gonna lie those "this is an outlier" args seem weak as hell.
You claim the feat is an outlier but any time the characters are stated to be infinite power it's hyperbole??? How the f*** are they supposed to prove it then? The anime gotta show you the entire infinite universe?
Disagree with the downgrade for Topaz's reasoning.
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OMG Someone put it in words LOL
 
pineappleman said:
First time around he got pushed into it, second time around the planet buffing him got destroyed so he logically got weak enough to get pulled into it
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yeah and each time after he started getting sucked into this dimension he supposedly "made" he could do squat. How are we going to claim that he is just as powerful as the effects and size of a dimesion he himself is powerless to escape or undo? the best you could claim is low 2-C through creation.
 
Sir_sun_man said:
yeah and each time after he started getting sucked into this dimension he supposedly "made" he could do squat. How are we going to claim that he is just as powerful as the effects and size of a dimesion he himself is powerless to escape or undo? the best you could claim is low 2-C through creation.
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He created it off his own energy, that much is already accepted on this wiki. And villains getting beat by their own techniques backfiring on them isn't really something new in fiction.
 
DivineAura44 said:
I'm not gonna lie those "this is an outlier" args seem weak as hell.
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Why?

Like, even If the feat makes some sort of sense, scaling the characters to this singular feat, when they best showing don't even come closer to that, is pretty weird. They don't exactly consistent feats close to this one. Like, they jumping from Moon Level to Universal Level, that's a Gap way too big.
 
Fezzih_007 said:
Why?

Like, even If the feat makes some sort of sense, scaling the characters to this singular feat, when they best showing don't even come closer to that, is pretty weird. They don't exactly consistent feats close to this one. Like, they jumping from Moon Level to Universal Level, that's a Gap way too big.
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1. Garlic Jr. is 4-A iirc.
2. They are only scaled like that as a result of calling literally every statement so far an outlier, of they're gonna be scaled low.
With the consistent amount of statements every arc saying the characters have infinite power, this would not be an outlier if the feat's only proven interpretation got it to Low 2-C. Problem is there are alternate interpretations.
 
pineappleman said:
He created it off his own energy, that much is already accepted on this wiki. And villains getting beat by their own techniques backfiring on them isn't really something new in fiction.
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cool it can grant him low 2-C with creation and not effect his stats.

and the thing with the dead zone is, if we are going to scale Jr to it then dead zone and onwards everyone is low 2-C (raditz and everyone above him or close to him) without feats to back it up other than Garlics dead zone that he himself never shown to scale to in terms of physicals.

Also the difference between other villains attacks backfiring is that it is usually their own power cuting or burning them up (frieza and the distracto discs) here we have a dead zone apearently made by garlics own Ki, that he can't do anything about for a whole 2-3 year period, he is still alive, able to move the whole 9 yards, but he can't do anything at all against a zone that is supposedly made of his own power. So either garlic doesn't scale to the zone what so ever, or this is a massive plot inconsistency that creates a massive **** up in the scaling chance that can't be solved without just ignoring it.
 
Sir_sun_man said:
cool it can grant him low 2-C with creation and not effect his stats.

and the thing with the dead zone is, if we are going to scale Jr to it then dead zone and onwards everyone is low 2-C (raditz and everyone above him or close to him) without feats to back it up other than Garlics dead zone that he himself never shown to scale to in terms of physicals.
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But wouldn't that require Low 2-C amounts of ki and in turn make him Low 2-C?
 
If Dead Zone is Low 2-C to begin with, which doesn't seem likely given the current consensus
 
DivineAura44 said:
But wouldn't that require Low 2-C amounts of ki and in turn make him Low 2-C?
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not necesserily, we don't know the actual process of creating this dimension or its compesition, for all we know it could be a process of creating a miniture big bang that requires like 5-A levels of power to jump start a big bang like event or create a singularity like a black hole to create a sub space through said singularity.

There is a reason why there are different tier levels for characters with UES, not all feats are outright one to one to their character stats as ya know if it literally shows that its outright way more powerful than the character that made it or kills said character in one strike, traps them and fully overpowers them without the character being able to do anything.
 
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