Galactus should be high 1B

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

While I wouldn't mind looking at his evidence I can't say I'm too conducive to the idea, purely from a logical standpoint. Even if Universal Abstracts from 616 were waaaaaay stronger than all of their counterparts, they would still be infinitesimally small parts of the actual Multiversal Abstracts. Scaling the Universal Abstracts to the same general tier as their Multiversal counterparts seems like a Pandora's box for a scaling nightmare.

 

[Antvasima]

I have updated Ego's page.

 

[Antvasima]

@POTM

Exactly!

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, here are the pages that need to be updated:

Logos

The Living Tribunal

Phoenix Force

Here are the ones that might need to be updated as well:

Galactus (Marvel Comics) (The Ultimate Nullifier part, as it rebuilt Multi-Eternity)

Abraxas (Marvel Comics)

Celestials (The Weapon part)

Uatu The Watcher (A scan might need to be removed, due to exaggerated language)

 

[Huesito88]

Well, the problem is that I simply do not have the free time to go through every single one of your many scans and analyse them one by one, and my point about that it makes absolutely no sense and should be considered as PIS still stand.

No matter how many scans are found?

 

[Antvasima]

It genuinely doesn't make any sense, and would create a scaling nightmare. Sorry.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

@Prince I'm just going to point out a few things:

• In fiction that avatars of a High 1-B entity have been High 1-B before... Even on this site.... So it isn't impossible, just not heard of and deemed as ridiculous (which I'm not blaming either of you for... Because that is rather logical reasoning...Which is why I know it's going to be far more difficult to prove... Which honestly makes me even more excited to debate on it... That sounds strange for someone on a vsdebating site to say.... But I am very excited at this difficulty... Maybe that's why I haven't given up just yet?) .
• The offical difference between High 1-B and 1-B is so much greater than any hypothetical levels of infinity it is ludicrous, so having their Avatar on that range isn't that impossible (unheard of ad ridiculous, but not impossible) . Also they definitely are above their regular avatar levels purely by feats and cosmological significance in comparison to the other Avatars... So it's a logical conclusion to say that the 616 Avatars are superior to their other counterparts.

SO... I may be taking this the wrong way Prince... but I'm assuming that I can go ahead and present the evidence on a varying thread based on your statement of "you don't mind" , or is that not the implication you just made ?

 

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

To be honest, I'm really not sure what your goal is. Are you arguing for High 1-B, 1-B, something lower? All cosmic entities or a select few?

Maybe it would be easier to collate everything into a blog post rather than a thread? It wouldn't be shut down on you that way. I also definitely recommend using imgur links instead of posting huge pictures right on the blog itself, it would be much easier to read that way.

 

[The_Impress]

Isn't this literally the same problem street tiers are facing? Where the character has an extremely varying tier based on writers that it weakens the scaling in general (Low 7-C Vulture, 9-A Daredevil etc., etc.,)

My two cents, we shouldn't likely upgrade them seeing that it will lead to more and more inflated tiers in the long run via scaling, making it impossible to change anything at the risk of breaking the hierachy. It's preferrable to have a vague yet encompassing tier rather than full on High 1-B everything

 

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

Also @Ant

I can update the first three pages if you unlock them. I'm unsure what should be done for the latter ones though.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

@Prince High 1-B was my original goal... I'll post the scans, but everything as of then is up to you all....and Consider it done. It'll take a minute though... But I assure you it should be done soon.

@Zark Similar problem indeed... Except this has at leasr 3 more ways to solve it without trying to cut down the feats.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Zark2099.

@POTM

I will unlock them for you. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[Antvasima]

The Celestials supposedly have something called "The Weapon", which is as powerful as the Ultimate Nullifier, according to their profile page.

Does anybody know something about this, or should we remove the mention?

 

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

@Ant

Do you think a note like this on the bottom of Logos' page would be okay?

"Do not attempt to scale non-abstract beings from the Ultimates storyline to the same level as Logos or other Multiversal Abstracts. That storyline treated combat on the highest level of reality as metaphor, allowing non-abstracts to battle multiversal embodiments."

 

[Antvasima]

That seems fine, yes.

 

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

Okay, those three are done.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the help.

I would still appreciate community input regarding what we should do about the Celestials page. I did not find any mention of "The Weapon" in their Marvel Comics wiki entry.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Alright then... The blog is being made as we speak. Is there anything specific you guys are looking for me to address in it besides the aforementioned stuff in my previous blogs... or ?

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Okay, those three are done.

Jean Grey's profile also new fixing. Especially the White Phoenix of the Crown.

 

[Antvasima]

Jean Grey is just one of many universal avatars. Why should she be updated?

 

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

I have no idea what "The Weapon" is either. It might be worth noting that they did have some sort of device that blew up the First Firmament, resulting in the creation of the First Eternity.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, that is true, but this is something that is compared with the Ultimate Nullifier, and I don't remember any reference for it.

 

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

I guess it could either be deleted altogether, or changed into "High 1-B with Celestial War weapons" or something along those lines.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Jean Grey is just one of many universal avatars. Why should she be updated?

Her Phoenix/Dark Phoenix key has Universal feats like Mathhew has posted in another thread and White Phoenix of the Crown is not an avatar but is Jean and the Phoenix merged as one.

 

[Antvasima]

@POTM

Well, we need to know more about it if we are going to keep it.

@╬Ü╬ƒ╬£╬Ö╬×

Well, we need a list of the feats that we can scale from. Also, he WPOTC appearance displayed many other Phoenix Force avatars alongside her.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Well, we need a list of the feats that we can scale from. Also, he WPOTC appearance displayed many other Phoenix Force avatars alongside her.

And? Avatars from other universes powered from pieces of the force... Jean is not just an avatar in that form... That's the whole point of WPOTC. To transcend. Also don't forget that at that she was in the white hot room, the heart of the Phoenix which is in the M'Kraan Crystal.

 

[Antvasima]

Can you show some evidence please? From what I remember, the other avatars treated her as just one of many.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Can you show some evidence please? From what I remember, the other avatars treated her as just one of many.

The Phoenix Consciouness talking to her treated her as the White Phoenix of the Crown. Not jutst a white Phoenix but the. Which means she's special. Also, remember this during Endsong. There Jean became White Phoenix Of The Crown again and ascended to the White Hot Room. Also White Phoenix Hope broke Amped Scarlet Witch's spell and Jean >> Hope as the Phoenix.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not see any proof of her being far more powerful than all other Phoenix avatars in the scan that you just linked to.

Do you have other scans available?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Didn't they say anhthing about being more powerful than when she was Phoenix... Shouldnt that statement be perceived as an outlier if the above is true ?

 

[Eganergo]

If ultimate nulifier become High 1B, does this mean infinity gauntlet user become High 1B as well? I saw this under The Infinity Gauntlet page: At least Multiverse level+ (An incomplete Infinity Gauntlet is incredibly superior to the Ultimate Nullifier. Adam Warlock with the Infinity Gantlet overpowered the entire Abstract Host with immense ease, and was considered to hold an ultimate and unlimited power by the likes of Eternity), able to ignore durability in many ways.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

@Eg The IG was described to be reaching to the very highest ends of infinity with its 'mind , reality ,and soul gems... So it would be consistent. However, we should note that those were the 616 Abstracts, not the Multiversal ones in that storyline... And note that 616 Eternity was able to temporarily match it.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

I do not see any proof of her being far more powerful than all other Phoenix avatars in the scan that you just linked to.

Do you have other scans available?

Yes a sca that you seen not long ago... The previous scan I posted say that Jean and Phoenix are truly one in that period.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that the Nullifier varies in power between Low 2-C and High 1-B depending on the user and story. It is usually portrayed at the former level.

As such, I do not think that the IG should remotely scale from High 1-B, especially as the gems have been gradually downgraded over the years. They started out as what remained of a previous embodiment of "everything", then only worked within a single universe, and then they were mass-produced by the Celestials, who mined them at an unknown location.

Thanos and Nebula with the Infinity Gauntlet did legitimately beat up a lot of universal abstract entities though, so we could probably scale from that.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes a sca that you seen not long ago... The previous scan I posted say that Jean and Phoenix are truly one in that period.

Okay. That seems fine as proof that she is more powerful than the other hosts, but I am not sure what statistics that you want for her. We have to scale from her own feats and those of other avatars.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Okay. That seems fine as proof that she is more powerful than the other hosts, but I am not sure what statistics that you want for her. We have to scale from her own feats and those of other avatars.

Yeah I agree. But since WPOTC is One with the Force shouldn't Jean only at that form get a possibly High 1B? Since she is completely merged with Phoenix. In Endsong in the scan I posted before the Phoenix says that they are one. After that they merge completely and become WPOTC. WPOTC Jean also scales from White Phoenix Hope since Hope broke Amped Scarlet Witch's spell of No More Mutants.

 

[Antvasima]

There is no proof of a massively multiversal scale for her. Her best feat is Low 2-C by rewriting a timeline.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

There is no proof of a massively multiversal scale for her. Her best feat is Low 2-C by rewriting a timeline.

But the statements that she and the Force are one? That means that she can channel as power as she wants. Also there other statements that put Dark Phoenix/Phoenix above low 2C like Matthew has mentioned in other threads. Also by scaling she is above White Phoenix Hope like I said. That only makes her way above low 2C.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that it may be possible to scale her from the other universal abstract entities, but not the multiversal ones. That would be far too unreliable and inconsistent.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

I think that it may be possible to scale her from the other universal abstract entities, but not the multiversal ones. That would be far too unreliable and inconsistent.

Why? Dark Phoenix Jean scales already from the other universal abstract entities. We have discussed this before. White Phoenix of the Crown is way way above that level and like I said in other posted she scales above White Phoenix Hope who dispelled Scarlet's Witch spell over the mutants.

I would like Matthews opinion on this once again.