Frieza's supernova calc....

[Kavpeny]

I apologize for being so late to this thread.

@everyone: As you all know, I have been against accepting calcs utilizing cinematic time (the phrase "cinematic time" referring to any time-frames calculated on the basis of a cinematic/visual production/animation).

The primary reason for this was to prevent the overloading of BS calcs which would inevitably set in. However, after consulting with Antvasima, I accept this particular calc (yes, the high end).

Subsequently, I also with the upgrade. Please note that this however, scales to Frieza and Future Trunks only. Most of the other characters are too strong to be affected.

Additionally, DontTalk is working on an article along with help from ChaosTheory123 to create an air-tight article regarding acceptance of future calcs which make use of cinematic time for time-frames.

@Cross: Thanks for holding down the fort, buddy.

@TLT1: Two wrongs do not make a right, so I would very much prefer you do not utilize such arguments...

@SSJRyu1: ^ same.

@Unclechairma: Your frustration is duly noted. And I agree, the current stance is indeed a band-aid solution, but it is necessary in the mean-time nonetheless, so I would appreciate it if you could hold your horses, until we have DontTalk's article. Is that acceptable?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

So small star level freeza accepted huh.

 

[Antvasima]

So, does anybody want to upgrade Frieza, Future Trunks, and Namek Saga Goku? Also, what other characters scale to this? I think that quite a lot of Dragon Ball pages need to be rescaled.

To start with, we seem to have a problem with Frieza. His first form has been calculated as the upper bounds of small star level, but the first key says "first three forms".

Hence, his second to fourth form will likely be large star level. We need to both change the key descriptions, and determine where to place his other forms?

Or should we use the lower boundary of the calculation? In that case we may not need to change the profiles.

 

[Alexcar3000]

If that was 1st Form Frieza...then it scales to Piccolo (Namek saga, he was x2 stronger than 1st Form Frieza), Gohan (Namek saga, but only his rage boosts, not his base), Vegeta (Namek saga, he was equal to 1st form Frieza after a zenkai iirc), Goku (Namek saga) and Future Trunks...

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. And we may have to upgrade their Android Saga statistics as well.

 

[TheArcosian]

it would scale to tuellece, Lord Slug Cooler, FT and maybe King cold? dunno about him

 

[Antvasima]

Well, with Star level being such a narrow category, it would place Frieza's final form, and quite a lot of characters at Large Star level.

 

[Antvasima]

However, the question is still whether we should use the upper or lower bound for the calculation? I will ask the calculation group.

 

[SomebodyData]

Well, with Star level being such a narrow category, it would place Frieza's final form, and quite a lot of characters at Large Star level.

@Ant Noice

@Acro to answer your question, yes it would scale to King Cold

 

[TheArcosian]

Well, with Star level being such a narrow category, it would place Frieza's final form, and quite a lot of characters at Large Star level.

@Ant Noice
@Acro to answer your question, yes it would scale to King Cold

ok ^^ nice

 

[Mandrakk_The_Dark_Monitor]

I apologize for being so late to this thread.
@everyone: As you all know, I have been against accepting calcs utilizing cinematic time (the phrase "cinematic time" referring to any time-frames calculated on the basis of a cinematic/visual production/animation).

The primary reason for this was to prevent the overloading of BS calcs which would inevitably set in. However, after consulting with Antvasima, I accept this particular calc (yes, the high end).

Subsequently, I also with the upgrade. Please note that this however, scales to Frieza and Future Trunks only. Most of the other characters are too strong to be affected.

Additionally, DontTalk is working on an article along with help from ChaosTheory123 to create an air-tight article regarding acceptance of future calcs which make use of cinematic time for time-frames.

@Cross: Thanks for holding down the fort, buddy.

@TLT1: Two wrongs do not make a right, so I would very much prefer you do not utilize such arguments...

@SSJRyu1: ^ same.

@Unclechairma: Your frustration is duly noted. And I agree, the current stance is indeed a band-aid solution, but it is necessary in the mean-time nonetheless, so I would appreciate it if you could hold your horses, until we have DontTalk's article. Is that acceptable?

Thank you... this was MUCH needed

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the calculation group still needs to decide whether we should use the high end or low end of the calculation, and if they decide the high end in a reasonable manner, we need to decide where to properly scale various incarnations of DBZ characters.

 

[DontTalk]

High end seems to be the correct one, given that the low end doesn't actually calculate the speed of the mass ejected as far as I understand to calculation.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the evaluation.

 

[Kavpeny]

Yes, it would scale to King Cold (although whether is is stronger than Frieza is debatable??)


@Antvasima:

By power-scaling:

SS Goku, Vegeta, Future Trunks, Androids 17, 18, 19, 20 and Cell (First form) as Small Star level/Small Star level+

Android 16, Cell (2nd form), Ascended Vegeta, Trunks as Star/Star level+

Ascended Goku, Gohan, Perfect Cell, Cell Jr. as Large Star/Large Star level+

SS2 Gohan, Super Perfect Cell as Solar System level

Not sure how it compares to actual statistics, though.


@Mandrakk: You're welcome.


Also, agreed with DontTalk. Like I said before, I accept the high end, as it also has a more efficient method.

 

[Dark645]

What about Metal Cooler.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the problem is that as far as I understand, Frieza destroyed the planet Vegeta in his first form, which had a power level of around 500000, compared to his final form at 120000000, so given how close he was to the upper border of small star level, and that star level is an extremely narrow category, he would almost have to be placed at large star level in final form, and likely the preceding ones as well.

 

[Antvasima]

Hence, we could be looking at quite a mess to figure out how to rescale several characters.

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe we should change his Key descriptions to "1st form" and "4th form" only, since the rest are hard to determine?

 

[SomebodyData]

Well, the problem is that as far as I understand, Frieza destroyed the planet Vegeta in his first form, which had a power level of around 500000, compared to his final form at 120000000, so given how close he was to the upper border of small star level, and that star level is an extremely narrow category, he would almost have to be placed at large star level in final form, and likely the preceding ones as well.

Aren't power levels bs? Or atleast not linear?

 

[Sheoth]

Well, the problem is that as far as I understand, Frieza destroyed the planet Vegeta in his first form, which had a power level of around 500000, compared to his final form at 120000000, so given how close he was to the upper border of small star level, and that star level is an extremely narrow category, he would almost have to be placed at large star level in final form, and likely the preceding ones as well.

Power level's are only ever useful for determining "who is stronger than who," but never to what exact degree it is so. Even if the exact degree is unknown, we can still rely on the calc in this case to give an accurate placement for Frieza and others' stats.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well, the problem is that as far as I understand, Frieza destroyed the planet Vegeta in his first form, which had a power level of around 500000, compared to his final form at 120000000, so given how close he was to the upper border of small star level, and that star level is an extremely narrow category, he would almost have to be placed at large star level in final form, and likely the preceding ones as well.

Power level's are only ever useful for determining "who is stronger than who," but never to what exact degree it is so. Even if the exact degree is unknown, we can still rely on the calc in this case to give an accurate placement for Frieza and others' stats.

Agreed power levels are only useful to determining who is stronger than who it isnt linear.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the thing is that if the difference between 1st form Frieza and large star level is just around 8 times or so in terms of joules, I think that it is safe to say that a power level difference of 240 more than makes up for it.

 

[SomebodyData]

Sort of, but if the difference between 1st form Frieza and large star level is just around 8 times or so, I think that it is safe to say that a power level difference of 240 more than makes up for it.

Ehhh yeah makes sense, espically considering base goku is higher than second form, not even counting the kk multipliers

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well, the thing is that if the difference between 1st form Frieza and large star level is just around 8 times or so in terms of joules, I think that it is safe to say that a power level difference of 240 more than makes up for it.

You are right final form freeza would definetly be large star level he is clearly more than 8 times stronger in his final form when base goku was stronger than his first form and had to use 20x kaioken and still couldnt beat him

 

[Antvasima]

So, can anybody confirm whether or not Frieza destroyed the planet in his first form?

 

[Sheoth]

But this doesn't add up...

That would make Frieza stronger than, or on level with everyone in the Cell Saga, which is certainly not the case...

 

[SomebodyData]

But this doesn't add up...
That would make Frieza stronger than, or on level with everyone in the Cell Saga, which is certainly not the case...

Well, there is the fact that Cell and Gohan both had boosts during the kamehameha clash, not to mention back then, Pluto would have been included in the destruction.

 

[Tzula]

So, can anybody confirm whether or not Frieza destroyed the planet in his first form?

>With just his finger tip.


Hes obviously a casual planet buster.

 

[Sheoth]

Well, there is the fact that Cell and Gohan both had boosts during the kamehameha clash, not to mention back then, Pluto would have been included in the destruction.

But still, everyone before that would need to be considered very high end Large Star level, which doesn't make sense either.

 

[SomebodyData]

Hmmm isnt ssj2 a multiplier of 2? its not as apart as you think

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. I agree that this does not make sense. The possibility exists that despite that the planet Vegeta had 10x Earth's gravity, Toriyama and the animators intended it to be much closer to Earth in terms of size and mass. In which case destroying it would likely just be regular planet level.

 

[Antvasima]

Or we could go with the lower bounds of the calculation, for practical reasons, just to throw the possibility out there.

 

[SomebodyData]

Mass? I can see size (volume) but I doubt they intended equal mass (or really anything with mass to that point)

 

[Antvasima]

Well, did the calculators scale the size of the planet from what was shown in the movie, or just go with the size and mass required to get 10x Earth's gravity in real life? Dragon Ball recurrently not make any particular sense after all.

 

[SomebodyData]

Or we could go with the lower bounds of the calculation, for practical reasons, just to throw the possibility out there.

While more praticial it can also be considered the least accurate of the two......

This would mean that it might be an outlier? Or that Cell was gonna destroy more than just our Pre-Dwarf Planet Pluto Solar System?

 

[Sheoth]

@SomebodyData:

I'm fairly certain that we don't follow the official multipliers with DB stats. I could be wrong though.

@Antvasima:

But in that case, I think we would have the opposite problem in the sense that the characters would be rated too low to have such a massive power jump later on in the Cell Saga.

I think our best bet is to disregrd the powerlevel multiplier as it does not even scale linearly among characters in the first place.

 

[SomebodyData]

@SomebodyData:
I'm fairly certain that we don't follow the official multipliers with DB stats. I could be wrong though.

We don't do power levels but we did accept the kk multiplier

 

[Antvasima]

Possibly, yes, but it seems somewhat dishonest.

 

[Illuminati478]

i'd say that we should use a GBE value rather then rely on cinematic timeframes...