Four Knights of the Apocalypse/Nanatsu no Taizai Main Discussion Thread

[speedster352]

lets see meliodas negative energy has 3 scans via merlin and the snake girl
hendrickson stated hes using negative power
king stating twice meliodas is condensing raw darkness , he never once called it magic

Exactly darkness is negative energy

 

[Arnoldstone18]

lets see meliodas negative energy has 3 scans via merlin and the snake girl
hendrickson stated hes using negative power
king stating twice meliodas is condensing raw darkness , he never once called it magic

Yes because those scans are not Meliodas attacking.

When Meliodas uses it to attack tho it is a different story.

similar to this scan

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Exactly darkness is negative energy

yeah I’m not saying it isn’t but thanks for clarifying tho.

 

[Makai641001]

it has been stated that Destroyer Types and Enchantment Types use magic to manipulate darkness to attack and enchant weapons

Nothing in this panel says this.
Darkness is emitted naturally and can be moved through telekinesis it’s a part of their physiology litteraly.
Enchantment is the action to put the darkness on the blade like butter on bread.

Fire isn’t magic normally but manipulating it is known as magic and is used to attack and enchant weapons and items

Water isn’t magic but magic is used to manipulate water for attack and enchantment of weapons and items

Light isn’t magic but magic is used to manipulate light for attacks and enchantment of weapons and items

So on. You should get my point.

Irrelevant for the darkness argument + not supported

This is why Full Counter works on all attacks even darkness attacks because it has already been stated in that scan that using natural forces and darkness to attack is magic.

FC specifically counters the attack which is made out of natural elements

Which means the author consider natural elements as a type of magic in verse else Meliodas would dispell/Send back the magic that manipulate the element but not the element itself since it’s natural

FC works on lightnings that come from the non magical natural disaster earth provoke while unbalanced by their existence it also works on the non magical darkness that is sent using air pressure or telekinesis it doesn’t mean negating their magic would render incapable of attacking using darkness power or the elements they can create naturally

Where was it stated for physiology?

Darkness is a physiology trait of the demons and the vampires. They are the ones that can produce it naturally

Lol Demon bodies are not made of darkness. It’s like saying your you are made of your sweat because you excrete it. As you can see Greyroad still exists.

They are partly made out of it hence why Ark can deconstruct them.

Darkness by itself is not magic, similar to how light, water, and fire are not magic by themselves. but USING THEM TO ATTACK OR ENCHANT IS MAGIC.

Adressed this already

Full counter works on them because Nakaba defines attacks or enchantments with natural elements as magic.

So natural elements are considered as a magic type in verse but doesn’t necessarily involve magic at all

if it’s not an attack or enchantment then it is not magic.

this is why full counter works on darkness that is used for attack.

Adressed that too

Yes, darkness is produced via negative emotions/energy. Magic is when you use the darkness you created for attacks or enchantment.

Adressed it too

Yes because those scans are not Meliodas attacking.

When Meliodas uses it to attack tho it is a different story.

similar to this scan

The raw says power 力

Anyway the author uses magic for pretty much everything even Natural things as shown with the scan you used yourself
It Just means NNT works in a particular way and has it’s proper energy system

 

[Zezu1995]

Yes because those scans are not Meliodas attacking.

When Meliodas uses it to attack tho it is a different story.

similar to this scan

he was attacking with condense magic vs king , same with trillion dark

 

[Makai641001]

he was attacking with condense magic vs king , same with trillion dark

It’s not magic the japanese version talks about demon power it’s just mistranslated

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

What mental gymnastics for something so simple

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Nothing in this panel says this.
Darkness is emitted naturally and can be moved through telekinesis it’s a part of their physiology litteraly.
Enchantment is the action to put the darkness on the blade like butter on bread.

Just because you are ignoring the obvious, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Everyone can read that scan and see that darkness attacks are Destroyer magic type and darkness enchantments are Enchantment magic type.

Any other use of darkness is simply not magic unless stated.

How is this hard to understand??

Irrelevant for the darkness argument + not supported

Wrong. It’s supported.

FC specifically counters the attack which is made out of natural elements

Which means the author consider natural elements as a type of magic in verse else Meliodas would dispell/Send back the magic that manipulate the element but not the element itself since it’s natural

FC works on lightnings that come from the non magical natural disaster earth provoke while unbalanced by their existence it also works on the non magical darkness that is sent using air pressure or telekinesis it doesn’t mean negating their magic would render incapable of attacking using darkness power or the elements they can create naturally

Wrong.

Full Counter works on magic

This is consistent because Gilthunder used Lightning to attack Meliodas and Darkness based attacks are also reflected

If you were following all that I’ve been saying you will know that attacking someone with natural elements and darkness is known as destroyer magic type.

Darkness is a physiology trait of the demons and the vampires. They are the ones that can produce it naturally

This doesn’t refute anything I’ve said thus far. Using said darkness to attack someone is known as magic.

They are partly made out of it hence why Ark can deconstruct them.

Wrong.

Greyhead used his darkness as a costume that they can fit in. They are not made or partially made of darkness. Just because your physiology produces it, doesn’t mean you are made of it.

And just so we are clear. Using darkness as an outfit is not magic, but using darkness to attack and enchant is magic.

Adressed this already

Nah.

So natural elements are considered as a magic type in verse but doesn’t necessarily involve magic at all

Stop contrading yourself.

Adressed that too

Nah.

Adressed it too

Nah.

The raw says power 力

Anyway the author uses magic for pretty much everything even Natural things as shown with the scan you used yourself
It Just means NNT works in a particular way and has it’s proper energy system

魔 means magic
力 means power

guess what this means 魔力.

edit: it means magic power by the way, in case you can't figure it out. Also, you forgot to address this one.

I won’t let the author’s hard work for consistency and explanations be ruined by the fandom and their flawed interpretation.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

What mental gymnastics for something so simple

Its so dumb.

 

[Majinere566]

Do you want this evaluated?

sure

 

[ByAsura]

Using darkness in many ways is magic. Even the healing ability is referred to as dark magic.

Meliodas/Chandler can also FC Diane's rocks, King's attacks and the elements used by Holy Knights, so it's because they're based on magic.

 

[Makai641001]

Just because you are ignoring the obvious, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Just because you interpretate something doesn’t mean your interpretation supersede others

Everyone can read that scan and see that darkness attacks are Destroyer magic type and darkness enchantments are Enchantment magic type.

It being a magic type in verse doesn’t mean it’s magic as you mean it

Wrong. It’s supported.

Not really

Wrong.

Full Counter works on magic

It works on Natural elements not manipulated by nature

This is consistent because Gilthunder used Lightning to attack Meliodas and Darkness based attacks are also reflected

A Natural lightning was about to strike Elisabeth Meliodas could reflect it

If you were following all that I’ve been saying you will know that attacking someone with natural elements and darkness is known as destroyer magic type.

Ik that

This doesn’t refute anything I’ve said thus far. Using said darkness to attack someone is known as magic.

No it’s known as demon power the ability to produce and attack Using a non magical matter

Greyhead used his darkness as a costume that they can fit in. They are not made or partially made of darkness. Just because your physiology produces it, doesn’t mean you are made of it.

Grayroad*
They are hence why they body can be deconstructed by light magic

And just so we are clear. Using darkness as an outfit is not magic, but using darkness to attack and enchant is magic.

You’Ve repeated this like 20x

Nah.



Stop contrading yourself.



Nah.



Nah.

No contradiction NNT Just has his own power system

魔 means magic

It means evil or demon

力 means power

guess what this means 魔力.

Demon power in the context of the use of a terrifying demon power…
Japanese is heavily dependent on context as you know it.

edit: it means magic power by the way, in case you can't figure it out. Also, you forgot to address this one.

Darkness power

I won’t let the author’s hard work for consistency and explanations be ruined by the fandom and their flawed interpretation.

Could say the exact same thing.

 

[ByAsura]

It works on Natural elements not manipulated by nature

A Natural lightning was about to strike Elisabeth Meliodas could reflect it

That lightning bolt was far from natural. It was produced by DK's presence in Britannia, if not DK himself trying to assassinate their healer after she left Perfect Cube.

 

[Makai641001]

Using darkness in many ways is magic. Even the healing ability is referred to as dark magic.

False it says Darkness power

Meliodas/Chandler can also FC Diane's rocks, King's attacks and the elements used by Holy Knights, so it's because they're based on magic.

The elements in themselves aren’t tho but Meliodas still reflect them it would not be possible if it was Just reflecting the magic (at this point of the story the author had not introduced the system of Natural elements too)

 

[Makai641001]

That lightning bolt was far from natural. It was produced by DK's presence in Britannia, if not DK himself trying to assassinate their healer after she left Perfect Cube.

DK Presence in britannia sets of the world it’s not his spell it’s a Natural lightning coming From the sky and Meliodas could FC it

 

[ByAsura]

The elements themselves aren't magical, but they're magic and produced from these Holy Knights. Ergo, they are magical attacks.

Guila says he reflects magic attacks, not just magic itself.

Also, physical objects can be reflected if they're imbued with magic, like Chastiefol.

 

[speedster352]

False it says Darkness power

The elements in themselves aren’t tho but Meliodas still reflect them it would not be possible if it was Just reflecting the magic (at this point of the story the author had not introduced the system of Natural elements too)

Is your account verified yet?

 

[Makai641001]

The elements themselves aren't magical, but they're magic and produced from these Holy Knights. Ergo, they are magical attacks.

Guila says he reflects magic attacks, not just magic itself.

Also, physical objects can be reflected if they're imbued with magic, like Chastiefol.

But What Would happen if their magic was entirely cut off then ?

 

[Makai641001]

Is your account verified yet?

No i verified 5 mins ago

 

[speedster352]

No i verified 5 mins ago

What do you mean?

 

[speedster352]

But What Would happen if their magic was entirely cut off then ?

If you think the new 4koa scaling is good say that isn’t he nnt ap revision. It can get Meliodas and co to 6a(finally)

 

[ByAsura]

But What Would happen if their magic was entirely cut off then ?

Do you mean if, say, Diane simply deactivated Creation mid-air and let a rock drop on Meliodas?

I don't know, but I think the fact that he never just FC's non-magical debris and such is kind of telling.

If you think the new 4koa scaling is good say that isn’t he nnt ap revision. It can get Meliodas and co to 6a(finally)

Not co., just the 4KoA bros.

 

[Makai641001]

Do you mean if, say, Diane simply deactivated Creation mid-air and let a rock drop on Meliodas?

I don't know, but I think the fact that he never just FC's non-magical debris and such is kind of telling.

Not co., just the 4KoA bros.

I mean if Asta was to use his anti magic (cause Arnold is Here arguing for this sole reason to wank Asta against NNT characters) Would they be able to use magic to défend themselves ?

Their darkness is stated to be Darkness power not Dark magic even in the panel you’ve sent

 

[speedster352]

Not co., just the 4KoA bros.

Don’t the sins scales?

 

[ByAsura]

The 4KoA Sins, except Gowther, haven't done shit.

Also, the Sins are constantly at different power levels in the series, so I don't see why Meliodas would scale to everyone just by virtue of performing a feat.

 

[Zezu1995]

can we just agree, demons darkness is a demonic trait that ISNT magic BUT.. it can be used WITH magic. that makes things so simple. They still have magic power so being able to fuse magic into things shouldnt be a issue.

 

[Le'garde273]

Literally unnecessary leaks spoiler for next chapter
@Zezu1995



Sorry i only can found spoiler in Facebook,
The dude guy who share leaks in twitter deleted it again, and in the thread mangahelpers not made yet

 

[Makai641001]

can we just agree, demons darkness is a demonic trait that ISNT magic BUT.. it can be used WITH magic. that makes things so simple. They still have magic power so being able to fuse magic into things shouldnt be a issue.

The problem is the only arguments that are used to say it’s used with magic are basically mistranslations

It would also mean that they can’t create darkness tendrils to attack or even use their natural physiology related power if they had 0 magic

I’ll follow what y’all want but it’s very iffy imo

 

[ByAsura]

For reference, my point was just that a lot of powers are magic.

Britannia DK outright used Death Zero both with and without magic.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Using darkness in many ways is magic. Even the healing ability is referred to as dark magic.

Meliodas/Chandler can also FC Diane's rocks, King's attacks and the elements used by Holy Knights, so it's because they're based on magic.

exactly!

 

[ByAsura]

Makai just addressed the healing ability part. It was a mistranslation.

 

[Makai641001]

For reference, my point was just that a lot of powers are magic.

Britannia DK outright used Death Zero both with and without magic.

Using a panel that doesn’t say it’s magic hence my point being that they use power of darkness Something that is a physiology trait and doesn’t need magic to be created etc…

 

[Makai641001]

exactly!

I’m ready to follow what Asura and the others want I don’t have time to argue for now

Send feets now

 

[ByAsura]

Using a panel that doesn’t say it’s magic hence my point being that they use power of darkness Something that is a physiology trait and doesn’t need magic to be created etc…

There's still plenty of panels where it's magic, so that doesn't really matter tbh.

Zezu has the right approach.

 

[Makai641001]

There's still plenty of panels where it's magic, so that doesn't really matter.

What if all these panels where mistranslated

 

[Le'garde273]

Meliodas/Chandler can also FC Diane's rocks, King's attacks and the elements used by Holy Knights, so it's because they're based on magic.

I don't really care darkness is was magic or not, even i prefer it wasn't. But i don't remember this, can i know which chapter?
Even iirc demon king the ruler can't absorb diane rocks do it's physical matter that just giant clan manipulating through magic not really they're made by magic

 

[ByAsura]

For what specifically?

DK couldn't absorb/invert a lot of shit during that fight, like non-healing attacks from King and Ban. He couldn't simply spam Ruler because they used strategy.

I didn't mean they were made of magic, just controlled/imbued since Creation itself is a magic power. Same for Chastiefol.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Just because you interpretate something doesn’t mean your interpretation supersede others

If my interpretation uses canon source and has far less assumptions then it supersedes yours.

It being a magic type in verse doesn’t mean it’s magic as you mean it

That is exactly what it means. It is a type of magic.

It works on Natural elements not manipulated by nature

??? Who said otherwise?

I said it works on attacks that use natural elements and darkness because Nakaba has made it clear that attacks that use natural elements and darkness are know as Magic.

A Natural lightning was about to strike Elisabeth Meliodas could reflect it

ByAsura countered this

Ik that

Are you sure? Because this is a concession and you still keep arguing.

It means evil or demon
Demon power in the context of the use of a terrifying demon power…
Japanese is heavily dependent on context as you know it.

You are far from slick.

You’Ve repeated this like 20x

SO I CAN GET IT INTO YOUR HEAD.

 

[ByAsura]

I don't really care darkness is was magic or not, even i prefer it wasn't. But i don't remember this, can i know which chapter?
Even iirc demon king the ruler can't absorb diane rocks do it's physical matter that just giant clan manipulating through magic not really they're made by magic

Actually, nvm. It's stated that Rush Rock couldn't work against SD because it's physical.

 

[Le'garde273]

Saying darkness is magic kinda weird tbh, it just their blood, even dead body of red demon and grey demon has darkness inside them that was drinked by hendrickson and holy knights (hendrickson said it was blood)

Even more make no sense why they can live with zero magic and darkness is magic if you said so, making it's like undead thing. So if they're has 0 magic they will regain immo type 7?

I believe it wasn't because it just part of their physiology, but manipulating through magic making it fully magic is quite different case (and explain how destroyer type works)