Four Knights of the Apocalypse/Nanatsu no Taizai Main Discussion Thread

[ByAsura]

What do you mean?

Estarossa is 1/2 of an Archangel.

…so? Jericho only did that because she broken skin first.

Wrong, she just touched Jericho. Literally nothing Guila could do was able to stop this.

Guila quite literally powered through her attack and swiped her clean.

She melted a few icicles and is physically much stronger.

Freezing her flames just seems like good ice hax.

It's not just her flames, it's her whole body. The flames were completely powerless against the process.

Also, who says it's hax?

 

[speedster352]

Estarossa is 1/2 of an Archangel.

Wrong, she just touched Jericho. Literally nothing Guila could do was able to stop this.

She melted a few icicles and is physically much stronger.

It's not just her flames, it's her whole body. The flames were completely powerless against the process.

Also, who says it's hax?

Let me guess that make Estarossa 1.5 teratons of Tnt and his speed downscale from the archangels. I mean with the commandments his strength doubled with 2 and the third one increased his strength exponentially as he was blitzing and toying with the archangels and what changes in the scaling really?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I personally don’t agree with it, but eh, okay I guess.

 

[ByAsura]

Estarossa’s speed doesn’t downscale. Though that’s something I could do.

Estarossa doesn’t change the scaling, he’s already accounted for. What happened is that I accidentally used some obsolete scaling (Demon Mel being on par with vessel Tarmiel and Sariel) for Post-Timeskip Meliodas (who’s comparable to Estarossa) rather than the Estarossa scaling.

This doubles the rating of everyone on par with or superior to Post-Timeskip 2nd Mark/Assault Mode Meliodas, including Tristan.

 

[Majinere566]

This is strange we have a statement saying DK<Meliodas but people still contest this because of the commandments feat.

Do you even read speedster? It's actually very annoying how easily you ignored majority of my points I'll highlight the part of my argument so it can be easier to read and not to be ignored. Why do you keep on bring statements that are already contradicted to a scenario where a statement hasn't been contradicted?

Because he wasn't wrong at the time? Escanor was stronger of that version of Meliodas before he died and started to regain his old powers... and even I was to steelman this, it's as explained before Feats takes precedence over statements when it's contradicted and it's contradicted in this scenario but in the Lancelot-Tristan scenario it hasn't been contradicted as of yet

So the Meliodas statement on Escanor is valid good.

Already addressed as technically he was right and he even made the statement of himself having to get stronger. Bringing Up Meliodas statement on Escanor doesn't even work because he was correct at the time and a false equivalency.

Meliodas can gauge his strength in assualt mode and made the statement about Escanor but his assualt mode is clearly stronger

You do know that he made the statement of escanor being stronger AFTER he lost most of his powers and was currently regaining his powers?

Meliodas in the past before dying oneshot the one Escanor and toys with him after revival.

This happened before he lost his powers and peep how there's ZERO statements of Escanor being stronger then?

I am not going to keep on addressing this meli-escanor so i'll explain it in layman terms for you.

Meliodas was speaking in present terms when he mentions Escanor being stronger than him, not in the future where he gets his old form back or in the past where he had his old form so this example does not serve as a contradiction to the Tristan-Lancelot shit.

Now the Tristan statement is valid because?

Literally ZERO contradictions

He literally complimented Gawain so that she believes that she is strong.

Do you even pay attention to the chapter? the reason why he does this is to calm her down not because it's actually true or anything? it's deadass to feed her ego so she could stop crying VERY different scenario from his statement on lancelot.

Tristian even said percival is stronger than him in the same scan.

where

I saw the scan king had small wings so it’s most likely mid series sins not EOS

1. Why would the Holy Knight have an outdated data on their current enemies power?
2. Small wings king is shown in End of Series so No

would be ludicrous and contradicted by the chaos Galand and Melascula fight.

Ludicrous how? Literally nothing is contradicted what are you talking about?

 

[speedster352]

Estarossa’s speed doesn’t downscale. Though that’s something I could do.

Estarossa doesn’t change the scaling, he’s already accounted for. What happened is that I accidentally used some obsolete scaling (Demon Mel being on par with vessel Tarmiel and Sariel) for Post-Timeskip Meliodas (who’s comparable to Estarossa) rather than the Estarossa scaling.

This doubles the rating of everyone on par with or superior to Post-Timeskip 2nd Mark/Assault Mode Meliodas, including Tristan.

That makes sense since post revival Demon mark Meliodas had a PL of 90 thousand higher than 2 commandment Estarossa

 

[ByAsura]

I think you’re getting confused. Assault Mode (142k) had a PL 54k higher than 2C Estarossa (88k).

 

[speedster352]

Do you even read speedster? It's actually very annoying how easily you ignored majority of my points I'll highlight the part of my argument so it can be easier to read and not to be ignored. Why do you keep on bring statements that are already contradicted to a scenario where a statement hasn't been contradicted?


Already addressed as technically he was right and he even made the statement of himself having to get stronger. Bringing Up Meliodas statement on Escanor doesn't even work because he was correct at the time and a false equivalency.

You do know that he made the statement of escanor being stronger AFTER he lost most of his powers and was currently regaining his powers?

This happened before he lost his powers and peep how there's ZERO statements of Escanor being stronger then?

I am not going to keep on addressing this meli-escanor so i'll explain it in layman terms for you.

Meliodas was speaking in present terms when he mentions Escanor being stronger than him, not in the future where he gets his old form back or in the past where he had his old form so this example does not serve as a contradiction to the Tristan-Lancelot shit.

Literally ZERO contradictions


Do you even pay attention to the chapter? the reason why he does this is to calm her down not because it's actually true or anything? it's deadass to feed her ego so she could stop crying VERY different scenario from his statement on lancelot.

where

1. Why would the Holy Knight have an outdated data on their current enemies power?
2. Small wings king is shown in End of Series so No


Ludicrous how? Literally nothing is contradicted what are you talking about?

EOS sins don’t have Escanor especially with Rhitta. I am calling double standards on this. So Meliodas gets multiple statements about being stronger than DK even the DK confirms this and then he as strong as half power DK because of the commandments feat. Meliodas still had assualt mode 16 years ago when he one shotted Escanor but I hear you so I will leave it as that but there is no way Lancelot is way stronger than Tristan without feats.

I think you’re getting confused. Assault Mode (142k) had a PL 54k higher than 2C Estarossa (88k).

So this is not about post revival demon mark Meliodas? What do you think about the Tristan vs Lancelot debate?

 

[ByAsura]

It’s about post-revival demon mark/assault mode, I’m just saying your figures are off.

I think Tristan is weaker, but maybe just his base form.

 

[speedster352]

Do you even read speedster? It's actually very annoying how easily you ignored majority of my points I'll highlight the part of my argument so it can be easier to read and not to be ignored. Why do you keep on bring statements that are already contradicted to a scenario where a statement hasn't been contradicted?


Already addressed as technically he was right and he even made the statement of himself having to get stronger. Bringing Up Meliodas statement on Escanor doesn't even work because he was correct at the time and a false equivalency.

You do know that he made the statement of escanor being stronger AFTER he lost most of his powers and was currently regaining his powers?

This happened before he lost his powers and peep how there's ZERO statements of Escanor being stronger then?

I am not going to keep on addressing this meli-escanor so i'll explain it in layman terms for you.

Meliodas was speaking in present terms when he mentions Escanor being stronger than him, not in the future where he gets his old form back or in the past where he had his old form so this example does not serve as a contradiction to the Tristan-Lancelot shit.

Literally ZERO contradictions


Do you even pay attention to the chapter? the reason why he does this is to calm her down not because it's actually true or anything? it's deadass to feed her ego so she could stop crying VERY different scenario from his statement on lancelot.

where

1. Why would the Holy Knight have an outdated data on their current enemies power?
2. Small wings king is shown in End of Series so No


Ludicrous how? Literally nothing is contradicted what are you talking about?

(Stated to be stronger than Tristian Liones),

 

[Majinere566]

EOS sins don’t have Escanor especially with Rhitta. I am calling double standards on this. So Meliodas gets multiple statements about being stronger than DK even the DK confirms this and then he as strong as half power DK because of the commandments feat. Meliodas still had assualt mode 16 years ago when he one shotted Escanor but I hear you so I will leave it as that but there is no way Lancelot is way stronger than Tristan without feats.

I will say this one last time one scenario is contradicted, The other isn't

Occams Razor dismisses your claim anyways

 

[speedster352]

It’s about post-revival demon mark/assault mode, I’m just saying your figures are off.

I think Tristan is weaker, but maybe just his base form.

What figures? Demon mark post revival Meliodas has a PL of 90 thousand and 2c Estarossa has a power level of 88 thousand. Also it’s confirmed that Estarossa achieved assualt mode so does that add anything? I agree it’s too soon to think demon mark Tristan<Lancelot

 

[Majinere566]

I'll change Lancelot rating from a likely to a possibly, possibly makes the most sense

 

[speedster352]

I will say this one last time one scenario is contradicted, The other isn't

Occams Razor dismisses your claim anyways

Dismisses what exactly? Like I said the EOS didn’t have Escanor and there and the manga scan shows Escanor with Rhitta

 

[speedster352]

I'll change Lancelot rating from a likely to a possibly, possibly makes the most sense

Why?

 

[ByAsura]

Firstly, you said 90 thousand higher than Estarossa. Is it 90k higher (which isn’t possible), or 90k?

Secondly, please give citations for PR Demon Mel having a 90k power level.

Third, where is it confirmed? Sure, he looks similar, but that’s not remotely enough.

 

[Majinere566]

Dismisses what exactly?

Your claim of lancelot not being stronger

I said the EOS didn’t have Escanor and there and the manga scan shows Escanor with Rhitta

1. Why would the Holy Knight have an outdated data on their current enemies power?

 

[Zezu1995]

i still find it odd that a human/fairy is stronger than a demon/angel/human hybird lol

 

[Majinere566]

i still find it odd that a human/fairy is stronger than a demon/angel/human hybird lol

In lancelot defense he's the prince of the Lake and probably got some crazy amps by the lady of the lake

 

[speedster352]

Firstly, you said 90 thousand higher than Estarossa. Is it 90k higher (which isn’t possible), or 90k?

Secondly, please give citations for PR Demon Mel having a 90k power level.

Third, where is it confirmed? Sure, he looks similar, but that’s not remotely enough.

That’s how his demon mark works since he went from 32 thousand to 56 thousand about a 30 percent difference. So 60 thousand plus 30 thousand is 90 thousand The grand cross game calls it assualt mode Estarossa.

Dismisses what exactly? Like I said the EOS didn’t have Escanor and there and the manga scan shows Escanor with Rhitta

Also the scan referring to Lancelot strength wouldn’t it be mid series sins since there is Escanor with Rhitta?

 

[ByAsura]

That’s how his demon mark works since he went from 32 thousand to 56 thousand about a 30 percent difference. So 60 thousand plus 30 thousand is 90 thousand

That’s not proof, that’s you assuming it should be scalar to any form of Meliodas. We have no confirmation of that.

The grand cross game calls it assualt mode Estarossa.

Scans?

Anyway, I don’t think it’d change anything considering that his previous form was something unique to him.

 

[Majinere566]

How strong is base helbram?

 

[ByAsura]

He’s stated to be on par with a Holy Knight captain (I can’t remember the exact chapter, but it’s the one where he shows his true form). However, it’s worth noting that he’d be stronger before his death since Hendrickson says (I believe in chapter 86) the performance of reanimated people is lowered upon each resurrection.

 

[speedster352]

That’s not proof, that’s you assuming it should be scalar to any form of Meliodas. We have no confirmation of that.

Scans?

Anyway, I don’t think it’d change anything considering that his previous form was something unique to him.

Here Also it doesn’t matter demon mark is a 2x amp anyway Power Level = 90000 you were saying?

 

[ByAsura]

I’m saying we have no reason to assume Demon Meliodas’ power level increase in one form is scalar in every single form. Especially since, by your logic, Post-Purgatory Demon Meliodas would only have a power level 30,000 points higher than Post-Purgatory Base Meliodas.

 

[speedster352]

I’m saying we have no reason to assume Demon Meliodas’ power level increase in one form is scalar in every single form. Especially since, by your logic, Post-Purgatory Demon Meliodas would only have a power level 30,000 points higher than Post-Purgatory Base Meliodas.

That’s fine he is still relative to 2c Estarossa and sariel and tarmiel with human vessels

 

[speedster352]

That’s not proof, that’s you assuming it should be scalar to any form of Meliodas. We have no confirmation of that.

Scans?

Anyway, I don’t think it’d change anything considering that his previous form was something unique to him.

I thought you said assualt mode was a 2x multiplier?

 

[ByAsura]

I said it’s (potentially) 2x stronger than Meliodas’ 2nd Demon Mark.

 

[speedster352]

I said it’s (potentially) 2x stronger than Meliodas’ 2nd Demon Mark.

Okay so wouldn’t that also apply to Assualt mode Estarossa

 

[ByAsura]

Not unless we have more details on the amp mechanics. It could just be vaguely stronger than his previous form (which doesn’t remotely resemble 2nd Demon Mark).

For lack of better options, let’s put it this way; Super Saiyan 1 is a 50x multiplier, and SS2 is 2x multiplier from SS1. This doesn’t mean SS2 is 2x stronger than Grade 2 and 3, which are stronger than SS1.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Not unless we have more details on the amp mechanics. It could just be vaguely stronger than his previous form (which doesn’t remotely resemble 2nd Demon Mark).

Do we take Info from the game as Canon to the Manga?

 

[ByAsura]

Not to my knowledge, but form titles does seem like it’d be an exception.

 

[speedster352]

Do we take Info from the game as Canon to the Manga?

Actually Nakaba is the one who makes the designs and provides input for the skills

Not to my knowledge, but form titles does seem like it’d be an exception.

Not unless we have more details on the amp mechanics. It could just be vaguely stronger than his previous form (which doesn’t remotely resemble 2nd Demon Mark).

For lack of better options, let’s put it this way; Super Saiyan 1 is a 50x multiplier, and SS2 is 2x multiplier from SS1. This doesn’t mean SS2 is 2x stronger than Grade 2 and 3, which are stronger than SS1.

In other words?

 

[ByAsura]

In other words, it’s only a multiplier by comparison to a (seemingly) different form and we shouldn’t use it here.

 

[Makai641001]

Examples for the speed tho?

Most of the ennemies can’t dodge their attack when FCd Asura knows more about this

 

[speedster352]

In other words, it’s only a multiplier by comparison to a (seemingly) different form and we shouldn’t use it here.

So does 3c Estarossa/mael affect the scaling chain? Mael was clearly stronger than 3c Estarossa. What about 4c Estarossa? Since Meliodas and Zeldris absorbed the Ten Commandments does that make them 5 to 10 times stronger since it’s agreed that Ten Commandments amp power two fold?

 

[Makai641001]

Have a strong "hope". Resurrected by that "hope" from the blow of Chaos-Gallan? !! Percival ... One of the (Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse). The magical power of his companion thinks of him

Gyazo

gyazo.com

Hope resurrected him against Ironside too

 

[ByAsura]

Since Meliodas and Zeldris absorbed the Ten Commandments does that make them 5 to 10 times stronger since it’s agreed that Ten Commandments amp power two fold?

It’s not agreed. Literally the only evidence was that one Commandment gave a 2x amp, so people were claiming that each one should be an exponential 2x amp.

 

[Makai641001]

Firstly, you said 90 thousand higher than Estarossa. Is it 90k higher (which isn’t possible), or 90k?

Secondly, please give citations for PR Demon Mel having a 90k power level.

Third, where is it confirmed? Sure, he looks similar, but that’s not remotely enough.

I think the author partcupated in his design in 7DS GC and named him AM Estarossa not sure about that tho

 

[speedster352]

It’s not agreed. Literally the only evidence was that one Commandment gave a 2x amp, so people were claiming that each one should be an exponential 2x amp.

But then wouldn’t they at least be 5x stronger?