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First Baby, THEN Infinite Zamasu.
- Thread starter Nullflowerblush
- Start date
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Im of the idea that they can reduce opponents to atoms or less, but only so due to overwhelming AP vs durability, ( which is pretty much what happens IRL provided enough energy is avaible) however nothing ever suggests they can do it to someone just as durable, and so adding matter manipulation is disingenuous or misleading because it sells the idea they can do it to someone in a similar tier which is demonstrably false.
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How does it not work within the setting, when attacks preventing souls from going to the afterlife have already been established in Dragon Ball?
Nullflowerblush
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Abilities that have explicitly trapped souls in a limbo is an established concept. Destroying the body destroys the body, and the soul is free to move on.
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Atomization isn't one of those attacks
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Which attacks are you talking about?
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That’s wrong, since Demon Clan members killing people prevent them from going to the afterlife
Are you really trying to claim that if King Piccolo killed a human through destroying their body completely, then that human would go to the Afterlife and not limbo?
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Those killed by the Demons in DB are unable to go to the otherworld and remain stuck in limbo.
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 8,954
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Through an ability unique to the Demon Clan that explicitly traps the soul in an earthly purgatory.
You are missing the point. Destroying the body completely (see Frieza, see Cell, see Majin Buu, see Nappa, see Cooler, etc.) has never been a method of preventing the soul from ascending.
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I was pointing out to him that there is a precedent for preventing souls from reaching the Otherworld in the series, yes.
Those characters have never claimed to have the ability to have a method of preventing the soul from ascending. The series has never alluded to them having it, either.
It did for Baby, and he did claim that his attack would prevent the soul from ascending.
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 8,954
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Those characters had their bodies destroyed completely.
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okay?
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Doesn't sound like any of what Baby is doing here.
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You said that you'd agree if his explanation worked in the setting of Dragon Ball, I showed you that the precedent for soul ascension prevention in DB has already been made.
If you don't think that Baby is proclaiming that his attack will deny rebirth/being sent to the afterlife by literally saying 'So much so that you can never return to life again!' Then what exactly does that sound like to you?
If your argument is that atomization doesn't normally prevent soul ascension in Dragon Ball, then I'd like to point out that Baby specifically says 'So much so that..'. Showing that whatever his attack will be doing to Goku's body will somehow be so much so more potent that it will cause soul ascension prevention.
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He literally states it does?
Do you not get that it's a fictional ability
DivineAura44
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Baby is literally going against that.
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I'd agree if his explanation worked in the setting of Dragon Ball, but since Baby is not of the Demon clan his explanation does not work in the setting of Dragon Ball. Not to mention the explanation itself isn't even about soul destruction, it's about trapping souls somewhere else, which doesn't at all line up with anything Baby was saying.
Again, this is just textbook hyperbole.
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Why do you think the Demon clan are the only ones allowed to affect souls in the setting of Dragon Ball??
Why do you think soul abilities have to be 1 to 1 to work in Dragon Ball?
This all just seems like cognitive dissonance on your part. You've mentally accepted that such things don't exist in the verse, didn't know that it already does with the Demon clan, and now are trying to argue that attacks that affect the soul have to be 1:1 to work in the setting of Dragon Ball and making arbitrary rules, which are nothing but head canon.
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hey could you tag some staff? this is going for a little too long
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It's not that I think Demon Clan members are the only ones who are allowed to affect souls, we know the dragons, Kais, and even Goku can interact with souls. However, we've never established in the GT timeline the destruction of souls without going to the afterlife and killing the souls again. We have no reason to assume Baby, so far removed from all these characters who can interact with souls just happens to possess the ability to target them cause he's talking shit to Goku before attempting to kill him. There is no precedent in the series to destroy souls through just destroying the body enough.
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We're not 'assuming' that he can
You are the one assuming he can't, even though everything in that scene points that he can, especially when contextualized with what Goku said previouslyI disagree on the basis that it is not a boast, but an explanation.
Baby Vegeta in that scene was not just exclaiming how hard he'd pwn Goku with his attack and stroking his ego, he was explaining why Goku would not be sent to the Afterlife after he'd said the following:
Now that we're on the subject however, what could Baby's attacks denying rebirth/being sent to the Afterlife add to his profile?
This is literally appeal to tradition fallacy
I don't think there's much to discuss between us anymore without going in circles
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hmm
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Baby's statement isn't talking about a special ability to stop the soul from crossing over.
He literally says that he'd reduce Goku to such little particles, that he won't be able to come back, but we know that doesn't work, physical destruction doesn't affect the soul unless the person has a special ability or property of stopping the soul from crossing. Therefore baby's premise was wrong
He literally says that he'd reduce Goku to such little particles, that he won't be able to come back, but we know that doesn't work, physical destruction doesn't affect the soul unless the person has a special ability or property of stopping the soul from crossing. Therefore baby's premise was wrong
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DivineAura44
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You have to prove that.
Nullflowerblush
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DivineAura44
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Can you quote the exact part you are trying to show me?
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You said that the point about physical destruction not affecting the soul needed to be proved, welp, that entire scene proves it, remember how cell and frieza died?
DivineAura44
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Atomization, what about it?
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No difference, cell had all of its cells destroyed, and frieza was atomized, yet their souls are perfectly fine, which proves that the complete desteuction of the body doesn't affect the soul all that much if at all
DivineAura44
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Are you claiming that what happened to Cell and Frieza are remotely similar to what is claiming he'll do?
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Yeah
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